Will save for silence?


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Is the Will save for silence for if you cast it on an unwilling creature, for a creature that enters the area of affect and doesn't want to be silenced, or both?


Only if the spell is cast on a creature. Casting on an object is the "none" portion of the save.

Entering into a Silence area that already exists is the "complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area" portion of the spell description. That portion contains no mention of saving throws so the "none" still applies here.

You only get mention of saving throws during the portion that talks about casting it on a creature.


DM Blake is correct, however a common house rule is to give a Will save to each creature affected by a silence spell in any way.
Otherwise, silence is better than most applications of antimagic field.


Gilarius wrote:
Otherwise, silence is better than most applications of antimagic field.

I wouldn't go that far.

Silence won't negate/suppress ongoing spells, nor will it affect magic items (although activating command word items is prevented). All it really does is shut down all verbal spellcasting, which is most spellcasting, though spells with no Verbal component and spells cast with the Silent Spell feat still work - those wouldn't work in antimagic.

Still, you're right, shutting down most spellcasting with a low-level no-save spell is pretty harsh.


Most of the time the caster can easily avoid the area if the spell is not cast on him.


Well "avoiding" a zone that you can't see the edges of or know where it was centered may be difficult.

It isn't really "harsh" it just is a good way to use magic to stop casters for a bit. This is helpful because it makes them really squishy and swords like that in a victim.


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thorin001 wrote:
Most of the time the caster can easily avoid the area if the spell is not cast on him.

Replace 'most' with 'some' and omit the 'easily', and I agree with you. It's too dependent on the situation variables to make those claims - particularly about the space available.

Is silence a good spell? Yes. Is it still good with a Will save? Yes, but not guaranteed.

A deaf oracle is the only caster not greatly affected by Silence. At any level, expecting casters to have several 'Silent' spells available is unlikely unless the GM is metagaming to prevent Silence being useful.

At higher levels, shutting an enemy caster down, without stopping your own buff spells and magic weapons, is extremely potent. It doesn't stop your own casters either, since they will generally have given the Silenced Pebble to the fighter, who can follow the enemy caster, keeping him/her inside the silent field.

This is why I think it needs a Will save.

In a 'real' world, casters would have researched an 'Anti-Silence' spell which they would then use all the time as a pre-fight buff. Without that, Silence is too effective.


Silence is only 1round/level anti magic field is 10min/level.
I know that most fights are finished in 3-4 rounds but still.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Also, silence is a full-round casting time, so enemies have a chance to see it coming and disrupt it.

If you cast it before combat, it becomes much more difficult to coordinate timing and party members start taking the huge deaf initiative penalty. Plus it has a short duration.


ryric wrote:

Also, silence is a full-round casting time, so enemies have a chance to see it coming and disrupt it.

If you cast it before combat, it becomes much more difficult to coordinate timing and party members start taking the huge deaf initiative penalty. Plus it has a short duration.

*1 round casting time

a full-round cast is complete on your turn and requires a ready action to interrupt


PRD wrote:


Casting Time

...
A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

...

I'm pretty sure any damage you take between starting the spell and finishing it next round requires the caster to make a concentration check, 10 + damage dealt + spell level, to complete the spell. Readied actions are not required.


I'm calling out the distinction between Casting Time" "1 full-round action" and "1 round".

Silence is the latter and falls under the rule you quoted.
If a spell is the former it completes the turn it is started and would require a ready to interrupt.


Archaeik wrote:

I'm calling out the distinction between Casting Time" "1 full-round action" and "1 round".

Silence is the latter and falls under the rule you quoted.
If a spell is the former it completes the turn it is started and would require a ready to interrupt.

Are there any spells that call have "1 full-round" instead of "1 round" as a casting time?

I am 99.9% sure there are not any that say "1 full-round", which is why people use the terms interchangeably for spells, so it really does not matter at least until Paizo makes such a spell, or there is actually one now that I don't know about.


wraithstrike wrote:
Archaeik wrote:

I'm calling out the distinction between Casting Time" "1 full-round action" and "1 round".

Silence is the latter and falls under the rule you quoted.
If a spell is the former it completes the turn it is started and would require a ready to interrupt.

Are there any spells that call have "1 full-round" instead of "1 round" as a casting time?

I am 99.9% sure there are not any that say "1 full-round", which is why people use the terms interchangeably for spells, so it really does not matter at least until Paizo makes such a spell, or there is actually one now that I don't know about.

A spontaneous caster that applies a metamagic feat (other than quicken) to a spell with a standard action casts it as a full-round action. It still completes on their turn and requires a ready action to interrupt, but they can't move more than a 5 foot step.


1 full round spells

and for some reason, at least one I saw with a different search parameter doesn't hit on this, Stolen Light


Asking for a will save versus silence is just asking to make magic users even better.

Something they don't need. It's avoidable, preventable, dismissed and stopped. It doesn't also require saves.

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