Can you make "Additional Resources" more prominent on the PFS page?


Pathfinder Society

1/5 * RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

A PFS event got canceled because a new PFS player showed up with a synthesist non-unchained summoner. He got so bummed out that he choose to play a board game instead of use a pre-gen. As a result, the GM had to cancel the event because of lack of players. He said he searched the site and couldn't find the list for accepted material. I can't blame him either. "Additional Resources" sounds more like a page for downloading stuff than for telling what content is legal for play.

1/5

I agree overall that more prominence would be helpful to new players; once you know that it exists, though, googling "Paizo additional resources" brings it up as the first link.

The canceled game is definitely unfortunate :\

5/5 5/55/55/5

While nothing is 100% accurate (including the additional resources page sometimes) if you google "thing i want to check the legality of" and "archives of nethys" you can look for a funny white X next to the thing you're looking for to check society legality.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

Yeah, but how often will a new player know to do that BNW?

1/5

There really should be some official source, like the Paizo rules archive, that specifically marks things as PFS banned or not. I know that a lot of stuff isn't in the archive but the additional resources is just a mess. Items are banned in one source but allowed from another. Too much stuff is simply referenced by page number which means you need to own the book in question rather than being able to find out before hand if the item you're interested in is allowed or not before you buy it. It is no surprise that so many questions and problems come up about the AR.

For instance, does anyone actually know what animal companions druids and hunters are allowed to have right now? Clearly the list has been trimmed without much notice several times in the past years. All I'm really sure of is the bestiary lists are wrong, HL is wrong and when I tried to make my own list I couldn't because the AR didn't specifically state when a source added an AC so my list is at best incomplete.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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When reading the additional resources, does anyone else hear it in the voice of the radio announcer saying what schools are closed that day?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

...I'm pretty sure that's just you.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Yeah, but how often will a new player know to do that BNW?

Not very often, but that instruction is easier to give to new players than navigating additional resources.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Jessex wrote:

There really should be some official source, like the Paizo rules archive, that specifically marks things as PFS banned or not. I know that a lot of stuff isn't in the archive but the additional resources is just a mess. Items are banned in one source but allowed from another. Too much stuff is simply referenced by page number which means you need to own the book in question rather than being able to find out before hand if the item you're interested in is allowed or not before you buy it. It is no surprise that so many questions and problems come up about the AR.

For instance, does anyone actually know what animal companions druids and hunters are allowed to have right now? Clearly the list has been trimmed without much notice several times in the past years. All I'm really sure of is the bestiary lists are wrong, HL is wrong and when I tried to make my own list I couldn't because the AR didn't specifically state when a source added an AC so my list is at best incomplete.

Since you need to own the book (physically or electronically) to use the Thing anyway, this is only somewhat of a problem.

If your workflow is "buy book, see something you like, check additional resources" you're fine.

Of course, for many of us it's the other way around. We find a Thing, and then want to know if it's legal and if so we might buy the book it's in.

In those cases I recommend getting access to the book to check things out before you buy it. By borrowing from a friend for example, or looking through it in the FLGS. Because another thing to watch out is 3rd party sites making mistakes that matter. So you should always check out the primary source anyway.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Look at the pathfinder society Facebook group sometime. Every other post there is "is x legal?" No amount of constant linking can get a certain type of people to do even the most basic of research on their own.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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To be fair" additional resources" sounds like the guide , more vespene gas, splat books, pathfindering 101, setting up a society etc.

"Stuff whats legal and not here" would be the signpost more needed by a newbie.

1/5 * RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

BigNorseWolf wrote:

To be fair" additional resources" sounds like the guide , more vespene gas, splat books, pathfindering 101, setting up a society etc.

"Stuff whats legal and not here" would be the signpost more needed by a newbie.

Yep, this is what I mean. Of course, now that I'm not a newbie, I know where to look.

It was also a big shock to the player to learn that the summoner got banned and that he had to play a different version from a book he never heard of. Banning an entire class was something he never anticipated, especially when the player's guide implied he could. Banning a whole class is a big deal. Not something that should be swept in a small note.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

It is a bit odd that the Additional Resources aren't in the menu bar on the left.

Just like "register your character" is the only way I know of to get to the part where I report scenarios I GMed. This website could be more newbie-friendly.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Ascalaphus wrote:
Just like "register your character" is the only way I know of to get to the part where I report scenarios I GMed. This website could be more newbie-friendly.

Pathfinder Society Logo on left side of screen > My Pathfinder Society > [Sign in] > GM/Event Coordinator tab. You can report from there. That's how I do it. Don't think I've ever gone through the register your character link.

I will agree that the Additional Resources page is difficult to get to, requiring way too many clicks. Thankfully, I visit it so often that Google Chrome automatically brings it up when I type "addit". Actually, now that I think about it, that's kinda sad.

The biggest issue I have with it beyond being hard to get to is the conflicting wording. At the top, it says "If a product does not appear on this list, then it is not considered legal for play."
Yet many things I've wanted to look at are saying "These things are legal except..."
Would it not be simpler to say "these things are not allowed in play"? That's what's itemized in half the listings anyway...

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Cyrad wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

To be fair" additional resources" sounds like the guide , more vespene gas, splat books, pathfindering 101, setting up a society etc.

"Stuff whats legal and not here" would be the signpost more needed by a newbie.

Yep, this is what I mean. Of course, now that I'm not a newbie, I know where to look.

It was also a big shock to the player to learn that the summoner got banned and that he had to play a different version from a book he never heard of. Banning an entire class was something he never anticipated, especially when the player's guide implied he could. Banning a whole class is a big deal. Not something that should be swept in a small note.

So, I assume, that the player has read the guide to organized play, and the character was otherwise entirely legal? And had the required resources with him?

I agree, that it could be highlighted a bit better, and maybe the "how to start" part could be easier to find on the site, but... the even limitations like the legal race are in the additional resources, he might as well have turned up with a drow ranger (though that one is far easier to fix).

The guide is pretty clear, but maybe, the "Character Creation" section (pages 7-10), could bear
to repeat the part from page 5 :

Guide to organized play Version 8. Page wrote:

The Core Assumption

The leadership of this organized play community assumes
that you will use common sense in your interpretation of
the rules. This includes being courteous and encouraging
a mutual interest in playing, not engaging in endless rules
discussions. While you are enjoying the game, be considerate
of the others at the table and don’t let your actions keep them

from having a good time too. In short, don’t be a jerk.
Pathfinder Society Organized Play assumes that every
player has the following resources.
• Pathfinder R PG Core Rulebook
• Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play (this document)
Additionally, a GM should have access to all books
in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line of hardcover
rulebooks, whether a physical or electronic copy. The
rules content of these books can be found online for free
as part of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference
Document located at paizo.com/prd. Unless noted
otherwise in this guide, everything contained in the
Core Rulebook (except artifacts, evil items, and intelligent
items) is legal for Pathfinder Society play. Players whose
characters utilize creatures from an approved Additional
Resource as companions or familiars are required to have
that reference at the table.
In addition to having these materials, players and
Game Masters are expected to be familiar with the
official Pathfinder Society Organized Play FAQ at
paizo.com/pathfindersociety/faq. If a clarification on the
FAQ pertains to your character, you are expected to bring
a copy of the relevant sections to any Pathfinder Society
Organized Play game.

Additional Resources
Paizo Publishing produces a wide range of sourcebooks
that further explore the game rules and world of Pathfinder.
These volumes contain a huge variety of options to help

you customize your character. You can view a frequently
updated list of all campaign-legal Additional Resources
online at paizo.com/pathfindersociety/resources.
In order
to utilize content from an Additional Resource, a player
must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource
in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of it, or a
printout of the relevant pages from it, as well as a copy
of the current version of the Additional Resources list.
You must inform the Game Master that you plan to use
Additional Resource material before play begins, so he has
a chance to familiarize himself with the new material.

Chapter 2 mentions the additonal resources too, but the /resources link does not send you to the additonal resources, or even the player resources page anyway.

Chapter 2 wrote:

Select your character’s class and race from the choices
offered in the Core Rulebook. You may also select kitsune,
nagaji, tengu and wayang as your character’s race with
access to the proper Additional Resources book. Other
races are not legal unless the character’s Chronicle stack
includes a race boon. Additional class and race options
from resources like the Pathfinder R PG Advanced Player’s
Guide, Pathfinder R PG Ultimate Magic, Pathfinder R PG
Ultimate Combat, Pathfinder R PG Advanced Race Guide, and
Pathfinder Campaign Setting: T he Inner Sea World Guide are
generally available with few or no alterations
, as well.
In some cases, such as magic item creation, the special
nature of a worldwide organized play campaign requires
minor changes to standard class features. Please note the
following such changes:

The section about feats actually links to Paizo.com/pathfindersociety/additionalresources, but that just deposits me on the main PFS Page.

However when I go the the additional resources page, my browser lits this URL
http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/additionalResources

That fixing that seems like a nice Idea.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Its suppose to get better, but the current guide is really dense and legalistic. I would not hand it to someone and say "play pfs" any more than i would hand a new player the core rulebook and say "here make a character" .

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Ideally, if it is not one of my players - I usually offer some sort of aid when it comes to character creation, and some players have taken my offer - sending a player to these boards is not a terrible idea.

If the request includes "Character for PFS" and " new player", chances are very good, that the player will receive pretty good advice.

Dark Archive

This is a wonderful idea that I fully endorse.

I'll also chip in agreement that renaming or even providing two/more urls which redirect to additional resources would increase the search friendliness and would be beneficial to those who are trying to learn.

Dark Archive 4/5

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I can get behind this idea and also let us know when it gets updated. I was looking through it the other day to find the Allosaurus was suddenly no longer legal for play so I have a 7th level Nagaji Saurian Shaman with an illegal AC at the moment :P Will have to figure out something else pronto!

3/5

I experienced similar difficulties trying to track down this elusive "Additional Resources" my local PFS group was telling me about. I even went directly to that page, decided it didn't look right, and kept searching elsewhere.

4/5 *

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I think the basic problem is, many players don't find PFS through Paizo at all. They hear about it at their local game store, or at a con, or from their friends. Many are already playing Pathfinder or are at least familiar with it, and they figure they can just build a character and show up. We haven't had synthesists show up in our Lodge, but we have had PCs come in who have rolled their stats, or who made a level 7 PC because that's the scenario that sounded good on our Warhorn site.

What would help the most IMO is to put together a resource that local gamers *could* hand out to their friends to get them started, instead of the Guide. A short, concise piece that covers the very basics - 4 pages, with only the absolutely important "before the first game" stuff in there. Now that we have the first-level rebuild rule, there is no reason to bombard people with every option up front, because they can change it. They don't even really need a faction at first - they just need a legal PC, the Core Assumption, and to know how Chronicles and purchasing works.

They get this doc from the game store or their friend (or Paizo), they show up, they can play with their own character, and after the game, the GM or coordinator or player liaison can point them towards the more detailed stuff.

Of course, we point them towards the Guide and the AR and the Paizo website. But that is afterwards, and done by a person and not a website. I think we may be expecting too much of Paizo in terms of recruiting efforts for our local games - at some point, we have to market our communities ourselves.

And yes, I know this means I am volunteering to work on this. I can't do it all, but there are lots of folks out there who could help work on it. If you're willing, PM me and we'll make a stab at it.

EDIT: I have seem some of these from various sources, and they all have good material in them - maybe it's a compilation task rather than a creating task?

Sczarni 3/5

I am displeased with the general user-friendlyness of the paizo website as a whole but right now it's the best thing we've got.

I've even postponed reporting sessions for half a year because I was so annoyed at the inaccesability of the most basic features like reporting or writing a scenario review. But that's a whole different discussion altogether...

With every single drop of content available through many different sources the day the physical copies are available in your FLGS, you'd think that paizo would make it easier to get that content with the click of a mouse. For me as a european with no interest in owning a credit card it feels ridiculous that it's more convenient to download the latest PDF on insert pirate website here even when i'm more than willing to spend a couple of bucks.

/rant

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

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GM Lamplighter wrote:
What would help the most IMO is to put together a resource that local gamers *could* hand out to their friends to get them started, instead of the Guide. A short, concise piece that covers the very basics - 4 pages, with only the absolutely important "before the first game" stuff in there. Now that we have the first-level rebuild rule, there is no reason to bombard people with every option up front, because they can change it. They don't even really need a faction at first - they just need a legal PC, the Core Assumption, and to know how Chronicles and purchasing works.

Doesn't this describe the 2-page Quick Start document, that (last time I checked) was included in the download of the Guide to Organised Play?

Every time I print out a new sheet of PFS numbers, I also print ten copies of the Quick Start guide, and make sure to give them both to brand new PFS players.

4/5 *

Paz wrote:
Doesn't this describe the 2-page Quick Start document, that (last time I checked) was included in the download of the Guide to Organised Play?

Well, not exactly. The Quick Start Guide which comes with the main guide is a really good start, but it assumes you start at Paizo.com and go from there. It does have some great explanation of the OP environment, but it's the character creation stuff that doesn't quite work.

Quick-Start Guide wrote:
All Pathfinder Society characters begin play at 1st level, and use the “High Fantasy” 20-point purchase method of generating Ability scores, as outlined in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play or the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook. You can select your character’s class and race from the choices offered in the Core Rulebook. Additional class options from resources like the Advanced Player’s Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat, Advanced Race Guide, and Advanced Class Guide are generally available with few or no alterations, as well. In some cases, such as magic item creation, the special nature of a worldwide organized play campaign requires minor changes to standard class features, which are outlined in detail in Chapter 2 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

I think this section is what needs clarification and expanding upon. If someone were to read this as their only introduction, there's no reason they shouldn't show up with a synthesist summoner and expect it to be legal.

It's a subtle difference, but something designed to be handed out at games is going to be different than something you get when you've already gone to Paizo.com and downloaded the Guide.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

Carla the Profane wrote:


I've even postponed reporting sessions for half a year because I was so annoyed at the inaccesability of the most basic features like reporting or writing a scenario review. But that's a whole different discussion altogether...

/rant

Oh man I spend so much time looking for the review button...

(my monitor contrst sucks big time so I could not see that the first part of "Write a review for scenario X!" was blue and clickable...)

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

I appreciate all of the feedback thus far as it is helpful. One reason we don't just list either everything that is legal or is not legal is that it would increase the size of the overall document, likely to 30-35 pages. So we opted for using whichever list was shorter for each book as it was added.

We are working on some things to try to help make it better.

Currently, the quickest way to get to Additional Respurces is two clicks. Click the PFS logo in the top let of the website. It takes you to the PFS landing page. On the top right, under Player Resources, you will see a clink for Additional Resources.

Silver Crusade 3/5

For me it's not the amount of clicking, it's noticing that link in the first place.

Of course you're kinda assumed to have read the Guide to Organized play before you go looking for the additional resources, but in reality that's not a given, and even then it's difficult to remember everything, for example that "Additional Resources is the place to look for what's legal and what's not. But for those new players who just skim through the guide, it would really help to make the link more prominent on the page. I know it took me a while to locate it.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

Leathert wrote:

For me it's not the amount of clicking, it's noticing that link in the first place.

Of course you're kinda assumed to have read the Guide to Organized play before you go looking for the additional resources, but in reality that's not a given, and even then it's difficult to remember everything, for example that "Additional Resources is the place to look for what's legal and what's not. But for those new players who just skim through the guide, it would really help to make the link more prominent on the page. I know it took me a while to locate it.

I'm not sure the best way to do that. I still get people assign all the time "How do I join the Pathfinder Society" even though the link is in the middle of that page with white space above and below it.

Something with Regional Coordinators. Even though they can be found both on the side links of every page and on the PFS page, people still ask.

Do you have suggestions on how to make it more prominent?

Silver Crusade 3/5

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Michael Brock wrote:
Do you have suggestions on how to make it more prominent?

Mike, some of the web design stuff is going to be above your pay grade, we understand that. Unfortunately for Paizo, your website is dated, and navigation is hampered by the layout. For that reason, it is difficult to offer suggestions on that front that are little more than patches.

That said, one suggestion up thread that I think resonates with many of us is that "Additional Resources," while accurate, is not a phrase that evokes what the document does.

Instead, something like Which Pathfinder material is or is not legal for play in PFS? might be better.

I also agree with those above who suggested that the Guide to PFSOP is a bit too dense for new players. The Quick Start guide is a good first step, but in many places (in particular the section on Additional Resources) it simply refers the reader back to the Guide to PFSOP (also, it names that section Additional Resources instead of "What material can I use in PFS?"). I would be happy to work with anyone on developing a new-and-improved Quick Start Guide, that could be handed to 1st-game players.

It might be good to include an FAQ in the Quick Start Guide. There are many questions that get asked here all of the time that are not even on the web FAQ. One of those being "Is X legal?"

Those are just a handful of suggestions.

Edit: Here is a better link for the Additional Resources page:

Which races/classes/feats/traits/spells/equipment/etc. are legal for use in PFS?

Sovereign Court 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Mike,

I think this website suffers from a lack of webdesign and as a result is cluttered and difficult to navigate for new users. Even though I've been browsing paizo.com for a few years now I still find myself stumbling on new links that were put in a place that I didn't expect that would have saved me a bunch of page traversals.

This does not seem to be a PFS problem, because the PFS site is constrained by the web design decisions made for the entire paizo site. I don't think PFS leadership will get very far on their own unless the web team is willing to do a more global revamp (which I would strongly suggest).

The first thing I thought when I started PFS was that the paizo.com site looks like a college senior design project. It's not exactly professional, and more problematic is that its difficult to navigate. There's an apparent lack of planning on how content should be organized (at least from this user's perspective). It could very well benefit from an overhaul especially given how sharp the website of paizo's primary competitor looks.

The feedback sounds harsh I imagine, but please don't view it as an attack on the developers or anyone working at paizo - the criticism is directed specifically at the product. It's difficult to change software that's been around for years because it's hard to justify dedicating a budget towards revamping something that already works.

Overall, I think the product could heavily benefit from some reorganization and great deal of usability testing. Admittedly, it's been a very long time since I've done any web development, so I don't think I can provide any specific advice (not that my opinion was exactly solicited anyway), but web design consultants are aplenty so there should be many professionals available to provide some insight into how to improve the experience here.

For an easy improvement, people also seem to be suggesting that "Additional Resources" is somewhat of a misleading name. I think that's a reasonably sound observation. Naming is a very tricky business, but it is also very important because names are one of the most important tools that users can use to learn about the software they are interacting with.

"Legal Resources" may be a more concise, intuitive name.

Hope that helps, sorry if I offended anybody.

*

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Right now it is under a header 'player resources' & the third item in a list. 'Is something legal' for most players is the purview of GMs so the may not even look at players stuff for legal options. The guide which points players to AR is under that header.

One suggestion, probably not the best, is to make a header for 'new players' 'start here' or 'getting started' etc. in the same box as player/GM resorces/blog/factions. Then put only three links (bullets?): join now, PFSGOTP, & AR.
FWIW I think 'additional resources' is not intuitive for 'is this legal?' or 'can I play X?' it needs to be phrased so that 'additional resources' means outside of Core. Maybe build a character from the core rulebook and these selected/selective additional resources EDITED for ninja.

1/5 * RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

While calling the page/link "Addiitonal Resources" makes sense in the context of the Core Assumption, it doesn't make sense from a user standpoint. "Additional Resources" conjures notions of free downloads or store locators, which this page got grouped with in the navigation. No one would imagine this as the page for finding out whether your character is legal for play. Simply adding a redundant link and changing the name of the link.

Also, users likely overlook the "create your character now" link in the PFS page because it follows four paragraphs and comes before the giant "Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Game Guild" heading. As a result, it's very easy for someone to overlook the link because their eyes are drawn away from the paragraphs and straight to the heading. More people would notice it if the link was put before the introduction or at the top of the navigation bar. Like other folks say in this thread, this is a web/visual design thing.

Sovereign Court

Maybe just make a link below the PFS banner on the main page, stating that it is for allowed material.

Per listing every item on the Additional Resources page and the space issues, could you not have expandable sections for each book? So all you see originally is a list of the books, which expand to show all the stuff inside? Maybe even another expandable section for the different categories (ie archetypes, items, feats etc). That should keep it at least more readable before looking for something specific.

Sovereign Court

Carla the Profane wrote:

I am displeased with the general user-friendlyness of the paizo website as a whole but right now it's the best thing we've got.

I've even postponed reporting sessions for half a year because I was so annoyed at the inaccesability of the most basic features like reporting or writing a scenario review. But that's a whole different discussion altogether...

With every single drop of content available through many different sources the day the physical copies are available in your FLGS, you'd think that paizo would make it easier to get that content with the click of a mouse. For me as a european with no interest in owning a credit card it feels ridiculous that it's more convenient to download the latest PDF on insert pirate website here even when i'm more than willing to spend a couple of bucks.

/rant

Actually, I'd argue that the best thing we got is "Archives of Nethys." Not only is it more user friendly for Classes, Races, Deities, Feats, Spells, Traits and etc, it's also easier to tell what is and isn't PFS legal. If only Paizo had as many people to work on their site as Archive of Nethys has[/sarcasm].

EDIT: Since I should make a helpful suggestion. The PRD could use PFS legal symbols with what is legal currently for PFS. Also, Additional Resources could be changed to "Resources Legal for PFS" and it adjusted to be easier to read. Presently it jumps from "these things are legal" and "these things aren't legal." May not be very easy to adjust, but I agree that some kind of change(s) need made to make things more user friendly. Presently I just use Archives of Nethys 90% of the time.

Ding Idea! -- Maybe making a Drop-Down Heading in the PRD similar to Bestiaries and having each Splatbook / Resource listed there with a page that States what IS legal in each. That would contain all the "What's Legal" stuff in the PRD, where it should be, and remove the need for a whole separate page that's a bit obscure for new PFS players.

*

Kysune wrote:


EDIT: Since I should make a helpful suggestion. The PRD could use PFS legal symbols with what is legal currently for PFS. Also, Additional Resources could be changed to "Resources Legal for PFS" and it adjusted to be easier to read. Presently it jumps from "these things are legal" and "these things aren't legal." May not be very easy to adjust, but I agree that some kind of change(s) need made to make things more user friendly. Presently I just use Archives of Nethys 90% of the time.

Ding Idea! -- Maybe making a Drop-Down Heading in the PRD similar to Bestiaries and having each Splatbook / Resource listed there with a page that States what IS legal in each. That would contain all the "What's Legal" stuff in the PRD, where it should be, and remove the need for a whole separate page that's a bit obscure for new PFS players.

I think the 'legal symbol' is a good idea (barring workload). However it implies the PRD is a legal source and I already see characters built on sources the player's don't own. I kind of assumed that's why chapters and page numbers are listed on the AR page. The PRD lists neither and only those with the book in front of them can check a source by page & chapter. Also the PRD doesn't have the protected Paizo sources. Just an assumption of course.

As an aside, sorry about the terrible typing-from-my-phone post earlier :P

4/5

A player at the table I ran yesterday noted that the term "Additional Resources" does not intuitively mean "Look here to see if this is legal for PFS play." Would it be possible to have the list of what is and is not currently PFS legal connected to the Guide to Organized Play so new PFS players are more likely to find it?

5/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

RealAlchemy wrote:
A player at the table I ran yesterday noted that the term "Additional Resources" does not intuitively mean "Look here to see if this is legal for PFS play." Would it be possible to have the list of what is and is not currently PFS legal connected to the Guide to Organized Play so new PFS players are more likely to find it?

This is already the case. The Additional Resources is the third topic covered in the Guide. In the Guide the Additional Resources is described as what is legal for use in the PFS campaign outside of the Core Assumption.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Why not a small list of items a first time player can reference showing the prohibited ones, like banned archetypes, original Summoners, etc, that a 1st level character would not be allowed if they showed up at a PFS session.

All of the banned prestige classes do not need to be listed since it will take a few sessions to get that far. Most other things can be swapped out in a minute or two like items, feats or traits.

*

You can tell new players what's legal in two words: Core Rulebook.


Curaigh wrote:
You can tell new players what's legal in two words: Core Rulebook.

Aren't Leadership, item creation feats, certain portions of the magic item rules, clerics without deities, and probably some other stuff I'm not aware of banned in PFS in spite of being in the Core Rulebook?

EDIT: The assassin PrC and all evil-aligned PCs are also banned. On the flip side, traits are not in the Core Rulebook.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Curaigh wrote:
You can tell new players what's legal in two words: Core Rulebook.

Some people are new to pfs but not pathfinder.

Silver Crusade 5/5

There were two ideas hit upon that I thought made sense to me. The first is renaming the Additional Resources page to something that is a bit more intuitive to new people, like maybe "PFS Legal Material". Related to that, maybe separating it out of player resources wouldn't be terrible, it might make it easier for people to spot.

The second was including the Additional Resources in the GtOP. Personally, I think that would make the guide too long, but what about putting the PDF for the latest AR document in the same ZIP as the newest guide when it comes out each year. Is that something that could work?

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I try and keep things as simple as I can for new players. My suggestion for new players is the core rulebook. Prestige classes, leadership, crafting feats* will not affect them until they have some history with the campaign. By which point they should know how 'core assumption' and 'additional resources' relate even if its not intuitive. Hopefully they have AR figured out before passing the level 1 rebuild opportunity. But by then I have the opportunity to go into more detail.

This thread is about those people who don't get the opportunity for 'more detail' though. That is the need to make AR more prominent (& phrased more intuitively got added).

*scribe scroll being the immediate exception. Which means you have to use more than two words if someone wants to play a wizard (or other caster with the intent of scribe scroll feat). Even if said player were to read the additional resources page, this would not show up: It is in PFSGOP.

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UndeadMitch wrote:
The second was including the Additional Resources in the GtOP. Personally, I think that would make the guide too long, but what about putting the PDF for the latest AR document in the same ZIP as the newest guide when it comes out each year. Is that something that could work?

Paizo updates the PFSGOP once a year. They put out three hardbacks, 12 adventure paths, 12 (I think) player companions, and other material in that same time. FAQs, playtests, and errata add even more change. The PDF AR would be out of date way too quickly.


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This thread is funny to me because I posted a similar thread years ago. To little response.

My idea was to add a graphic like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qn3wq4g1r7m1u7y/PFS-AllowedMaterials.png?dl=0

-j

Grand Lodge 4/5

UndeadMitch wrote:

There were two ideas hit upon that I thought made sense to me. The first is renaming the Additional Resources page to something that is a bit more intuitive to new people, like maybe "PFS Legal Material". Related to that, maybe separating it out of player resources wouldn't be terrible, it might make it easier for people to spot.

The second was including the Additional Resources in the GtOP. Personally, I think that would make the guide too long, but what about putting the PDF for the latest AR document in the same ZIP as the newest guide when it comes out each year. Is that something that could work?

Back in the early days of PFS, the Additional Resources were included as Page 30 (and maybe one or two more) in the Guide.

It was moved out, onto the web site, because it was too difficult to update for new releases as part of the Guide, and, additionally, because it rapidly grew too big for inclusion. Last time I looked, the Additional Resources PDF was something on the order of 32 pages, almost as big, on it sown, as the Guide itself.

And, as another observation, because of how infrequently the Guide is updated, it should just give the link to the web page with Venture Offer information, rather than include the current information at the time of publication in the Guide, since VOs change, sometimes rapidly. I believe there was a thread where someone had some issues contacting one of the VCs in the Guide, where it came out that he had since retired form being VC, which was updated on the web page but not, of course, the Guide.

Then again, IMO, most of the Guide should be moved online, into a multi-part web document, so that it can be updated or corrected as needed. And so that links to relevant information in the PRD could be added, like for stats and point buy for the character creation process, a whole, updateable section for the various factions and their traits,. etc.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Curaigh wrote:
UndeadMitch wrote:
The second was including the Additional Resources in the GtOP. Personally, I think that would make the guide too long, but what about putting the PDF for the latest AR document in the same ZIP as the newest guide when it comes out each year. Is that something that could work?
Paizo updates the PFSGOP once a year. They put out three hardbacks, 12 adventure paths, 12 (I think) player companions, and other material in that same time. FAQs, playtests, and errata add even more change. The PDF AR would be out of date way too quickly.

It would get out of date, but it would give new players something to start with. In my experience most of the new people I've seen have started with the CRB and possibly some other hardcovers. They could put a note to check the AR page for latest updates. Something is better than nothing.

The Additional Resources PDF is already something that is being kept up, including it in the Guide takes no extra work and costs nothing.

Dark Archive 5/5

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

Marty: most of it is static content that doesn't require update more than annually.

Really.

Grand Lodge 4/5

TetsujinOni wrote:

Marty: most of it is static content that doesn't require update more than annually.

Really.

Agreed. But it would be nice to be able to link to specific sections for answering our newcomers' questions. ;)

I should probably have put (wishful thinking) instead of IMO.

That, and some of the sections could be "living documents" for things like all the information on each faction as a whole; background, people of note, traits, ongoing desires/targets (faction goals for this season), special vanities, etc.

Don't mind me, I like to make other people work hard.

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