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It's turned out that our current party will head into a campaign (Level 6-10) without a rogue and despite the fact that I'm a magus with disable device skill, I won't be able to disable any magic trap.
Is there anyway to indirectly disarm a magic trap without having a trapfinding skill?
My current solution is to use master thieve tools + Traveler's any tool ,posing as the extender, in hope to trigger magic trap from the distance though I don't think it will work against AOE trap such as fireball and cloudkill.
Any suggestion will be appreciated. Thanks!
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the trait is called Trap Finder (its from the mummy's mask campaign but some GMs allow it in other campaigns).
Variant Multiclassing (from pathfinder unchained) as a rogue grants trapfinding at 3rd level .
There was a spell called Aram Zey's Focus in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide... it grants trapfinding while in effect. its a 2nd level wizard spell but you could pick it up at 6th with the Spell Blending arcana (or 5th with the extra arcana feat).
Good old dispel magic can render them inert temporarily too... that's probably the simplest solution (though also maybe the least reliable).
-cue gif of bender laughing, realizing you're serious, then laughing harder-
It's turned out that our current party will head into a campaign (Level 6-10) without a rogue and despite the fact that I'm a magus with disable device skill, I won't be able to disable any magic trap.
it's called dispel magic...
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Unless your DM is some kind of magical trap pervert you shouldn't really need a Rogue or other PC with the Trapfinding ability. That said, I agree with those who have said you can FIND magical traps just fine using Perception. Many people have a misconception that you need Trapfinding to find magical traps, but it is actually just required to disable them.
Using summoned monsters to set off traps can work well, but it can be tough to get low level monsters who can understand a language to take commands such as "Open that door". The mite from SNA I can work well for this, and the fact that they're Evil and annoying little buggers makes ordering them to go get blown up a little more fun.
If a little Evil doesn't bother you then you could have a crew of undead "doormen" (perhaps with fancy uniforms) to not only set off traps but enhance the party's action economy. Bloody skeletons can set off traps, get blown up, and then return to service in about an hour. Unlike many low level summoned monsters, they can also obey simple verbal commands.
Hmm...is there a way to collect a trap for later use in Pathfinder?
I... Think so? I feel like I remember reading something similar but I think it was in a mythic path or something.
If a trap includes a crossbow or scythe in it and it's readily accessible, I don't see any reason why you couldn't take it after the trap is sprung. Or disabled.
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Using summoned monsters to set off traps can work well, but it can be tough to get low level monsters who can understand a language to take commands such as "Open that door". The mite from SNA I can work well for this, and the fact that they're Evil and annoying little buggers makes ordering them to go get blown up a little more fun.
Agreed. But the question was triggering the trap, not finding it so no need for complex instructions =).
Summon Monsters can be placed within 25' +5'/2 CL so you just drop the poor guy into it.
The unseen servant follow directions easily and can open things fine.
Most bases are covered between the two options. And since it doesn't really "kill" the Summoned Monster" there aren't any alignment infractions.
Unless your DM is a real traplover, you are probably fine, although I do like to have someone with trapfinding. Preferably not a rogue though, as there are lots of better ways to get that while still having a character that can contribute to the party in other ways.
If nothing else, a bloody skeleton makes an excellent trap detector.
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Magic can always counter magic. Dispel Magic is general enough to bypass the trap. Or just suck it up and cure the damage afterwards. By level 5 you have access to most of the restorative spells that will really need for traps.
The Rogue ability just allows for a non-magical way to deal with a magical problem.
It's turned out that our current party will head into a campaign (Level 6-10) without a rogue and despite the fact that I'm a magus with disable device skill, I won't be able to disable any magic trap.it's called dispel magic...
This.
Dispel magic works better than a rogue because you can dispel from a distance.
Dispel magic can work on magical traps. It's not as efficient as Trapfinding, but it can work in a pinch. As a magus, you have the advantage of spell recall, which makes you better at dispelling than a typical wizard. In every game I played, we dealt with magical traps just fine without a rogue.
It's turned out that our current party will head into a campaign (Level 6-10) without a rogue and despite the fact that I'm a magus with disable device skill, I won't be able to disable any magic trap.
Is there anyway to indirectly disarm a magic trap without having a trapfinding skill?
My current solution is to use master thieve tools + Traveler's any tool ,posing as the extender, in hope to trigger magic trap from the distance though I don't think it will work against AOE trap such as fireball and cloudkill.
Any suggestion will be appreciated. Thanks!
Unseen servant can simply activate them, right? :P
Unseen Servant explicitly states that it cannot press down on most pressure plates, so Mount wins out in that regard.
On the other hand, a Mount wouldn't be able to turn a door knob which some traps would likely have as the trigger.
Guide to disarming magical traps: Throw the meat shield at it and take cover. Or you could toss debris. Tossing the meat shield at it is much funner though.
Guide to disarming magical traps: Throw the meat shield at it and take cover. Or you could toss debris. Tossing the meat shield at it is much funner though.
Reminds me of when I suggested tossing stones at the trap until we figure out exactly where is safe. Suddenly there were no more stones anywhere.
"That's ok. There are a bunch of dead bandits downstairs. C'mon Mr fightey man, I need your greataxe for a sec."
Talk to your GM - is he/she concerned that you don't have a character in the party with trapfinding? If so, ask for some suggestions from the GM.
Buy a bunch of small expendable rodents, like squirrels, and toss them through door ways, or slide them down hallways? Hell, you could make a game out of that! Besides, squirrels only cost a few gold.
Or in lieu of buying squirrels, get one of those bags of tricks or whatever the bags full of rodents are called.
Or in lieu of buying squirrels, get one of those bags of tricks or whatever the bags full of rodents are called.
Ideally, also pick up a decanter of endless water, some sovereign glue and an old funnel.
I guess a badger launcher could be used to spring traps... Hmmmmm....
GMs tend to come in two varieties: those that love traps, and those that have them occasionally. The second variety is what causes the "how can I live without a rogue" reactions above; rogues have been a bit of a laugh for these types.
The first type is the one to be careful of. The one that has been playing since D&D 1E that has save or suck spells and poisonous traps sprinkled so liberally that you search for traps every five foot square, the door, the walls, *after* opening the chest, and so forth.
Pathfinder in general doesn't *assume* that the group has a rogue or someone with trapfinding (Mummy's Mask being a possible exception), you can get by perfectly fine without one 1-20 by some of the methods mentioned above (dispel magic, etc.) It's the GM that assumes whether or not you have a rogue, so ask them :)
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GMs tend to come in two varieties: those that love traps, and those that have them occasionally. The second variety is what causes the "how can I live without a rogue" reactions above; rogues have been a bit of a laugh for these types.
The first type is the one to be careful of. The one that has been playing since D&D 1E that has save or suck spells and poisonous traps sprinkled so liberally that you search for traps every five foot square, the door, the walls, *after* opening the chest, and so forth.
I also find with the first type that just saying "I have trapfinding" isn't enough. You, as a player, need to say you are explicitly checking everything and not rely on just a perception check. So even having a trapfinding rogue may not help much in the long run. It just means the rogue dies first to any trap. (Followed by the rest of the party)
Wands of mount and sending the pony to walk in front of you is a common tactic.
Dispel magic to get rid of magical traps.
That's about all you need.
The idea that you actually need a rogue to deal with traps, that's the misconception here.
How do you live without a rogue? Answer: Without any problems.
Wand of cure light wounds bypass most traps.
Traps aren't really well designed, they don't improve teamwork or interaction. The few traps that aren't binary in nature and boring as hell are those that aren't just "roll a die, takr damage, heal damage". Things like a rolling boulder, Indiana Jones style, that make you take decisions to flee, hide, etc, or the classic star Wars "walls are squashing us in two minutes", that become an encounter, work better. "Roll perception, if you miss take X damage and removecY CLW charges" are pointles inmho
Mount will not work very well.
Nothing in the spell indicates it is war trained. Given that, it would get the general purpose training for riding.
Riding (DC 15): An animal trained to bear a rider knows the tricks come, heel, and stay.
Best you can do it attempt to summon it on the other side of a trap (close range, same as summons) and try to get it to come to you.
How well summons works depends on what you can summon that you can communicate with. That likely means Linguistics or Handle Animal skill.
As others stated above, perception allows you to find even the magical traps. Once found just bypass the trap. Even when playing a rogue, I will often just mark off where the trap is and avoid it if possible.
Given the starting level, you may also ask your GM if they will allow Leadership feat. Take a rogue specializing in traps as a cohort.
If a party member has a decent Handle Animal or a high Charisma they could always just take 20 on pushing the Horse.
He said he's fine with me taking Trapfinder trait (Mummy's Mask). He also reminded me that I will have to replace my defensive strategist trait to cope my crappy kensai's flatfoot AC (13). I told him I will think of it, though.Kensai solve the flat-footed issue naturally as they level: always act in the surprise round + Int to initiative means that you shouldn't be flat-footed due to surprise often once you break out of the early levels.
They can solve it even better if they use Arcane Deed to grab Evasive.
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I also find with the first type that just saying "I have trapfinding" isn't enough. You, as a player, need to say you are explicitly checking everything and not rely on just a perception check. So even having a trapfinding rogue may not help much in the long run. It just means the rogue dies first to any trap. (Followed by the rest of the party)
That's why the Trap-Spotter talent is amazing if the campaign uses a decent # of traps etc.
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Without a dedicated trap-spotter/removal character, your best bet is having at least 2 folks with really good perception checks and be paranoid.
For trap triggering, summons really are your best bet. As long as the trap is not an instant reset. Dispel magic is handy, but will merely suppress the magic of the trap, not disable it.
As to setting loose squirrels, throwing a stone, etc., most triggers would probably not go off from light weights (if you were setting a trap, would you want it to go off if a mouse crossed you dungeon corridor?). Heavier weights would work as long as it is a pressure plate trigger.
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To sort of break it down: trap finding gives you two things that every other character does not have (directly)
First is a bonus to perception and disable device. This is nice and by level 6 it is significant. However, skill focus, mw tools and magic items can also make up this difference.
Second is the ability to disable Magical Traps. Anyone with Disable can disable mechanical traps. And as mentioned many magical traps can either be dispelled or just triggered and healed.
The main advantage of trap finding is being able to disarm magical traps without using any consumable/daily resources.
Most PF traps are just means to quickly use resources of the party.
Unseen Servant explicitly states that it cannot press down on most pressure plates, so Mount wins out in that regard.
On the other hand, a Mount wouldn't be able to turn a door knob which some traps would likely have as the trigger.
The unseen servant could place things on the trap, though. And if you are aware of the trap someone else could just throw crap on the plate to activate the trap.
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Living without a Rogue is like living with a Summoner.
It's horrible and I don't understand how or why anybody would ever tolerate it.
