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This has to be one of the more messed up areas I've read about in a respectable RPG. The mutations, the skinless pus-oozing monsters, the fact that the planet is alive, the loving place *shudder*
Part of me wants to know more and go adventuring there, part of me wishes I hadn't even read about it. This is how I could see horror working in Pathfinder, even the bravest adventurers would be afraid to be on a distant world so messed up.
Kudos to Paizo for this one.
"The loving place"? That sounds icky.
I wasn't expecting it at all.
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James Sutter is amazing. They should let him write more books.
I actually like the loving place, it is so different then every other place were the monsters just want to kill you not make....
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Distant Worlds is so good I bought it as book rather than PDF. Mr Sutter should be unleashed more often.
I would like to see a Hodge, Pratt, Logue, Sutter collaboration.
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I hope we get to visit Aucturn in the kinda sorta confirmed adventure path that deals with an alien incursion from the Dark Tapestry.
We need a good, honest to god H.R. Giger horror adventure path dag nabbit, and Aucturn is perfect for it. Carrion Crown didn't even come close to scratching that itch for me, and Iron Gods only sort of.
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Ehhh ...
I just finished reading Distant Worlds, and any time it talked about sex (or sometimes just women's outfits) I had the distinct impression that I was reading, like, 30's pulp sci-fi or something. Like whoever wrote it had missed the boat big time, and was unironically writing for an imagined audience of sexually-repressed 15-year-old boys, about stuff like fifty foot tall women in loincloths fighting amazon dinosaur riders. Or "a plaec wat maeks u raep ppl, an then thay hav babbies an go aan raep ppl too!!1"
I'm sure there are ways of exploring these topics that aren't cringe-tastic, at least for me. But I really feel like it shows that this was one of their earlier efforts.
Contributor
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A: It's actually not that old - it's only from 2012.
B: You should see the lashunta art from Second Darkness... they get steadily more clothed with every appearance.
C: Cussune is on the right track, I think.
That said, paging Dr. Sutter, Dr. James Sutter.
I have been disappointed about the steadily more clothed Lashunta art over the years.
That is the point it was based on the pulp stuff from the 30's to 50's.
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Thanks so much for all the kind words about Distant Worlds! I'm really proud of that one. :) (And as for unleashing me more often—it's not so much a matter of leashing as having been focused on novels and comics, but I'm looking to dive back into another game book soon!)
Regarding gender issues in Distant Worlds: I apologize to anyone who felt put off by the book. A couple of notes:
*The lashunta were indeed based off a 30s pulp trope, at least where the art is concerned, though I attempted to subvert it somewhat by making them a powerful matriarchy focused primarily on scholarship. (They are most definitely *not* damsels in distress!)
*Yes, The Loving Place is rape-y, and it's a choice that I'm deeply conflicted about now. At the time, it was inspired by the fact that a lot of Giger-esque body horror has that "unnatural birth" element, which is inherently nonconsensual. In the years since I wrote the book, though, I've come to understand just how harmful/triggering any rape/nonconsenual elements can be for readers, and these days I'm firmly of the opinion that unless a story *must* involve rape, it probably shouldn't. So again, apologies to anyone blindsided by it, and I hope that you can skip over that paragraph and appreciate the rest of the book.
*There's not really a lot of space to devote to gender when you're detailing entire planets in a few pages, but outside of the pulp homage of the lashunta, I really tried to mess with conventional gender roles/sexuality/etc. If you want something a bit more interesting, I'd direct you toward the seven-gendered maraquoi on Marata (p. 42) or the genderless ukara battleflowers on Triaxus (p. 34).
Ultimately, all art needs to stand on its own, but I hope that adds some insight into my process!
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Personally I don't think fiction should sanitize away all trigger issues. I think there should be tools in the toolbox provided also for those DMs and tables who want to deal with issue X or Y, just as long as the vast majority of the content presented is safe for all.
But that's just me personally, and it's easy for me to say. And for a company concerned about alienating potential customers it probably makes sense to try to be as inoffensive as possible.
Maybe there should be a separate Golarion Triggered product that uncomfortable topics could be sequestered into. :b
Indeed. Comparing "I completed this AP" t-shirts, " I survived the Aucturn Awakening without getting egged " is so much cooler than " I kilt the boss, again. " ;)
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Personally I don't think fiction should sanitize away all trigger issues. I think there should be tools in the toolbox provided also for those DMs and tables who want to deal with issue X or Y, just as long as the vast majority of the content presented is safe for all.
Couldn't agree more. If Paizo is going to try to wipe away anything that someone might find offensive, they might as well shut down now. It doesn't matter how blandly inoffensive you try to make something...there WILL be SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE who takes offense to it.
If you make it TOO blandly inoffensive, that someone will be me.
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Couldn't agree more. If Paizo is going to try to wipe away anything that someone might find offensive, they might as well shut down now. It doesn't matter how blandly inoffensive you try to make something...there WILL be SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE who takes offense to it.If you make it TOO blandly inoffensive, that someone will be me.
It's not like TSR and WotC didn't produce mostly blandly inoffensive sanitized content for the entirety of their publishing history without a) shutting down b) getting you to take offense to it :)
Are there any modules or scenarios involving Aucturn?
On it? Not that I know of. However, those involving The Last Theorem (mostly in Osirion, I believe it was) are loosely connected, and would serve as a good starting point for a GM busy homebrewing an adventure.
Ooh, Thanks, Kalindlara!
Thanks, Rednal!
I am reading Edgar Rise Burroughs Jon Carter of mars books at the moment.
Acturn reminds me of the Mars described in these books
That's not a coincidence. :) Akiton has always been our Pulp Mars analogue, and Castrovel our Pulp Venus (though we've admittedly try to add things to both that aren't particularly pulp inspired, just to mix things up).
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There's a very long way between "these days I'm firmly of the opinion that unless a story *must* involve rape, it probably shouldn't" and "wipe away anything that someone might find offensive". I don't think you need to worry.Personally I don't think fiction should sanitize away all trigger issues. I think there should be tools in the toolbox provided also for those DMs and tables who want to deal with issue X or Y, just as long as the vast majority of the content presented is safe for all.Couldn't agree more. If Paizo is going to try to wipe away anything that someone might find offensive, they might as well shut down now. It doesn't matter how blandly inoffensive you try to make something...there WILL be SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE who takes offense to it.
If you make it TOO blandly inoffensive, that someone will be me.
Yeah, don't worry that we're going to go all care-bear. You know about the all-evil adventure path we just announced, right? :)
And there are definitely great, important stories out there that *require* triggering content in order to function. I just always take a hard look at such things these days, and ask myself, "Is this actually adding to the story, or is it just grimdark or—worse—intended to be titillating?" (Frankly, asking yourself "what function does this serve?" is a pretty good approach to ALL elements of a story, controversial or otherwise.)
But it's probably obvious by now that I like to shake the morality pinata and see what comes out. For instance, that's a lot of what THE REDEMPTION ENGINE is about for me: the question of consent with regard to alignment, and whether ends justify means. (And, you know, cool outsiders. :)
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I just always take a hard look at such things these days, and ask myself, "Is this actually adding to the story, or is it just grimdark or—worse—intended to be titillating?"
Thank you for that James. Authorial restraint is the best way to keep the fiction from turning into self-parody, and given the amount of horror (and especially Lovecraft) influence in Pathfinder, it would be all too easy for Pathfinder to turn into PathFinder 40K if the writers aren't careful.
I absolutely love distant worlds and I'm really hoping one day to get more about the cool planets in Golarion's solar system! very excellent work! You hit all sorts of pulp fiction stuff i like!
I absolutely love distant worlds and I'm really hoping one day to get more about the cool planets in Golarion's solar system! very excellent work! You hit all sorts of pulp fiction stuff i like!
If you're looking for "cool" planets, there's more on Triaxus in the Reign of Winter AP. ;)
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That's not a coincidence. :) Akiton has always been our Pulp Mars analogue, and Castrovel our Pulp Venus (though we've admittedly try to add things to both that aren't particularly pulp inspired, just to mix things up).I am reading Edgar Rise Burroughs Jon Carter of mars books at the moment.
Acturn reminds me of the Mars described in these books
James, thank you for taking the time to reply to my post,
Myles Crocker
There is nothing wrong with titillation but yeah I agree about sometimes there is too much grimdark.
While I certainly think we should be wary about too much rape content (another thread discussing Thuldrin Kreed is a good example of this), I personally think it can be okay if done rather sparingly, and the Loving Place was just so awful that I am pleased with its inclusion.
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Ehhh ...
I just finished reading Distant Worlds, and any time it talked about sex (or sometimes just women's outfits) I had the distinct impression that I was reading, like, 30's pulp sci-fi or something. Like whoever wrote it had missed the boat big time, and was unironically writing for an imagined audience of sexually-repressed 15-year-old boys, about stuff like fifty foot tall women in loincloths fighting amazon dinosaur riders. Or "a plaec wat maeks u raep ppl, an then thay hav babbies an go aan raep ppl too!!1"
I'm sure there are ways of exploring these topics that aren't cringe-tastic, at least for me. But I really feel like it shows that this was one of their earlier efforts.
the cringe-tastic bits were some of my favorite parts.
as for Aucturn being "rapey" I thought it was great. Evil places should be evil. Aucturn should be as awful as it can be - I would imagine our gazetteer under discussion probably only concerns those few places where people have returned from...
To quote a review on another controversial gaming product - "What do you think they were doing in the Temple of Elemental Evil?"