Does Sleep make you Prone? + Do you drop held items?


Rules Questions

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Bandw2 wrote:
mourge40k wrote:
Melkiador wrote:

Threads like this don't really stop until a FAQ and then there will be whining from one of the two sides. Even if we get tired of arguing the same points over and over there will always be a new group of us tomorrow, next month or next year that will want to put their own spin on things.

I really don't envy the devs making a decision on this question. They have to consider RAW, intent and balance and make a final decision that is bound to make some vocal group of players upset. There will be lots of calls of "My group is still going to do it my way".

I whole-heartedly agree with you here. I don't do PFS, so any FAQ like this I can probably safely ignore, and my players won't care too much.

But onto another point, specifically about how the sleep condition would be overpowered if it did make you go prone and drop your stuff. Doesn't the Sleep spell itself only affect up to 4 HD of creatures? That's actually not too bad, for a first level spell. Hell, just means it'll become less than useful very quickly. Deep Slumber only goes up to 10 HD (again, not that helpful for that long). This only really leaves the Slumber Hex as a concern, and I feel that should be a justifiably powerful ability regardless.

That being said, it's really easy to counter. Elves will laugh at you before doing their thing, and Locked Gauntlets are only 8 gp (16, if you TWF). So, all that really leaves is recovering from prone. And honestly, it's not too bad to eat an attack of opportunity sometimes, and if you're a rogue, you can get Stand up, and not lose any actions at all. What's truly great is that all of these options are from the Core.

... Wait a second. Did I just point out how a Rogue can actually have an edge over some other classes? ... Must be a sign of the end times. Oh well, time to get my bug-out bag.

stop trying to make cohesive arguments, it makes the rest of us look bad.

Or am I just making myself look good?


mourge40k wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
mourge40k wrote:
Melkiador wrote:

Threads like this don't really stop until a FAQ and then there will be whining from one of the two sides. Even if we get tired of arguing the same points over and over there will always be a new group of us tomorrow, next month or next year that will want to put their own spin on things.

I really don't envy the devs making a decision on this question. They have to consider RAW, intent and balance and make a final decision that is bound to make some vocal group of players upset. There will be lots of calls of "My group is still going to do it my way".

I whole-heartedly agree with you here. I don't do PFS, so any FAQ like this I can probably safely ignore, and my players won't care too much.

But onto another point, specifically about how the sleep condition would be overpowered if it did make you go prone and drop your stuff. Doesn't the Sleep spell itself only affect up to 4 HD of creatures? That's actually not too bad, for a first level spell. Hell, just means it'll become less than useful very quickly. Deep Slumber only goes up to 10 HD (again, not that helpful for that long). This only really leaves the Slumber Hex as a concern, and I feel that should be a justifiably powerful ability regardless.

That being said, it's really easy to counter. Elves will laugh at you before doing their thing, and Locked Gauntlets are only 8 gp (16, if you TWF). So, all that really leaves is recovering from prone. And honestly, it's not too bad to eat an attack of opportunity sometimes, and if you're a rogue, you can get Stand up, and not lose any actions at all. What's truly great is that all of these options are from the Core.

... Wait a second. Did I just point out how a Rogue can actually have an edge over some other classes? ... Must be a sign of the end times. Oh well, time to get my bug-out bag.

stop trying to make cohesive arguments, it makes the rest of us look bad.
Or am I just making myself look good?

doesn't matter, unintended consequences and all that.[/joke]


I am curious how someone thinks the Slumber Hex is "justifiably powerful", while allowing it to also inflict Prone and Disarmed. Even leaving off Prone and Disarmed, it's still an enormously powerful ability.


Bandw2 wrote:
James Risner wrote:

So that is settled? One side won't accept the other side saying their view is RAW? Plus one side won't accept the other side saying both sides are RAW?

If so, we are done here. Click the FAQ.

but if they stop i can't pretend i'm still arguing with people.

edit: wow, i got a favorite in less than like 2 minutes... This is my way of shaming people into stopping the thread. works like 20% better than telling people to stop.

welp it lasted 53 minutes.


Melkiador wrote:
I am curious how someone thinks the Slumber Hex is "justifiably powerful", while allowing it to also inflict Prone and Disarmed. Even leaving off Prone and Disarmed, it's still an enormously powerful ability.

I'll admit to not having the typical player-base as the most likely result for this attitude. They tend not to like to Coup-de-Grace most things (trolls and other regenerators being the only exceptions), as they feel that's not really the "good guy" thing to do. That doesn't stop them from tying people up, though.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Melkiador wrote:
I wonder if the "assumption divide" is mostly between video gamers and non-video gamers.

<--- Non-Video gamer


James Risner wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
I wonder if the "assumption divide" is mostly between video gamers and non-video gamers.
<--- Non-Video gamer

you should fix that

I have a feeling you'd like dark souls, even if you'd be bad at vidya gams

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Really...?

You fall asleep. unless your a horse or cow, that usually means you lay down (go prone) to do so, or drop prone. More often than not, those heavy weapons you usually flick about will be dropped or let go to lay beside you.

Wait, it isn't RAW? You mean to tell me that because it isn't spelled out for you word for word, that Sleep could mean different things because the rules didn't say?

I am truly perplexed. Why would you think someone would fall asleep like a scarecrow?

Community Manager

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Locking thread.

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