The Necro thread strikes again...but for good reason! James Jacobs promised to put out a 1-20L Sandpoint urban adventure path in yet another necro thread I just checked out! I mean, he totally swore before the Lady of Graves herself!
Shadow Under Sandpoint AP? is the thread I'm referring to (in General Discussion). So it's been, like, two and a half years he's been feverishly working on it...prolly comin' out any day now...
...it would be just silly to have anyone but Wes do Caliphas...
This needs to happen! A 64-page book on Caliphas. I'd be as hyped about that as the rest of geekdom is about Star Wars VII!
I say 64 pages because, like the toothy bag, I'm quite happy with the 64-page format for city/region sourcebooks.
One problem that the Vigilante class has is the lack of a suitable milieu to exist in. I mean what every major gaming system has always had at some point: a fully detailed city. Not a gazetteer but a complete volume including a sand box adventure, tie-ins to other adventures, a website to submit home brewed modules, memorable npcs, a spin-off adventure path (not included of course) and appendices with urban specific spells, feats, new skill usages, a few monsters and a prestige class or two. Yep. A 120$ book. Here's where a Paizo staff member says, "Well, that's just not in our plans." It should be. Don't need a Bestiary 6. Definitely don't need a Pathfinder 2 (are you bozos insane?). You need Absalom: City of Ultimate Adventure.
I wouldn't want a fully detailed city product. I don't want to know what each and every door opens to. 99.9% of that information would be superfluous to whatever game I ran.
I love the way Dresden Files does city creation. Perhaps Paizo should come up with a way for the players to come up with the details of the city, whether it is a free-form, player driven story system like Dresden Files, or a whole bunch of tables for random creation. I personally am going to try a combination of Dresden Files, Johnstoning and Ben Robbins Kingdom.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One problem that the Vigilante class has is the lack of a suitable milieu to exist in. I mean what every major gaming system has always had at some point: a fully detailed city. Not a gazetteer but a complete volume including a sand box adventure, tie-ins to other adventures, a website to submit home brewed modules, memorable npcs, a spin-off adventure path (not included of course) and appendices with urban specific spells, feats, new skill usages, a few monsters and a prestige class or two. Yep. A 120$ book. Here's where a Paizo staff member says, "Well, that's just not in our plans." It should be. Don't need a Bestiary 6. Definitely don't need a Pathfinder 2 (are you bozos insane?). You need Absalom: City of Ultimate Adventure.I wouldn't want a fully detailed city product. I don't want to know what each and every door opens to. 99.9% of that information would be superfluous to whatever game I ran.
Disagree wholeheartedly. I need a big ass city box with 4-5 books in it, floppy or not, and big ass maps that go with it. I'll gladly pay $120+ for it, and I'll have mad fun in there for freaggin' years. Just make sure you put encounter tables, dungeons, and a bunch of surface locales (all mapped out with encounters). Oh, and encounter frequency. And encounter chance by the hour. And lots of info on taverns, stores, guilds, associations, city defenses, teleportation-safe zones, antimagic zones, etc. Also first thing you see/encounter when you reach one of the city gates (number of guards, levels, ranks, forms of address, city heraldry, law posted on signs at the gate, which hours the gates are opened, can a traveler fly in legally after gate is closed i.e. airspace regs?)
Hey don't joke with stuff like that. Not cool man...
How do you know I'm joking? Oh, you checked my facts. Not cool, man...
I remember that Saltmarsh... need a jog on the noggin to make the connection though. :)I always like the section of DMG II from DnD 3.5 that detailed Saltmarsh. It might not have been hundreds of pages long but it did a good job of detailing a city with several shadowy elements for you to make a campaign around.YAY!
As the one who wrote that section, it's always cool to see folks remember it! I quite love how it turned out, and wish more folks knew about it. :-)
Now that I think about it, I used Saltmarsh as the battleground for a campaign-ending mega encounter a long time ago. I'd forgotten. Good times.
Creative Director
|
You wrote that section?! That's awesome, I'm using that section and the one right before it that details how to make a settlement from the ground-up to help make me make a detailed Skelt for my PCs. DMG II is my favorite 3.5 book because of those sections.I always like the section of DMG II from DnD 3.5 that detailed Saltmarsh. It might not have been hundreds of pages long but it did a good job of detailing a city with several shadowy elements for you to make a campaign around.YAY!
As the one who wrote that section, it's always cool to see folks remember it! I quite love how it turned out, and wish more folks knew about it. :-)
Cool! I wrote the city construction rules too, and used them to build Saltmarsh. Glad you found them useful! :)
|
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If I remember correctly the DMG version of Saltmarsh had that sign with the mirror on it too.Now that I think about it, I used Saltmarsh as the battleground for a campaign-ending mega encounter a long time ago. I'd forgotten. Good times.I remember that Saltmarsh... need a jog on the noggin to make the connection though. :)I always like the section of DMG II from DnD 3.5 that detailed Saltmarsh. It might not have been hundreds of pages long but it did a good job of detailing a city with several shadowy elements for you to make a campaign around.YAY!
As the one who wrote that section, it's always cool to see folks remember it! I quite love how it turned out, and wish more folks knew about it. :-)
Wouldn't surprise me. It's one of my favorite real-world bits of historical trivia about my home town, Point Arena.
I've been running scenarios in Absalom for the past month using the Pathfinder Society guidebooks and the Guide to Absalom to decent effect. It makes my mouth water that much more for a nice fat fully detailed Absalom box set.
I was glancing through the Hell's Rebels AP, and the over the span of the AP which takes place entirely in one city (Kintargo/Cheliax) there is lots of details about the personalities and locations. It may take some work to put it into a easy to reference catalog, but I'm very very impressed with this AP.
I am new to Pathfinder, but I would love a Ptolus type Absalom book.
I loved Ptolus. Erik Mona wrote about the campaign from time to time in the editorial pages, and to me, it was the greatest selling point. I knew I had to have it. And thus, when I did buy it, I devoured it. I enjoyed that campaign so much, I finally had 'my Waterdeep.'
I was waiting to see how many people would mention Ptolus.
I am new to Pathfinder, but I would love a Ptolus type Absalom book.I loved Ptolus. Erik Mona wrote about the campaign from time to time in the editorial pages, and to me, it was the greatest selling point. I knew I had to have it. And thus, when I did buy it, I devoured it. I enjoyed that campaign so much, I finally had 'my Waterdeep.'
I was waiting to see how many people would mention Ptolus.
My gaming group did an epic Ptolus campaign; that's the kind of product I'd like to see from Paizo. Oh wait, with even MORE! Probably only Absalom could support a sourcebook + AP of that size. But a Sandpoint box set would be a great way to start off.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There are at least 6 cities that would make a great city to do a 200-300 page book on in my opinion:
1. Katapesh - The city you can buy anything in makes a great place filled with all races and all manner of delights and shops.
2. Absolom
3. Korvosa - Since Varisia is filled with all manner of fun and APs, this could be an interesting one.
4. Elidir - Could be fun since it is in the jungle and near all things lost (including empires).
5. Oppara - A city of decadence and old empires, this place could be a place filled with intrigue and back door deals.
6. Sothis - Since the Ruby Throne wants to regain it's former glory, this could be a fun Egypt like capital city to expand on.
I would love to see you guys do these over Sandpoint, because there is the potential to do expansion books like Freeport and would allow for Paizo to make lots of money doing these. Think of these as the Waterdeep like cities of this world:)
Each district or two of Absalom would have different authors. That would make the project more manageable. But it seems that what we need is for Mr. Jacobs to start pounding the table for a city hardcover every year in thee schedule. These would be content and interest generating machines, imho.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As soon as I get my next paycheck I'll support the Blight Kickstarter by Frog God Games. Can't resist me a cool-sounding city campaign. It's going to have more pages than the Slumbering Tsar even, with a fully detailed city and an adventure to Pathfinder L 10 (on the slow track, with accommodation for medium advancement if the DM wishes). I'm running the Sword of Air right now and it's a lot of fun. Hopefully this book will avoid the editorial errors I'm finding but it's no big deal. No reason Paizo can't do something like this. Spin-off soft covers, fan-generated content on zee interwebs, an AP separate but based in the city, ALSO an included adventure, each district of say, Absalom with a different author maybe. Oh, wait, am I repeating myself? Sorry for the necro thread!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would throw all of my money at city guidebooks. (Groceries? Pfft. Peanut butter exists for a reason.)
Maybe that's just my own personal love for cities and urban campaigns talking, though.
I love a good city guide too!
So far, my favorite softcover Campaign Setting books are Guide to Korvosa, City of Strangers, and Magnimar: City of Monuments.
I also have Kobold Press' Zobeck Gazetteer.
I've been running a semi-homebrew campaign set in Korvosa for the past 15 months, so city guides are very helpful! I've pulled in and/or created a bunch of stuff for my version of Korvosa.
I would throw all of my money at city guidebooks. (Groceries? Pfft. Peanut butter exists for a reason.)
Maybe that's just my own personal love for cities and urban campaigns talking, though.
Burnt sourdough toast with peanut butter and strawberry jam...aahhh. Yeah, I would throw my money at a big Pathfinder city book/box set. If it's never going to happen I wonder if there'd be interest in doing an online contributor city compatible with Pathfinder.
I'm also supporting the Blight - which looks like it's going to have a very in-depth writeup of a city.
...
A horribly squelchy, nasty sort of city, perhaps, but a city all the same. XD Certainly worth considering if you want a city that isn't all sunshine and roses - and let's face it, PCs don't usually spend a lot of time vacationing and sightseeing in bright, trouble-free locations anyway.
Yeah my gaming groups' plan is to finish Sword of Air, then do Iron Gods, then Hell's Rebels, then Hell's Vengeance, then whatever Paizo is putting out re: the two aforementioned parties squaring off; and then I will personally GM a Blight campaign of mindblowing proportions. We're set for like threeish years.
I'd love a really detailed Kaer Maga, especially with lots of maps (multi-level) and illustrations. :D
Sandpoint is pretty detailed. As are Korvosa and Magnimar. And by this time next year, Kintargo is gonna be pretty detailed. Westrcrown's pretty well covered as well.
A big hardcover book of a city would indeed be awesome, but fitting that into a schedule is tricksy.
Sandpoint seems a bit small for superhero action. It would be like placing Batman and the Justice League in Smallville.
|
Creative Director
|
Sandpoint seems a bit small for superhero action. It would be like placing Batman and the Justice League in Smallville.Sandpoint is pretty detailed. As are Korvosa and Magnimar. And by this time next year, Kintargo is gonna be pretty detailed. Westrcrown's pretty well covered as well.
A big hardcover book of a city would indeed be awesome, but fitting that into a schedule is tricksy.
Who said anything about superheros?
Who said anything about superhero?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Who said anything about superheros?Sandpoint seems a bit small for superhero action. It would be like placing Batman and the Justice League in Smallville.Sandpoint is pretty detailed. As are Korvosa and Magnimar. And by this time next year, Kintargo is gonna be pretty detailed. Westrcrown's pretty well covered as well.
A big hardcover book of a city would indeed be awesome, but fitting that into a schedule is tricksy.
That's pretty much how the vigilante class has been sold to us. The various vigilante subclasses smell of various comic book archetypes. That was one of the reasons people are looking for a city box...to provide an environment for vigilante action.
This is probably the closest you'll get for a little while.
Huzzah!!!!!
8 days until the kickstarter ends...
This is probably the closest you'll get for a little while.Huzzah!!!!!
8 days until the kickstarter ends...
Mr. Pett-your creation may become the quintessential Pathfinder City, as I read it can be placed in any campaign world that needs a little...spooky.
Now is the Time!!http://paizo.com/products/btpy9j6p?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Ultima te-Intrigue
|
While i love the idea of a very detailed city book or box (Sandpoint is too small with 1500 pop, Kaer Maga with 8000 is about right), what i really would like is a VARISIA BOXED SET!
With a big laminated Varisia map, maps and 64 to 32 (or even 16) page books of Riddleport, Magnimar, Korvosa, Janderhoff, Kaer Maga, Sandpoint, Turtleback Ferry, Viperwall, Wolf's Ear, Runeforge, Celwynian etc...
Absalom could have a different author for each district plus the island itself. An included AP that goes to say, 13th L would take about 250 pages. In a 600 page book that would make the level of city detail still greater than Bard's Gate. Or a box set with 9 soft covers + maps!
|
|
Who said anything about superheros?Sandpoint seems a bit small for superhero action. It would be like placing Batman and the Justice League in Smallville.Sandpoint is pretty detailed. As are Korvosa and Magnimar. And by this time next year, Kintargo is gonna be pretty detailed. Westrcrown's pretty well covered as well.
A big hardcover book of a city would indeed be awesome, but fitting that into a schedule is tricksy.
Why not try a city like: Oppara, Solku, Azir or another key capital? You can always update Absolom from the 3.5 material. Or even Katapesh City.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm going to be at PaizoCon this year and I'm going to try and gauge the interest of doing a collaborative third party/fan-driven city for Pathfinder.
|
|
Sandpoint is pretty detailed. As are Korvosa and Magnimar. And by this time next year, Kintargo is gonna be pretty detailed. Westrcrown's pretty well covered as well.
A big hardcover book of a city would indeed be awesome, but fitting that into a schedule is tricksy.
A city boxed set would be my preference, and go a long way in selling me the concept of the Vigilante and other less crunchy character options (i.e. black markets, heroes of the street, city stat blocks, etc.)
There's a lot of stuff that has gone in development that will probably never see light of day in a lot of homecampaigns, as these things require player buy in and character feat/trait investments.
If a fully detailed city would make use of all that stuff, it would put a lot of my books to use...
|
My current desire hardcover desire for the Pathfinder setting is a guide to the Great Beyond, collecting and expanding on the assorted planes info currently scattered across seven 64-page softcover books and three 32-page books.
But a giant city hardcover would be pretty awesome. The 64-page guides to Absalom, Korvosa, and Magnimar are nice, but a 200+ page hardcover would be sweet.
The catch is finding a place for it, as that'd be done by the Campaign Setting team not the RPG team, so it couldn't replace a standard hardcover. A campaign setting hardcover does seem to be released every other year though, but I imagine the follow up to Inner Sea Gods/Races is already planned and being written.
With the announcement of Starfinder, a project like this will probably never make the schedule; at least not for a number of years. A shame. Wait! Absalom Station Hardcover? That could get me into a space opera game...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's only at 64 pages, but Parsantium: City at the Crossroads is pretty cool!
|
|
At the risk of repeating myself, I'm gonna go ahead and say it: for the setting to fully gel we'll need a city box at some point. Right now, the PFCS stuff is amazing sure, but it's too decentralized to make the setting truly matter in the minds of most players I encounter. And thus those books are often relegated to the GM shelf, never really looked at by the players (i.e. some really don't care about those and stick to the companions).
You end up with parties sometimes that suffer from a syndrome similar as that who sprouted in the aftermath of the "Complete Humanoids Handbook" back in 2nd edition. In our case, we can have a fully human party, but they'll often be from completely different ethnicities with little provided in the way of 'reasons'.
A city box solves a lot of problems and if done right, provides some explanations for some stuff, such as a foreign district, elven artsy 'getto', or even underground gnomish mushroom halls. Yes, it sometimes artificially 'overly caters' to all PC types, but it provides depth and background, NPCs, shops, street maps, and you thus have an easier time as a GM achieving that feel of a bustling, living place.
I spent two years running a campaign set in the planar city of Galisemni in the Maelstrom, with visits to Axis, the city of Brass, etc. Love that sort of settings for campaigns.
