Fix up my level 1 druid.


Advice

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Sadly for the poor goliath druid, in pathfinder not only the roc is not a dibosaur: not even the archeopteryx is. Which means they lack the ability to shapesift into flying, scouting forms


Let's not turn this thread into a phenetics versus cladistics showdown. We'll be here fifty years. ;)

That said, we're in Paizo's house and like gustavo points out it tragically remains phenetist territory.

Rerednaw wrote:

Wait 7 PC's? Including two tier 1 full casters? Dang with that lineup do what you want. I like the Air Elemental DFA approach myself or big bite single attack cause you don't have maths or full attack worries.

Oh and Roc is awesome. Having a flying companion is great for break...er helping with encounters. :D

I guess for me I'm more concerned about being a team player at a metagame level in a group of 7 players than I am in a group of 4 players.

I feel like the last character I made was supposed to be a team player but, mechanically and RP wise, came off diva when I specialized in speaking all the languages and was the only one who could talk to a number of NPCs. It was a lot of fun for me but maybe played out on the side of holding up the game a little.

I wanna make sure this time around that other folks get their chance to do their thing at lower levels where a druid specced the right way can be dominant, if that makes sense. With the AnC I get two goes a round where other folks just get one and I'm like "Hmm, but it's not my intention to tie up combat like I tied up RP before."

Add to that that at the first couple of levels AnCs are a force of their own.

(I plan, for example, to avoid using Summon Nature's Ally and going three or more times a round. Tact isn't my strong suit but I wanna have some.)

Kaboogy wrote:
As for the actual post discussion, I highly recommend you look at the vmc options. Smite, judgment and slow unarmed strike progression are all options, and so is rage, wizard school powers and bloodlines. The shapshifting transmutation subschool power lets you have additional natural attacks, which can synergise well, since you'll already have an aomf.

I hadn't even thought about VMC. That opens up a whole slew of options that weren't on my radar.

It does also potentially tie up some feats I could use for other things, though, and potentially takes Wild Speech and Craft Wonderous Item off the table.

Otoh, it might alleviate trying to do through combat feats what I might better be able to do through VMC?

The shapeshifting transmutation subschool is tempting, although for the reasons above I'm not sure I want to get into a situation where I have a familiar as well as an AnC.

Seems like having rage could be a huge boon to my combat stats and keeping my damage competitive. Wondering if there's any sorcerer bloodlines that would synergize with a shapeshifting druid. I won't get to look at that until after work.


You have two options if you don't want to take too much actions:
Build a really helpful companion ("help" and "flank" tricks, trip and Menace, maybe Outflank once your pet has Int 3)

Take a dominion and be happy with it

That said: in a group of 7, a companion shines less. You have 2 actions, the resto of the party has 6. It's not the same in a group of 3, where you have as much actions as the whole party combined


Yeah, let's leave off the debate on paleontology, lest we defeat the point of this thread. Also, though my phone died before I could correct myself last night, the study of dinosaurs, or more specifically fossils, is in fact paleontology, not archeology. Regarding the thread itself, don't worry about getting two moves with your AnC and yourself. The full casters could just as easily summon up help. Besides that, I can 't say I know a whole lot about melee feats, etc. I tend to play primary casters, my favorite being the summoner. Like I believe was said earlier in the thread, with that many hit points losing toughness shouldn't be an issue if you want to get it replaced.


I also agree with Gustavo's analysis of the situation with your AnC. With that many other party members, he won't really need to be a tank or a hold down the line fighter. He'll serve better as a tricky fighter, getting trips, flanking, in turn defending the flanks of his companions, in the regard I say a wolf serves rather well. Like I said earlier, he has scent out of combat as well. Also, if your leery about a familiar taking up combat space, familiars aren't really built for combat, so I'd recommend keeping him out of battle period unless you get improved familiar, in which case I suggest you get a ratling or something with some good ranged attacks on it (My personal favorite is the tide pool dragon by miles) and have it sit out of combat for the most part, throwing spells and ranged stuff at the enemy. Again I recommend the ratling and the tide pool dragon, as the former can use any scrolls you guys don't need, and the latter because it's surprisingly good in combat if you end up in a do or die situation.


Since it seems to be home game, the familiar problem can be easily solved. Just ask to have a bonded amulet instead. Most people agree that familiars are more powerful than bonded objects, so you'll probably get a yes, it won't make any mechanical problems since you're a caster, and you can forgo CWI since you'll be able to custom make your amulet instead.


I think I'm going to stow my worries as far as sticking with my animal companion. It's always good to have another flanker on the field and a flanker with a free trip is even better.

Right now, I'm up in the air on VMC. I'm still considering it, especially Barbarian.

For Wizard, it seems like trading out a feat for a familiar I'm not going to get much use out of and an extra natural weapon attack I can only use 3 times a day isn't gonna be worth it.

The thing that might be worth it would be being able to advance strength alongside wisdom as I go up in levels but I suspect just that isn't worth giving up so many feats.

Even with Barbarian, seems like I'd like to go...

1: Toughness(?)
3: Power Attack
5: Natural Spell
7: Craft Wondrous Item
9: Powerful Shape

and otherwise it'd be...

1: Toughness(?)
3: Rage
5: Natural Spell
7: Uncanny Dodge
9: Powerful Shape

In this case as far as my first 10 levels go rage is nice but is it worth giving up Power Attack when I'm guessing I won't get as much out of Uncanny Dodge in the long run as I'd get out of a slew of half price Wondrous items?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
calicokat wrote:

Let's not turn this thread into a phenetics versus cladistics showdown. We'll be here fifty years. ;)

That said, we're in Paizo's house and like gustavo points out it tragically remains phenetist territory.

Rerednaw wrote:

Wait 7 PC's? Including two tier 1 full casters? Dang with that lineup do what you want. I like the Air Elemental DFA approach myself or big bite single attack cause you don't have maths or full attack worries.

Oh and Roc is awesome. Having a flying companion is great for break...er helping with encounters. :D

I guess for me I'm more concerned about being a team player at a metagame level in a group of 7 players than I am in a group of 4 players.

I feel like the last character I made was supposed to be a team player but, mechanically and RP wise, came off diva when I specialized in speaking all the languages and was the only one who could talk to a number of NPCs. ...

2 other Tier 1 casters...it is unlikely your character is going to dominate the table unless the other players or the GM allows it or unless they have subpar play and builds.

Also especially since it's 6 other players. Having 2 actions with a companion is not that jarring. Especially if the other PCs also end up with familiars or summoning, etc...

FYI if you don't want to feel like you are dominating game play, minimize summoning. Don't summon groups, summon 1 and not every fight. And have stat cards handy for your typical summons. I find I don't summon more than 2 or 3 off of each given level list...and some levels I skip entirely. You can also not use your AC as a combat pet. Really depends on your groups dynamics, something we don't know here.


Regarding your first feat build, I don't know if I'd go with craft wondrous item. With two other primary casters, it seems likely at least one of them would take it, and if you needed an item you could just pay them the cost of the materials to have it crafted. I would check with the people playing casters as to whether they're going to take it before you definitely make it a feat you take.


In a group of 7 players, you can't have too much crafting, unless you play a kingmaker style campaign with several months between games


I didn't even think about the time cost for items for 7 players, gustavo. I was thinking about the gold cost and figured if other people wanted items, hey, I'd just make them for them, too, but...I've never actually been a crafter before, totally forgot about the time cost.

Tho, if I don't take Craft Wondrous Item then I'd have room in my build for Wild Speech, a non-essential feat I'd really like for ease of social interaction.

Rerednaw wrote:
Really depends on your groups dynamics, something we don't know here.

Our group dynamics are great. It's not like I think people will get angry with me. I just want to be mindful, too, going in, but particularly because I (personally) feel like I wasn't too mindful previously.

I think we could socially navigate me being a druid with an animal companion with a familiar and who summons. Sure, we could do that.

It's more about exploring options where I'm not in that situation for it to become a problem one night when my index cards get misplaced/I forget my iPad I work off of, or anything else that makes it become a real nuisance.

All that said my understanding of the druid class is far beyond the understanding I had going into this thread and I feel like I'm really ready to tackle the diversity of options.

I remain grateful for all the advice you've all given. Hopefully my druid will survive and thrive and go forward in the campaign prepared to be great at druiding.


Muy point was that somebody suggested you don't need to take it if your team wizard has it. Not true: you could have 2, even times that feat and still woukdn't be too much.

Wild speech can be solved with the ring that allow you to speak a language


Notice that if you can't cast with rage, so if you go that rout maybe give up natural spell? I dunno.


Yeah, I got you, gustavo, I was just saying I hadn't even considered the angle that two crafters could do twice the work in the same time frame.

Also, thank you for bringing my attention to that ring!

I think I'm settling with the normal feat progression for utility's sake and for power attack.

The thing about wild shape is I may be in it for the full duration of the spell, so hours at a time.

Natural spell is important for consecutive fights since there are buffs I'll need to refresh. Plus, even if my role is primarily melee, since my wis is going to be my strongest stat* to get up to those 9th level spells I'm still planning to provide battlefield control spells if I can work them into my daily allotment.

*before bonuses from magic items

Right now, I'm really happy with how the character looks. I think we've looked at pretty much every angle and I'm making a conscious decision to be a little more middle of the road in my gameplay but if that changes I've got all the resources I need to go down another path.

Now there's just seeing how it goes Saturday. :)


Druids are awesome, so you'll be fine :)

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