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Yesterday, I was judging an adventure for PFS. One player announced that she had an Unchained Half -Elf Rogue who took the Racial Heritage Feat (Tengu) and then used that to obtain the Tengu Wings Feat. I declared that is not a legal build. I pointed to the Additional Resources page on the Advanced Race Guide to the below statement:
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Note: Alternate racial traits, racial archetypes, racial evolutions, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed).
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However another guy at the table said the Additional Resource Page on the Advanced Race Guide only applies to characters without the Racial Heritage Feat. He argued that since the said player paid the feat tax in Racial Heritage (Tengu, then the build was legal.
Personally, in a home game, I don't see anything with wrong that. If I ran a home game, I'd allow the build. However since, we're talking about PFS, then what is the correct ruling.
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You are correct. Racial Heritage does not allow you to access another race's material from the ARG and any other book bearing similar language. It works fine for any book that doesn't have that language on the AR page, though.
Do anyone have an official ruling by Brock or Compton on the matter? My table mates seem to be only willing to accept a ruling from them.
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Another example on how restrictive PFS can be for ARG,
Half-Elves and Half-Orcs can't pick Human-only feats
However for the specific benefit of favored class bonuses, half-orcs and half-elves count for both their respective heritages. They specifically need elf blood or orc blood for the elf or orc favored class benefits.
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
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Also keep this in mind. There are some traits that are a part of the race makeup that replaces the regular race abilities. Then there are the Race Traits (sometimes call Racial traits in certain books) that are one of two traits that the character can take at first level, ones that are additional choices to the regular traits in the regular traits first introduced in the web traits PDF.
Other races can never get the abilities that are swapped out for normal ones, but can get the Race Traits through adopted.
If you have previous books that have Race/Racial traits that give them one of the four basic categories in addition to being for that race, the Ultimate Campaign book eliminated those additional qualifications. (you can now take "social" race traits with Adopted)
This has caused a lot of confusion in the past. This feat can also be used instead of Adopted, since it does the same thing but for more than just traits.
I believe all the "traits" in the Advance Racial Guide are the swap out of abilities, not traits taken as a background perk.
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Also keep this in mind. There are some traits that are a part of the race makeup that replaces the regular race abilities. Then there are the Race Traits (sometimes call Racial traits in certain books) that are one of two traits that the character can take at first level, ones that are additional choices to the regular traits in the regular traits first introduced in the web traits PDF.
Other races can never get the abilities that are swapped out for normal ones, but can get the Race Traits through adopted.
If you have previous books that have Race/Racial traits that give them one of the four basic categories in addition to being for that race, the Ultimate Campaign book eliminated those additional qualifications. (you can now take "social" race traits with Adopted)
This has caused a lot of confusion in the past. This feat can also be used instead of Adopted, since it does the same thing but for more than just traits.
I believe all the "traits" in the Advance Racial Guide are the swap out of abilities, not traits taken as a background perk.
Actually, Advanced Race Guide doesn't even have Race Traits.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
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Both the Swap out abilities and the background "Half-Feats" are called 'Traits.'
ARG does have the swap out abilities for almost all the races, including "Glide" for the Tengu, that would not be able to be taken by any other race for any reason. (This feat or adopted allows for the background traits, not the ability swaps)
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Both the Swap out abilities and the background "Half-Feats" are called 'Traits.'
ARG does have the swap out abilities for almost all the races, including "Glide" for the Tengu, that would not be able to be taken by any other race for any reason. (This feat or adopted allows for the background traits, not the ability swaps)
It's better to refer to that as a "Racial Trait", or more specifically for Tengu's "Glide" as an "Alternative Racial Trait". To reduce confusion with the general background traits, commonly refered to as "Traits". Unfortunately there will never not be confusion between Racial Traits (that's part of the race write up) and Racial Traits (part of the background traits) as that gets mixed up by a new/experience player every 2 months on the forums or so when trying to game the Adopted social trait to their advantage.
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Another example on how restrictive PFS can be for ARG,
Half-Elves and Half-Orcs can't pick Human-only feats
However for the specific benefit of favored class bonuses, half-orcs and half-elves count for both their respective heritages. They specifically need elf blood or orc blood for the elf or orc favored class benefits.
Okay lets see if I got these things right.
1) A 1/2 Elf Paladin get invest in the Elf Favored Paladin Class Bonus to boost his Lay on Hands. As 1/2 Elves can pick the favored class bonuses of Elf, Human, or 1/2 Elf.
2) Human Characters with the Racial Heritage Feats can pick Ironhide (Dwarf) Feat and Well-Prepared (Halfling) Feat. As these racial feats are in the Advance Players Guide, not the Advance Race Guide.
3) A 1/2 Elf Rogue with the Major Magic - Rogue Talent can't cast the Blend spell. Since it is a Elf Spell in the Advance Race Guide.
4) A Human, Use Magic Device Skill expert, can't purchase a Paragon Surge scroll or even attempt to UMD such a scroll. since it is a 1/2 Elf spell found the Advance Race Guide.
The PFS rules can be confusing when players try to be cute.
Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas
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1) Correct.
2) As long as Ironhide and Well-Prepared do not require a racial trait that the Human does not have. If the Dwarf one, for instance, requires the racial trait that gives bonus on their saves to take, the Human could not then take it. For both of those, on looking, adopted should allow you to qualify, if adopted by the correct rave.
3) Correct
4) He cannot purchase it, due to the racial limitation, correct. If a half-elf with the spell in a wand or on a scroll lends it to him, he could attempt to use UMD to activate it. If he has Racial Heritage: Half-elf, he is even a legal target for it, but otherwise, not.
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Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas
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It's better to refer to that as a "Racial Trait", or more specifically for Tengu's "Glide" as an "Alternative Racial Trait". To reduce confusion with the general background traits, commonly refered to as "Traits". Unfortunately there will never not be confusion between Racial Traits (that's part of the race write up) and Racial Traits (part of the background traits) as that gets mixed up by a new/experience player every 2 months on the forums or so when trying to game the Adopted social trait to their advantage.Both the Swap out abilities and the background "Half-Feats" are called 'Traits.'
ARG does have the swap out abilities for almost all the races, including "Glide" for the Tengu, that would not be able to be taken by any other race for any reason. (This feat or adopted allows for the background traits, not the ability swaps)
Just a minor correction:
"Racial Traits" are the racial abilities and their alternatives, like the bonus feat for Humans."Race Traits" are the half-feat traits that are available to members of Race X, and can be accessed via the Social Trait, "Adopted".
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Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Southwest
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You are correct. Racial Heritage does not allow you to access another race's material from the ARG and any other book bearing similar language. It works fine for any book that doesn't have that language on the AR page, though.Do anyone have an official ruling by Brock or Compton on the matter? My table mates seem to be only willing to accept a ruling from them.
If your "Table Mates" are unwilling to accept your ruling, which is clearly within the bounds of RAW- then you might want to have a serious talk with them regarding their attitudes towards 'cooperative play' and the nature of PFS.
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It's better to refer to that as a "Racial Trait", or more specifically for Tengu's "Glide" as an "Alternative Racial Trait". To reduce confusion with the general background traits, commonly refered to as "Traits". Unfortunately there will never not be confusion between Racial Traits (that's part of the race write up) and Racial Traits (part of the background traits) as that gets mixed up by a new/experience player every 2 months on the forums or so when trying to game the Adopted social trait to their advantage.Both the Swap out abilities and the background "Half-Feats" are called 'Traits.'
ARG does have the swap out abilities for almost all the races, including "Glide" for the Tengu, that would not be able to be taken by any other race for any reason. (This feat or adopted allows for the background traits, not the ability swaps)
Just a minor correction:
"Racial Traits" are the racial abilities and their alternatives, like the bonus feat for Humans."Race Traits" are the half-feat traits that are available to members of Race X, and can be accessed via the Social Trait, "Adopted".
D'OH! Freaking typos! Yea that's what I meant, thanks.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
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Race and Racial Traits are called one or the other in various books for both things. If the terminology is straightened out now, it was not back when Gnomes of Golorian was release, as they are called "Racial Traits" in there for the background "half feats."
It is a point of confusion that I wish could be fixed, but needs instead to be explained instead for new players. The abilities are usually under a race write-up, and are mostly in the ARG. These are the things that normally gives Low Light vision and such.