Good Player person in my group but loves being the powerful fighting hero (GM needs Help)


Advice

1 to 50 of 160 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

My Pathfinder Brethern, I need some help after wracking my brain. I have been GMing Pathfinder for 19 months now (coming from D&D 3.5) and I finally have fielded a pretty great group. My players consist of:
1. The helpful team player.
2. The zealous RPGer
3. the teen hack slasher (my son).
4. The comic/role playing half distracted older player
5. The quiet but helpful older new convert from D&D
6. The friendly, funny, chatting Power Gaming, I'm the superman optimized fighting type battle machine leader.

My group has great synergy, are great to run and love having fun. However, I have a problem with my player 6. He is hooked on the warpriest and maximizing his character to get the most combat impact and win the combat feats/powers out of his character. He sees nothing wrong with this. However, some of the players are seeing that I am trying to amp up the CR of the adventure path and feats of the monsters and anti hero NPCs to make formats more even against the party. Their characters aren't able to take the monsters like he does.and have voiced their concern about him always wanting to play the powerful fighting types.

His response is that I should include more skill base role playing solve it situation that he won't have the skills for, use the hostage situations where the bad guys threaten with innocent hostages to make his character back down from violence to beat them and other similar situations. He isn't seeing anything wrong with his characters being superman like when they get to 7th level or higher. And, when I countered after a session saying I should use warpriest said to offset his power, he balked saying he might survive, but the other characters won't.

What should I do to keep the APs challenging, but not so crazy the party will die? I hate to see his warpriest end battles all the time in one round. And I don't know if his suggestions will solve the issues. He is a good friend and a good person. It's just his maximizing power play takes the fun out of an AP or adventure.


A Warpriest, no matter how optimized, isn't a one-round ender unless you have a single enemy. They do fight like crazy and have some solid spells though, so I can see how it might be tough.

After a certain point it becomes impossible to challenge the strong guy without wiping the weaklings. Tell him that and give him the ultimatum:

Make a weaker character or help the rest of the party make stronger ones.


What is so strong about him?


4 people marked this as a favorite.
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Tell him that and give him the ultimatum:

The absolute fastest way to flip someone's switch is to issue them an ultimatum.

I can tell you that if I were issued such an ultimatum, I'd walk. It wouldn't be out of a refusal to toe the party line or not, it would be an issue of respect, or lack thereof.

Discuss the issue with your player, brainstorm ideas together for solving the problem locally, and implement those ideas until you find what works.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Are you sure you aren't just reacting to the word "ultimatum"? Because the choice seems fairly reasonable, barring the other players not wanting to have to "power up".


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd say add more (but not stronger) enemies to your fights. The big weakness of melee powerhouse characters is that even if they auto-hit for a million damage, they can only kill the enemies that are in melee range. A couple minions in between the warpriest and the boss will do a lot to slow him down without massively increasing the danger to other characters.

Not to mention that with six players in an AP (which are usually balanced for four), you should probably be pumping up the encounter numbers a bit anyway.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Ryzoken wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Tell him that and give him the ultimatum:

The absolute fastest way to flip someone's switch is to issue them an ultimatum.

I can tell you that if I were issued such an ultimatum, I'd walk. It wouldn't be out of a refusal to toe the party line or not, it would be an issue of respect, or lack thereof.

Discuss the issue with your player, brainstorm ideas together for solving the problem locally, and implement those ideas until you find what works.

See? The powergamer left, problem solved.


A few questions, what AP? Do you have a general idea of his build? What are some of his successfull tactics right now?

I went through something similar in Wrath of the Righteous with a Paladin that crushed moat everything. Since it was a home game I was bumping HP, adding a mix of range and caster mooks, using terrain rules to make things more tactical.

Silver Crusade

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No, problem not solved, you just cost someone the chance to play Pathfinder because you don't agree with the way they play. The correct way to do it is to try and work it out like civilized people, and THEN, if they don't want to work it out, kick them out. If I like playing sorcerers, should I be told not to play one because the others don't like them?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Tell him that and give him the ultimatum:

The absolute fastest way to flip someone's switch is to issue them an ultimatum.

I can tell you that if I were issued such an ultimatum, I'd walk. It wouldn't be out of a refusal to toe the party line or not, it would be an issue of respect, or lack thereof.

Discuss the issue with your player, brainstorm ideas together for solving the problem locally, and implement those ideas until you find what works.

See? The powergamer left, problem solved.

i like the way you think


Val'bryn2 wrote:
No, problem not solved, you just cost someone the chance to play Pathfinder because you don't agree with the way they play. The correct way to do it is to try and work it out like civilized people, and THEN, if they don't want to work it out, kick them out. If I like playing sorcerers, should I be told not to play one because the others don't like them?

Neither of the options in my ultimatum was "leave".

It's not that the party dislikes Warpriests, it's that the Warpriest is so powerful, the game is either a cakewalk for him or a deathtrap for the party.

Try reading before you post.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Okay, I did misread your post. It's just that many times when people on here talk about issuing ultimatums, the choice is "play my way or leave". I was wrong on this one, and actually DO agree with you now that I did more than glance at your post. My apologies.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Are you sure you aren't just reacting to the word "ultimatum"? Because the choice seems fairly reasonable, barring the other players not wanting to have to "power up".

As a general rule, ultimatums never go over well. There's a big difference between "Hey, here are two ideas I had for how to fix the problem we've been having, which do you like better?" and "Pick one of these two options Or Else."


I run into this issue a lot. The players in my group are very much min/max players and go for sheer power. I have handled this in a couple of ways. First is the option I like least, you can fudge some of the monsters. Make them resistant to whatever class your power player makes (immune to divine energy, etc). It works, but can be hard to keep flow. The second option is to play off their personality. I had an npc that was cursed with an item trick and "gift" the item to the player in question. This let me nerf the character, but still felt to in line with the role play aspect. Overall, everyone had a good time, and the player felt that it was a consequence to his choices instead of a punishment. As a GM i try to make the game fun for all the players. Good luck, sounds like he is open to creative ideas.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Tesailion wrote:
What is so strong about him?

He has cleave through, he gets his divine bonus on top of AC, Attack and damage. He also channels through his weapon. And, he took the feat that allows him DR/2 for every enemy he slays in that round (which stacks pretty high). He also has the Strike Back feat.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
DominusMegadeus wrote:

After a certain point it becomes impossible to challenge the strong guy without wiping the weaklings. Tell him that and give him the ultimatum:

Make a weaker character or help the rest of the party make stronger ones.

That's a good solution, assuming the rest of the party want to have stronger characters, which is not always the case.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Are you sure you aren't just reacting to the word "ultimatum"? Because the choice seems fairly reasonable, barring the other players not wanting to have to "power up".

Kobold, I agree. However, two of the players have tried to talk about it with him twice (gently) and I have twice with the,. I have shared that I sought some advice on it. His response is that he is just trying to maximize and make the best character he can.

Today, one of the players joked that the party may pull back from him during battle (if I have beefed up the encounters for him) and he joked well that will just be more experience afterward for me.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Cleave Through just lets you take a 5 ft. step before Cleaving.

Best case scenario, just like Great Cleave, he gets a single attack against every character on the board. And that's an ABSOLUTE BEST CASE if you have a bunch of dudes clustered together.

Unless his attacks are strong enough to drop everything in a single hit (something I'm doubtful of), this shouldn't be an issue. The DR thing (which I have no clue what Feat is) should never trigger.

Conductive weapons eat through your Channel/Fervor like crazy (which a Warpriest gets very few of already), and Channel Smite only functions once a round, so neither of these should be causing an issue.

And Strike Back only triggers if you Ready an attack...which means he's both giving up his ability to full attack, AND his ability to Cleave that round (which is generally already worse than full attacking a lot of the time anyway).

I'm not seeing a problem here unless you don't understand how his abilities work.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Chengar Qordath wrote:

I'd say add more (but not stronger) enemies to your fights. The big weakness of melee powerhouse characters is that even if they auto-hit for a million damage, they can only kill the enemies that are in melee range. A couple minions in between the warpriest and the boss will do a lot to slow him down without massively increasing the danger to other characters.

Not to mention that with six players in an AP (which are usually balanced for four), you should probably be pumping up the encounter numbers a bit anyway.

Great idea:)

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

If combat prowess is your measure of character balance, than the game will always be crazy out of wack. Pathfinder allows for a massive range. You can have two first level characters, one has 20 AC, +5 to hit for 2d6+10 damage, another with 8AC and -1 to hit for 1d4-1. You can call one a powergamer and the other terrible at building a character, but both are perfectly legal options.
I've sat at tables where a "powergamer" dominated the table, killed everything and was the only one enjoying the game. I've sat at other tables where that person killed everything just the same, but walked away grumbling they didn't get to do anything and everyone else had a blast and never rolled a single attack.
The numbers in the game are never going to be even from player to player, but players decisions and actions should drive the narrative, not the numbers. As long as players get to do cool stuff, they'll have fun. I find players complaining about one another is not actually due to the strength of the numbers on their character sheet, but because they are hogging screen time (whether they actually are or just are perceived to because their accomplishments are given more merit).


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Question: What level are these characters currently and what level did they start at?

If they started at level one and built them up legally, then player 6 should be allowed to play his warpriest as he sees fit. If you're having to up the CR to keep up with him then do that. Have the villains/NPCs recognize that he is the one leading the charge and target him first and foremost.

Question two: What are you doing to up CR? Are you adding more minions or are you just upping the CR of one big bad?

If you're just making the big bad stronger, then the other Pcs will get lost in the shuffle, whereas if you up the CR through adding minions, then the other PCs will still be effective against the appropriate CR monsters.

Dark Archive

The DR thing is actually probably Deadly Juggernaut.

If he's clearly got more system mastery than the rest of the group, help him bring everyone up to his level. He's probably building optimally while everyone else isn't. Sure, Skill Focus (Perception) sounds useful, but it's not going to help all that much.

All APs are tuned notoriously low (with a handful of TPK encounters sprinkled in) so unless we can see his sheet, he's probably just playing a Warpriest how a Warpriest should be played.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Tell him that and give him the ultimatum:

The absolute fastest way to flip someone's switch is to issue them an ultimatum.

I can tell you that if I were issued such an ultimatum, I'd walk. It wouldn't be out of a refusal to toe the party line or not, it would be an issue of respect, or lack thereof.

Discuss the issue with your player, brainstorm ideas together for solving the problem locally, and implement those ideas until you find what works.

See? The powergamer left, problem solved.

What unhelpful, trollish drivel.

He was right you know. Issuing ultimatums is a great way to drive wedges into otherwise healthy groups. If you start viewing tablemates as the enemy, it's time to find another game to play.


Chengar Qordath wrote:


Not to mention that with six players in an AP (which are usually balanced for four), you should probably be pumping up the encounter numbers a bit anyway.

Yes. I was going to say the same. You should already be adjusting CR for APL+1 due to six players.


Seranov wrote:

The DR thing is actually probably Deadly Juggernaut.

If he's clearly got more system mastery than the rest of the group, help him bring everyone up to his level. He's probably building optimally while everyone else isn't. Sure, Skill Focus (Perception) sounds useful, but it's not going to help all that much.

All APs are tuned notoriously low (with a handful of TPK encounters sprinkled in) so unless we can see his sheet, he's probably just playing a Warpriest how a Warpriest should be played.

I think we definitely need to see his sheet. My guesses are either he's got something else going on under the hood jacking hs single hit damage sky-high, this AP is tuned down REALLY low, or the GM is letting him Great Cleave the same target multiple times.

Unless this is Wrath of the Righteous and he's got Mythic damage boosts coming out his ears along with Improved Cleaving Finish and mythic Cleave or some such, Cleave shouldn't be problematic.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
FuriousManwich wrote:

A few questions, what AP? Do you have a general idea of his build? What are some of his successfull tactics right now?

I went through something similar in Wrath of the Righteous with a Paladin that crushed moat everything. Since it was a home game I was bumping HP, adding a mix of range and caster mooks, using terrain rules to make things more tactical.

The AP is Carrion Crown. He is committed to stopping the Whispering Way. His Tactics are using his Falchion with his warpriest powers, plus cleave, greater cleave and Strikeback.


Triune wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Tell him that and give him the ultimatum:

The absolute fastest way to flip someone's switch is to issue them an ultimatum.

I can tell you that if I were issued such an ultimatum, I'd walk. It wouldn't be out of a refusal to toe the party line or not, it would be an issue of respect, or lack thereof.

Discuss the issue with your player, brainstorm ideas together for solving the problem locally, and implement those ideas until you find what works.

See? The powergamer left, problem solved.

What unhelpful, trollish drivel.

He was right you know. Issuing ultimatums is a great way to drive wedges into otherwise healthy groups. If you start viewing tablemates as the enemy, it's time to find another game to play.

Did you read what the ultimatum was? Because neither of the options was "go away ur a jerk". If the WP doesn't lower his optimization or help the rest of the party get on his level, the AP becomes a joke. It can be fixed one of three ways, but the third way was not brought up because telling people to leave is never the first thing you try.


I have a character like this currently. He's worked out a way to give himself a butt load of negative hit points and act normally through them. He has upwards of 300 hp at 14th level.

One suggestion that works great: go Core Book only. Tell everyone playing at the beginning that if its not in the Core Book, its not in the game without your approval ahead of time. No leveling and then "Oh, can I take this?" They want it, they gotta give you days to consider it. That cuts out 95% of my headaches. Pathfinder has oodles of abilities that can interact to make MAJOR power characters, so you have to control what they take, big time.

Might be too late for your game and for that I am sorry.

In the end, if hes nice and cool, come to him directly and tell him you're having a problem with his playing style and others aren't having fun. If hes as nice as you say he won't want others to have a bad time. Talk to him about nerfing his character or changing him. Heck, maybe even give him a "going out in a blaze of glory" ending, he may like that.

If he can't or won't change for the good of 6 other people's enjoyment, then hes being a self centered jerk and to hell with him.

Dark Archive

Wait, what level are they that he's using Strike Back?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Val'bryn2 wrote:
No, problem not solved, you just cost someone the chance to play Pathfinder because you don't agree with the way they play. The correct way to do it is to try and work it out like civilized people, and THEN, if they don't want to work it out, kick them out. If I like playing sorcerers, should I be told not to play one because the others don't like them?

I agree. But, the players also need to see how the choices affect their group and teammates. All power games do. But, you are right we need to work towards a reasonable resolution of it all. I like the guy personally. He is a great friend, dad and human being. It's just power play challenges me as a GM to work to a resolution that doesn't Penalize the group for his choice to be Superman Warpriest.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Muddman72 wrote:

I have a character like this currently. He's worked out a way to give himself a butt load of negative hit points and act normally through them. He has upwards of 300 hp at 14th level.

One suggestion that works great: go Core Book only. Tell everyone playing at the beginning that if its not in the Core Book, its not in the game without your approval ahead of time. No leveling and then "Oh, can I take this?" They want it, they gotta give you days to consider it. That cuts out 95% of my headaches. Pathfinder has oodles of abilities that can interact to make MAJOR power characters, so you have to control what they take, big time.

Might be too late for your game and for that I am sorry.

In the end, if hes nice and cool, come to him directly and tell him you're having a problem with his playing style and others aren't having fun. If hes as nice as you say he won't want others to have a bad time. Talk to him about nerfing his character or changing him. Heck, maybe even give him a "going out in a blaze of glory" ending, he may like that.

If he can't or won't change for the good of 6 other people's enjoyment, then hes being a self centered jerk and to hell with him.

...You are aware the vast majority of the most powerful stuff in PF is in the CRB, right? Like, every book since then gives options, but generally not things that are even close to as powerful. You're pretty much guaranteeing that they'll either end up completely useless or super powered, depending on the class and other stuff they pick.


DominusMegadeus wrote:
Triune wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Tell him that and give him the ultimatum:

The absolute fastest way to flip someone's switch is to issue them an ultimatum.

I can tell you that if I were issued such an ultimatum, I'd walk. It wouldn't be out of a refusal to toe the party line or not, it would be an issue of respect, or lack thereof.

Discuss the issue with your player, brainstorm ideas together for solving the problem locally, and implement those ideas until you find what works.

See? The powergamer left, problem solved.

What unhelpful, trollish drivel.

He was right you know. Issuing ultimatums is a great way to drive wedges into otherwise healthy groups. If you start viewing tablemates as the enemy, it's time to find another game to play.

Did you read what the ultimatum was? Because neither of the options was "go away ur a jerk". If the WP doesn't lower his optimization or help the rest of the party get on his level, the AP becomes a joke. It can be fixed one of three ways, but the third way was not brought up because telling people to leave is never the first thing you try.

*starts to respond*

My inside voce: "Forget it, Ryzo. It's the Paizo forums, our kind ain't welcome here."

Me: Thanks, me. *walks away*

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Chris Glade wrote:
I run into this issue a lot. The players in my group are very much min/max players and go for sheer power. I have handled this in a couple of ways. First is the option I like least, you can fudge some of the monsters. Make them resistant to whatever class your power player makes (immune to divine energy, etc). It works, but can be hard to keep flow. The second option is to play off their personality. I had an npc that was cursed with an item trick and "gift" the item to the player in question. This let me nerf the character, but still felt to in line with the role play aspect. Overall, everyone had a good time, and the player felt that it was a consequence to his choices instead of a punishment. As a GM i try to make the game fun for all the players. Good luck, sounds like he is open to creative ideas.

Thanks Chris. I try to do the same as a GM. I want my sessions to be fun, memorable, challenging and enriched with roleplay.

The Exchange

Someone asked what level you guys were playing because if he has Strike Back you guys are probably 11+. If so that would put you at part 5 of 6ish on this Adventure Path and I probably wouldn't worry about him being strong in combat anymore. Just adjust the fights for party size and finish up the AP at this point is probably the easiest for everyone.


Since you said you're running Carrion Crown, the Paizo AP's generally offer a variety of challenges and encounters that will afford all of the players a chance to shine as their abilities become relevant to that encounter. You seem to feel this is not happening, so I would encourage you to look at some third party publishing materials to supplement your AP and fill in the blanks where you need an extra challenge.

If you don't have a copy, it is worth picking up Tome of Horrors Complete for PFRPG as it has a myriad of monsters that are unfamiliar to the average and even hardcore gamer. Find one that works against his abilities - such as incorporability or something to that affect as it will give the others a chance to be effective and drop it in an empty room or use it as a random encounter.

In TOH, you will also find creatures that look like one type but are really another which are great to throw against players. For example, The Godsmouth Heresy uses skull spiders from TOH which look like undead spiders but are really vermin that live inside empty skulls like a hermit crab. The PCs think they're undead so they start channeling and the like - to no effect because they're not what they think they are.


Flynn Greywalker wrote:
FuriousManwich wrote:

A few questions, what AP? Do you have a general idea of his build? What are some of his successfull tactics right now?

I went through something similar in Wrath of the Righteous with a Paladin that crushed moat everything. Since it was a home game I was bumping HP, adding a mix of range and caster mooks, using terrain rules to make things more tactical.

The AP is Carrion Crown. He is committed to stopping the Whispering Way. His Tactics are using his Falchion with his warpriest powers, plus cleave, greater cleave and Strikeback.

Hmm.. Just a theory, does he have the rules for readying an action correct?

Specifically, he can only ready one action per round and it uses his standard action. If he uses Strike Back then he has given up his attacks for the round in order to make one attack.

He may also be trying to combine Strike Back and Cleave in order to make two attacks when someone attacks him. This does not work as Strike back allows a single attack to be readied, and Cleave is a specific standard action.

Lastly, be sure he is using the readying rules, not the attack of opportunity rules - i.e. he can only use Strike Back once per round - not once per enemy attack.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I love how these threads always end up with the claims that Overpowered X isn't overpowered because PFS/modules/Adventure Paths are just undertuned. 'Overpoweredness' is relative and, in the case of Paizo content, this character is overpowered.

Mechanics chicanery aside, I suggest you work this guy to find some kind of happy medium. Buffing encounters to challenge an individual character always ends in tragedy.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

From what I've read here, you've already talked about his playstyle with him, as well as your other players.

What I would want to know is: What's the gaming situation like in your area? Are there other groups around? Maybe he can find one more to his playstyle? Maybe you and your other players can help with that?

My group has a player who has an uncanny ability to powergame by instinct alone. That being said, there are several glaring exceptions to his awesomeness that put him in the position of 'well, I can't cause damage on a crit, I'm not doing anything this turn'. I have another who has a nasty habit of making disparaging sarcastic comments. Not a great combination. Eventually I had to type up a list of actions (Move to flank, aid another, total defense, etc...) with a brief rules summary and gave both a copy. Now my sarcastic player instead suggests, "Why not take a five foot discretionary step to flank with the rogue?" instead of making nasty comments, and the first player... still gets bummed at not dealing (what he considers) enough damage every turn, but still has a good time without functioning as a one man army.

I have also introduced the first player to another DM with a bit higher power player curve. I suspect I'll be losing a player at the end of the AP (or perhaps book), but I'll likely be gaining one from the other group who wants more of his character backstory brought into the game (more my style of GMing).

So, a temporary solution coupled with a GM switch might just get you a handy short and long term solution. Or not. What IS the gaming scene like in your area?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Rynjin wrote:

Cleave Through just lets you take a 5 ft. step before Cleaving.

Best case scenario, just like Great Cleave, he gets a single attack against every character on the board. And that's an ABSOLUTE BEST CASE if you have a bunch of dudes clustered together.

Unless his attacks are strong enough to drop everything in a single hit (something I'm doubtful of), this shouldn't be an issue. The DR thing (which I have no clue what Feat is) should never trigger.

Conductive weapons eat through your Channel/Fervor like crazy (which a Warpriest gets very few of already), and Channel Smite only functions once a round, so neither of these should be causing an issue.

And Strike Back only triggers if you Ready an attack...which means he's both giving up his ability to full attack, AND his ability to Cleave that round (which is generally already worse than full attacking a lot of the time anyway).

I'm not seeing a problem here unless you don't understand how his abilities work.

Ryjin, on the Strike Back and on some of the conductive channel I didn't. As you know as a GM, we learn a lot about the feats and combos as we go.

He does about in the 20-36 points on his first hit if he doesn't critical. He also has two levels of Bloodrager with his Warpriest. And a Falchion does 1.5 Strength when used with two handed combat. And he is an Aasimar. So, he has flight without wings as a rolled optional class trait (which I witnessed him roll).

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Muddman72 wrote:

I have a character like this currently. He's worked out a way to give himself a butt load of negative hit points and act normally through them. He has upwards of 300 hp at 14th level.

One suggestion that works great: go Core Book only. Tell everyone playing at the beginning that if its not in the Core Book, its not in the game without your approval ahead of time. No leveling and then "Oh, can I take this?" They want it, they gotta give you days to consider it. That cuts out 95% of my headaches. Pathfinder has oodles of abilities that can interact to make MAJOR power characters, so you have to control what they take, big time.

Might be too late for your game and for that I am sorry.

In the end, if hes nice and cool, come to him directly and tell him you're having a problem with his playing style and others aren't having fun. If hes as nice as you say he won't want others to have a bad time. Talk to him about nerfing his character or changing him. Heck, maybe even give him a "going out in a blaze of glory" ending, he may like that.

If he can't or won't change for the good of 6 other people's enjoyment, then hes being a self centered jerk and to hell with him.

Muddman, I appreciate your thoughts and it is for now. In the future APs, I will only allow split class for Core Rulebook and Advanced Players Guide Classes.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ragoz wrote:
Someone asked what level you guys were playing because if he has Strike Back you guys are probably 11+. If so that would put you at part 5 of 6ish on this Adventure Path and I probably wouldn't worry about him being strong in combat anymore. Just adjust the fights for party size and finish up the AP at this point is probably the easiest for everyone.

We are there level wise. Ashes at Dawn (5 of 6 is where we are currently).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Flynn Greywalker wrote:


Ryjin, on the Strike Back and on some of the conductive channel I didn't. As you know as a GM, we learn a lot about the feats and combos as we go.

He does about in the 20-36 points on his first hit if he doesn't critical. He also has two levels of Bloodrager with his Warpriest. And a Falchion does 1.5 Strength when used with two handed combat. And he is an Aasimar. So, he has flight without wings as a rolled optional class trait (which I witnessed him roll).

That should alleviate a lot of the problem. Strike Back is an interesting Feat, but not an overly powerful one so long as you keep the rules for Readied actions in mind (They take your Standard, meaning stuff like Vital Strike and Cleave and whatnot don't stack).

Likewise, 20-36 points of damage shouldn't be a big deal in Carrion Crown. Just from a quick lookthrough of Ashes at Dawn, powerful enemies have close on 125-150 HP, and a lot of the minions have roughly 50-70.

Since he can only deal that 20-36 damage to one target once per round, he's actually not contributing a whole lot (though Cleave is excellent against minions).

Also keep in mind that Conductive takes double the uses for his Fervor, which he only has probably 10 of per day (6 base +4 for 18 Wis), so 5 daily uses of Conductive.

This also cuts into his more powerful use of Fervor, the Swift action buffing, so every time he does that he cuts his uses of Conductive by one as well.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

So it looks like you have a group of two people who don't care much about combat, two people who care a bunch about combat, a support type, and a newbie. ...how is one guy focusing on combat a problem again? It looks like you're divided at least 50/50 on combatants.

Let me guess, 2 was one of the people that talked to him and asked him to tone it down? Ugh. Alright, so, with all due respect and no offense intended, your players are self-centered idiots. The powergamer isn't matching the optimization level of the group, the hack-slasher should be asking the powergamer for help, and the roleplayer and the comic need to realize that nothing is going to get done without someone actually good at fighting. Especially doing an adventure path. All the roleplay in the world doesn't mean a thing without mechanics to back it up.

Warpriest is, unfortunately, somewhat of a self-centered class. Fervor to swift cast spells requires that only the warpriest benefit. So the powergamer can't actually do much to spread the magic love. That being said 20-36 damage is like base level damage dealer at level 11. Power attack with a two-handed adds 9, plus 2 or 3 for the weapon, they only need 22 STR. Go up to level 12 and they only need 18 STR. If 20-36 damage a hit is too much the rest of your players are just underpowered.

The suggestions he made to shut him down are perfectly appropriate and probably what the other players are looking for. Making a character who cranks damage through the roof is trivially easy. I think I can get a mounted charger up to 100 a hit by level 10. And that's like three feats, nothing special. In addition there's misdirection, delaying tactics, stealth, anything but a straight up fight. It's really that easy. The player has built to do lots of damage in a straight up fight. Let them do that. Just don't make that the end-all be-all of the game.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, what? 30ish damage a round at level 11 is hardly what I'd call overpowering. Especially since he's splitting his attacks between various targets and/or making only one attack a round vs. something outside his reach.

Exactly what is the rest of your group doing that this guy is supposedly making them look bad? More and more it sounds less like he's absurdly strong and just that everyone else is just really, really poorly built.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Thank you all for your candor and well thought opinions. I took good notes and you gave me good food for thought on what I need to tweet to try and improve things. I will decline on confronting him to change or leave. I know it's and option I used with the Rules Nazi disrupter I used to have (he was above and beyond the rules lawyer type). My power gamer/maximized is a good guy, encourager, and over positive helpful person. His characters need some better understanding on his part from what you guys shared.

Please add more input if you like or others who read this. GMing is a constant learning experience and I want to grow and improve where I can to be a strong and memorable story teller.


You aren't answering the questions about the level or where you started. If you all played through the AP from level one why is this only now becoming a problem?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Seranov wrote:

Yeah, what? 30ish damage a round at level 11 is hardly what I'd call overpowering. Especially since he's splitting his attacks between various targets and/or making only one attack a round vs. something outside his reach.

Exactly what is the rest of your group doing that this guy is supposedly making them look bad? More and more it sounds less like he's absurdly strong and just that everyone else is just really, really poorly built.

Possibly. He critical hits a lot with his improved critical and keen falchion.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Brother Fen wrote:
You aren't answering the questions about the level or where you started. If you all played through the AP from level one why is this only now becoming a problem?

Brother Fen, most of the group (including him) started in AP 1 (Harrowstone) at 2nd level and went up from there. So he has built it through experience of the AP along with my improving the CR of some encounters or the number of opponents. He killed two Kytons last AP that were CR10 in two rounds.

Dark Archive

Flynn Greywalker wrote:
Seranov wrote:

Yeah, what? 30ish damage a round at level 11 is hardly what I'd call overpowering. Especially since he's splitting his attacks between various targets and/or making only one attack a round vs. something outside his reach.

Exactly what is the rest of your group doing that this guy is supposedly making them look bad? More and more it sounds less like he's absurdly strong and just that everyone else is just really, really poorly built.

Possibly. He critical hits a lot with his improved critical and keen falchion.

Even 60 damage a round is only so-so by that point. Especially since he could, instead of messing around with the Cleave feats and Strike Back, be full attacking every round and REALLY pumping out damage. I'd say he's actually already in a pretty reasonable spot, it's just your other players need to get boosted up to his level.

If he's a decent guy like you say, he'll probably have no problem helping out.

-e-

Also, as far as making enemies tougher: throw the Advanced template on everything and give them full HP instead of the average for their HD. It'll make them tougher, but not overwhelmingly so.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Bob Bob Bob wrote:

So it looks like you have a group of two people who don't care much about combat, two people who care a bunch about combat, a support type, and a newbie. ...how is one guy focusing on combat a problem again? It looks like you're divided at least 50/50 on combatants.

Let me guess, 2 was one of the people that talked to him and asked him to tone it down? Ugh. Alright, so, with all due respect and no offense intended, your players are self-centered idiots. The powergamer isn't matching the optimization level of the group, the hack-slasher should be asking the powergamer for help, and the roleplayer and the comic need to realize that nothing is going to get done without someone actually good at fighting. Especially doing an adventure path. All the roleplay in the world doesn't mean a thing without mechanics to back it up.

Warpriest is, unfortunately, somewhat of a self-centered class. Fervor to swift cast spells requires that only the warpriest benefit. So the powergamer can't actually do much to spread the magic love. That being said 20-36 damage is like base level damage dealer at level 11. Power attack with a two-handed adds 9, plus 2 or 3 for the weapon, they only need 22 STR. Go up to level 12 and they only need 18 STR. If 20-36 damage a hit is too much the rest of your players are just underpowered.

The suggestions he made to shut him down are perfectly appropriate and probably what the other players are looking for. Making a character who cranks damage through the roof is trivially easy. I think I can get a mounted charger up to 100 a hit by level 10. And that's like three feats, nothing special. In addition there's misdirection, delaying tactics, stealth, anything but a straight up fight. It's really that easy. The player has built to do lots of damage in a straight up fight. Let them do that. Just don't make that the end-all be-all of the game.

Bob you make some good points. With him critical hitting every other round, he does lots to damage the opponents. There is a Half Orc Cavalier, Human Cleric of Pharasma, Drow Rogue, Half-Elf Rogue who is a ranged weapons expert and a Arcanist. The Arcanist is the new convert to Pathfinder that needs to learn his characters abilities better.

1 to 50 of 160 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Good Player person in my group but loves being the powerful fighting hero (GM needs Help) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.