At low levels, if you take it, Scribe Scroll is your friend. Otherwise scrolls and low level wands in general are your cheapest way out until you can afford a Ring of Spell Storing or a staff.
Edit: For the price of a Runestone of Power, 1st Level, you can have 2 wands and 20 scrolls of 1st Level spells. That's 120 spells to tide you over until you can afford better, as opposed to 1 spell per day.
Runestones are probably what you want.
Core, there is Ring of Wizard which boosts spells/day for both Sorcs/Wiz (arcane only, no divine).
It costs a handful though: 20k for 1st level spells, 40k for 2nd level spells, 70k for 3rd levels, 100k for 4th levels...
(half if you make it yourself)
Yes, even if you have it as a Spell Known, scrolls are great for increased usages.
You just want to avoid doing that with spells that depend on DC/caster level...
(although CL is just a price issue, you can boost the CL of a scroll if you pay for it, of course)
I would look at the Tattooed Sorceror Archetype... it gives you a few 'free' daily Spell Tattoos that function as prepared spell slots, and also a separate "selectable" SLA ability that works similarly (albeit not changeable on daily basis). EDIT: Ah, Core only. Sorry.
Sounds like the Wizard can handle a lot of utility, and can provide scrolls cheaper than you buying them. Collaborate with him and make sure you have all the bases covered.
Is your concern Spells Known or Spell Slots?
From your comment on "single second level spell (flaming sphere) 4/day" it sounds like Spells Known, not Spell Slots.
Non-Core, Pages of Spell Knowledge handle that very well at reasonable cost, and Expanded Arcana Feat is also a non-Core option.
Core...? Probably you are looking at Human/etc Favored Class Bonus, which adds Spells Known *1 LEVEL BELOW* your max spell level.
Your Arcane Bloodline will also help you, though you have to wait for a while to kick in...
You might want to ask in PFS section which (if any) modules have treasure which would help you in this department.
(i.e. Runes of Power, or Pages of Spell Knowledge)
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it's 4th level...whatever, just get scrolls from the wizard, most of the monsters you would fight will die in 1 or 2 rounds. Buy a crossbow, load with bolts, shoot it. Use spells when you only have to, that is all you need.
If you really want more bangs for your bucks, just get Summon Monster 2, and let your summons fight for you. One summon lasting 4 rounds will last the entire fight for these low levels.
For Runestones of Power and Ring of Wizardry.
1st level - Runestones are far cheaper per spell.
2nd level - Equally expensive, ergo Runestones (being slotless) are better.
3rd level - Ring of Wizardry is somewhat less expensive per spell than Runestones.
Rings of Wizardry really are just aweful unless you go balls deep and get the very expensive kinds. Even then, they're only good for classes like Sorcerer, a Wizard is ALWAYS going to get better mileage out of Pearls of Power.
You can also get scribe scroll, but I don't think its worth one of the Sorc's few feats to save a little gold, especially since you save less than a Wizard on scribing scrolls.
Unless I am miss-remembering, sorcerers and other spontaneous casters cannot use Pearls of Power.
Naturally the first thing I thought of was simply boosting their casting stat...but that's 4k to start and that kind of wealth is a long way away.
There's some non-core items that mimic, albeit a higher cost (runestones of power)...though if we include non-core then wizards have that handy magecraft amulet to spontaneous cast an entire school with, lol.
So anyway, other than burning gold pieces via expendables, are there any permanent magic items that help and don't cost more than a +2 stat item? Hopefully something in the cost range of a Pearl of Power.
Thanks!
There are a number of good suggestions above. But nobody has suggested gaining experience and going up levels. This is surprising.
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Ring of Wizardry 1 is 20,000.
Staff of Fire is 18,950. Not going for the cheapest (Charming) which is still 17,600.Favored Class Options are not core.
Looks like consumables and save his pennies. :D
SM series probably better than Flaming Sphere though, time to dust off those monster stat block cards of mine...
Just to correct: Any FCB besides the hit point or skill point are not Core.
Consumables are useful.
Keeping an eye on what gets found can be useful, too. After all, the party has found at least a wand of Magic Missiles in their travails.
NB: The game is not PFS Core, it just, sort of, mimics it.
CRB, Web Traits, RotRL campaign traits, are, mostly, pre-authorized.
Anything else requires GM approval.
Some things have a good chance of being approved, and I need to add a list of things that should be legal that no one has asked me about, like the standard wrist sheath; others are lemme think about it; and still others (like Strix) are "No way, Jose!"
The game is Rise of the Runelords, Anniversary Edition, campaign mode for PFS credit.
GM decided, due to losing ground on both new PC options, and his sanity, to try and limit the campaign to Core, with approval on other things.
Due to some mis-steps by the players/PCs, we had a virtual TPK, leaving only one PC running loose. Due to most of the players building their replacement PCs, one of the original players found that we had had a miscommunication on PC build rules (he thought all Paizo was approved, 3PP needed approval; I think he missed the memo, although he responded to it with a "Sure thing!" message at the time.), he decided to withdraw from the game, which is where Rerednaw came in, as he had been first alternate.
Due to some bad rolls, a bad decision on NPC tactics on my part, and circumstances, including forgetting the FCB hit points, Mouse died in his first game. I should of had her go to the stairs and stand there, not in a corner, which led to the channels to try and clear the way out, instead of either running or continuing to try and whack the tank. Of course, that would have led to other issues, including the chance of killing off the Cleric, instead, since he was up those stairs, grappling the Wizard, at the time, IIRC.
I'm not a fan of restricting PCs to core bit keep the AP open to different books. Bit if it works for your group, great
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I'm not a fan of restricting PCs to core bit keep the AP open to different books. Bit if it works for your group, great
There were several reasons for it:
1) GM burnout prevention
2) This is, despite the rewrite to Pathfinder rules, still an older AP, and, really, predates Pathfinder, so originally built for old-style OGL.
3) It was written for 4 15 point buy PCs, with maybe one AC or familiar. I traded the non-PC for a 5th PC, and upped the point buy to 20.
I have still had some shenanigans going on, like the reach weapon/trip attacks build, without any of the feats because doing it via reach seldom allows the target to get their AoO.
Then again, IMO, the PC was frequently using trip attacks where a regular attack would have been a better choice. After all, as a Strength build, using a two-handed weapon, when is tripping a basic goblin (5 or 6 hit points) better than doing XdX+6 damage to them?
I'm not sure b) applies. Erylium for example is a witch in the rewrite.
However, the fact that I'm not fan of it has zero value at your table. Whatever works for you and your players is ok, and those who disagree can leave the game as the one mentioned above did.
About the efficiency of the group, being 4/5, 20 point buy or 15, it varies a lot from table to table. It depends in builds, clases, playstyle, etc. But near TPK before the BBEG should raise some alarma, imho
FCB are not core? you mean you are restricted to just one hard back book and nothing else? I always thought core included APG and ARG. In just that one book there arent many options at all for what you want. page of spell knowledge for versatility and ring of wizardry/staves for uses per day. I think the best advice was already given though, work with the wizard to set up a cache of scrolls for you two to work with.PFS Core only includes the CRB, Web Traits and Guide to Organised Play as legal sources.
This is not the PFS forum, though, and the OP didn't even indicate this was about PFS. If so, the thread should probably be moved.
Try talking to your GM about houseruling pearls of power to work with sorcerers.
It's total bull s#@$ that they don't.
if this is PFS, there's no house rules
At low levels, if you take it, Scribe Scroll is your friend. Otherwise scrolls and low level wands in general are your cheapest way out until you can afford a Ring of Spell Storing or a staff.
Edit: For the price of a Runestone of Power, 1st Level, you can have 2 wands and 20 scrolls of 1st Level spells. That's 120 spells to tide you over until you can afford better, as opposed to 1 spell per day.
Don't you have to know the spell to make a scroll of it?
Would you mind showing me where the OP says this is PFS? Last I checked this isn't the PFS board [I try to avoid that board, I hate the constraints of Organized Play.]
He mentions in a later post this is for ROTR Campaign mode for PFS. As it stands his GM is sticking some questionable restrictions on the players if they intend to report the sessions.
BUT, that said, the advice forum is the appropriate place to ask for advice even for PFS. The PFS forums aren't meant to encapsulate all PFS questions but only questions specific to the PFS campaign. This is a character advice question and as such is correctly placed in the advice forum.
Try talking to your GM about houseruling pearls of power to work with sorcerers.
It's total bull s!@% that they don't.
No it isn't. Pearls of Power don't let you cast any spell you know, only ones you've memorized AND expended. Runestones of Power have no such limitation and are thus arbitrarily more powerful.
Indeed PFS questions are permitted here, the reason I mentioned the board was because -in the absence of the OP calling out PFS- I assume the PFS board is the only place the conversation would automatically be about PFS.
It's not auto about PFS, but he mentions it here:
The game is Rise of the Runelords, Anniversary Edition, campaign mode for PFS credit.
GM decided, due to losing ground on both new PC options, and his sanity, to try and limit the campaign to Core, with approval on other things
That said, this is highly questionable. A PFS campaign allows everything not banned forma PFS, a PFS core campaign doesn't allow for "approval" of things.
So not sure how thus is PFS at all
Indeed PFS questions are permitted here, the reason I mentioned the board was because -in the absence of the OP calling out PFS- I assume the PFS board is the only place the conversation would automatically be about PFS.It's not auto about PFS, but he mentions it here:
The game is Rise of the Runelords, Anniversary Edition, campaign mode for PFS credit.
GM decided, due to losing ground on both new PC options, and his sanity, to try and limit the campaign to Core, with approval on other thingsThat said, this is highly questionable. A PFS campaign allows everything not banned forma PFS, a PFS core campaign doesn't allow for "approval" of things.
So not sure how thus is PFS at all
It sounds like a private game that the group intends to report as PFS. There is some leeway in private home games for GM's being more restrictive than the campaign as a whole, but as I understand it, it is frowned upon by leadership.
Try talking to your GM about houseruling pearls of power to work with sorcerers. It's total bull s!@% that they don't.No it isn't. Pearls of Power don't let you cast any spell you know, only ones you've memorized AND expended. Runestones of Power have no such limitation and are thus arbitrarily more powerful.
Pearls of Power are also Command activated, i.e. Standard Action, so you are not IMMEDIATELY able to re-cast the spell next round in the heat of battle, as you are able to do with Runestones of Power which just grant you an extra spell slot.
That said, I'd say it's "total bull s!@%" that PoP's (and adding spells to spellbooks outside of level-up spells) are Core,but Runestones/PagesofSpellKnowledge/ExpandedArcana are not. Those having higher cost is justified,
but not having access to such means at all just gimps Sorcerors vs. Wizards.
Remember, for PFS campaign mode, the rules of what's legal for PFS play don't apply anymore.
Campaign mode means that the group can play it through, fully, with any rules set on by the GM, and report it.
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Obviously you haven't played enough sorcerors.
With the right gear (Pages of Spell knowledge, Spontaneous Versatility, Ring of Spell Knowledge, Mnemonic Vestment), the Sorceror will easily end up with access to more spells Right Now, then ANY wizard. top off that with FC bonuses for more spells known, and Paragon Surge shenanigans, it can get messy.
Metamagic works better for sorcs then wizards because wizards must always prepare it in advance, and burn high level spell slots on meta'd low level spells. The Sorc, in turn, can apply his metas to any and every single spell he knows that they qualify for. If all the Sorc ever takes is Extend Spell for out of combat buffs, Maximize Spell for opening round maximal blasting, and Quicken Spell to get off two spells from his copious slots/round, he'll use them far, far more over the course of his career then any wizard will.
the Ring of Spell knowledge alone assures that a Sorc can tote around a cheap spellbook and have access to any low level spell in it with exactly ONE ROUND of need, and switch it on and off all day. He can even use spells not on his list! (Sorc using CMW from a 3rd level slot, for example!)
==Aelryinth
Would you mind explaining that justification for me Quandary?
Nobody is justifying Wiz/Sorc design here AFAIK,
rather the issue is what items do and the costing associated with that,items that do more / have less restrictions cost more: basic item design 101.
EDIT: Well, OK, now somebody (Ael) is justifying Wiz/Sorc design per your invitation to do so... enjoy!
Anyways, I was going off of Commander's comment... I don't actually see any problem with your proposal,
namely, houserule Pearls of Power to work for Sorcerors: with the exact same limitations as for Wizards
(i.e. Standard Action to use, which then gives you a 'prepared' slot fixed with the spell chosen at time of activation)
Runestones can exist in parallel, for those who want their benefits.
I do agree with Ael that non-Core expansions have disproportionately benefitted Sorc, (and much should really be Core)
I haven't ever used the Ring, but FavClass, Exp Arcana, Pages, and Mnemonic Vest really fill in the gap.
(Runestones don't really change the bigger picture, it's just more of the same for Sorcs)
Wizards also get equivalent FavClass, but it's 'merely' free loot/more of the same, rather than (previously) unattainable ability for Sorcs.
The Vest is awesome, changing the dynamic with scrolls from excluding Save/CL-dependent spells to promoting them,
as well as letting scrolls function as permanent investments (like adding to spellbook) rather than 1-use $ drains.
I find the dynamic is similar to Bonded Item for Wizards, in that both casters don't really need spontaneous access/broader access
for every spell cast, as you can easily have a broadly useful "load out" (prepped/known) but having a 1/day "exception" really covers the cases where prepares slots/narrow spontaneity may hamper you... Bonded Item being Core, so again, something that should be Core for Sorcs.
Remember, for PFS campaign mode, the rules of what's legal for PFS play don't apply anymore.
Campaign mode means that the group can play it through, fully, with any rules set on by the GM, and report it.
Ah, that makes more sense then. I stand corrected.
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I've played three of them in Pathfinder and another four in 3.5.
I've played them at the height of Arcane Spell Surge Greater Arcane Thesis Arcane-Thesis'd Arcane Fusion with Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry for emergency defense and blasting-when-it-felt-right between 'god wizard' style support play. I've also played them in PF, from the start through the year before last.
I've played a similar number of wizards and outperformed the Sorcerer every time, not because of lack of experience or lack of skill with a Sorcerer, but because the Wizard is a spellcaster who gets the advantage in every area possible except more flexibility in the primary list. [Unlike the Sorcerer though, that limited primary list changes day to day according to the needs of the adventure.]
It is true I haven't played a Sorcerer who obtained a Ring of Spell Knowledge though, but trading significant wads of cash for additional comparatively lower level spells known seems handy but unlikely to have a great impact overall.
As for metamagic working better? That's a load of bull and you should know better Aelrynth, you're a vet from the Gleemax days. Yes a Sorcerer can apply metamagic more reliably, but they sacrifice the ability to move to do so and that tactical movement is damn handy particularly in the earlier to mid levels that see the most play.
EDIT: also, you should know Paragon Surge is a sloppy patch, the system should have been better written from the start.
Come on, Kryt, sorcerors approach metamagic differently then Wizards do.
Who makes better use of Extend? Sorcs, because its an out of combat buff thing where the extra casting time means nothing.
Maximize/Empower? Sorcs, it's an opening ambush attack thing where movement isn't relevant, or a finishing move for same.
Quicken? Sorcs, they have the extra spell slots to blow on extra spells, and there's no move penalty involved.
Sure, the wizard can do better with random metas applied to specific spells - usually ONE key spell - but the Sorc can do equally well if he manages how he uses his metas. Basically, opening round or closing round if there is a move penalty, or, at higher levels, with a quickened spell to blip to a different location.
It's all in how you approach use of the spell. And with Versatile Spontaneity, you can even pre-memorize meta'd spells, or ANY spell, just like a wizard.
The Ring of Spell Knowledge is actually quite cheap for what it does, which is allow you to add a Spell to your spells known simply by reading a spell or seeing it cast. That basically means any utility spell at the drop of a hat. Or arcane spells from other lists, like bard CURE spells, which the wizard can't pull off at all.
Sorcs who use the FC bonus for extra spells can ride additional spells on top of this, further covering all bases without having to go looking. The broad array of spells is generally enough to have utility and cover almost all situations.
It's a different style of play, but unless the wizard specifically knows the foe and has the tools to counter, its not inferior.
The Ring basically gives the sorc instant access to the wizard's ability to customize abilities, or go book-diving in an empty spell slot. FC bonus adds +2 Spells Known per level, a 50% increase over 20 levels. Versatile Spontaneity allows them to memorize spells, particularly meta'd spells.
So, the tools are there.
The wizard's biggest advantage vs the sorc isn't the spells...it's the fact Int gives more skills, and they end up with more choices of feats to take then Sorcs do.
They are also better at taking one spell and one meta combo and beating it to death with a rock called Spell Perfection/Magical Lineage/Wayang Spellhunter.
But with the right metas and combos? Sorcs don't have problems if they use them wisely.
==Aelryinth
+ Arcane Bloodline's Metamagic Adept/Apotheosis.
Easy for any Sorc to pick up MM Adept via Eldritch Heritage, and Familiar/Bonded Item is great 1st EH.
(CHA is no prob, EH:Arcane works w/ any SF:Knowledge/ many BL Bonus Feats include some SF:Knowledge)
:Normal casting time MM when you need/want it, the rest of the time you never waste higher level spell slots on preparing Metamagic that you don't end up needing.
Tattooed Sorc Archetype is also interesting in this regard, it's Spell Tattoos come with free Silent Spell,
and AFAIK there's nothing stopping you from using MM when creating those Spell Tattoos.
Also there is it's Enhanced Magical Tattoo SLA, effectively free Still + Silent,
which must be of a spell you know (could be thru ring, vest) WHEN YOU PICK IT
but you can still use the SLA if later you no longer know that spell.