Can a rogue take Craft:Alchemy and make his own poisons in PFS? If so, how does it work?
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Okay, I have more time now to explain how all of this works.
Here is the what the FAQ says about poison and crafting.
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of “always available poisons” (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a chronicle sheet. Alchemists, ninja, and poisoner rogues may only purchase the following poisons from the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook:
Giant wasp poison
Large scorpion venom
Medium spider venom
Shadow essence
Small centipede poisonPaladins, per their code of conduct, may not use poisons, but they don’t necessarily view the use of poisons as an evil to be opposed—it’s simply something their code prohibits them from doing themselves.
Alchemists and rogues with the poisoner archetype and the Master Poisoner ability can use Craft (alchemy) to produce poisons (see "How can alchemists craft in Pathfinder Society Organized Play?").
Alchemists can use the Craft (alchemy) skill to produce items with their Alchemy ability. Follow the Craft rules on pages 91–93 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook as well as in the alchemist’s Alchemy ability description. Any item created must be properly noted on that scenario’s Chronicle sheet. Under "Items Bought", note the amount of gold spent and the item created. Alchemists are assumed, for Pathfinder Society Organized Play, to carry the necessary items and tools with them to use available resources to create alchemical items. If they have a base of operations from which to do so, they may use an alchemy lab to gain the +2 bonus on their Craft (alchemy) check. Alchemists may never sell any of their created items nor may they trade them to another PC. However, they may allow other PCs to borrow or use items they’ve created (so long as the alchemist class ability being used allows them to do so).
Note that the list of available poisons in the first part is not up to date and should also include the other poisons that the Additional Resources document lists as legal from Ultimate Equipment. The complete list of poisons that is always available from the Core Rulebook is:
black adder venom
bloodroot
giant wasp poison
greenblood oil
large scorpion venom
malyass root paste
medium spider venom
nitharit
shadow essence
small centipede poison
terinav root.
(Note that if you use the bloodroot found in Ultimate Equipment it is slightly more powerful than the bloodroot found in the Core Rulebook—it additionally causes the confused condition for the target.)
Here is a link to the crafting rules. If you cannot beat the DC by taking 10 on the check, then you should make the rolls in front of your next GM.
And here is a link to the Alchemist. There isn't much in there except that alchemists get a bonus to their Craft (alchemy) checks.
Here is a link the the poisoner archetype. Note the 3rd-level ability.
Master Poisoner (Ex): At 3rd level, a poisoner can use Craft (alchemy) to change the type of a poison. This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist's lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to the poison's DC. If successful, the poison's type changes to contact, ingested, inhaled, or injury. If the check fails, the poison is ruined. The poisoner also receives a bonus on Craft (alchemy) skill checks when working with poison equal to 1/2 her rogue level. This ability replaces trap sense.
I hope that helps.
There are also poisons available in the hero's of the wild
The entire idea behind this character was the use of Drow Poison. I think it's pretty crappy that it's not available for use in PFS play. A Rogue who poisons his/her weapons just seems to be right thing to do, and to have that ability made moot upsets me.
Thankfully I haven't played a session at level 2 yet so I can rebuild out of Poisoner if the available poisons are as bad as I'm guessing.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree with most others. Poisons do not have the same effect as a player as they do with an NPC. Poisons are best for the loosing side as the delayed effect can enact revenge.
That being said, if you want to role play a poisoner go for it. It still has a positive effect on the outcome of an encounter and fun always trumps optimization.
I am currently starting a Grippli Alchemist who will be using their poison ability. The ability is actually pretty good for a poison build as their is no cost for the poison and the DC scales with level and Con.
|
|
The entire idea behind this character was the use of Drow Poison. I think it's pretty crappy that it's not available for use in PFS play. A Rogue who poisons his/her weapons just seems to be right thing to do, and to have that ability made moot upsets me.
Thankfully I haven't played a session at level 2 yet so I can rebuild out of Poisoner if the available poisons are as bad as I'm guessing.
Blue whinnis is a good substitute for drow poison and is available.
BLUE WHINNIS
Type poison, injury; Save Fortitude DC 14
Frequency 1/round for 2 rounds
Initial Effect 1 Con damage; Secondary Effect unconsciousness for 1d3 hours; Cure 1 save
DROW POISON
Type poison, injury; Save Fortitude DC 13
Frequency 1/minute for 2 minutes
Initial Effect unconsciousness for 1 minute; Secondary Effect unconsciousness for 2d4 hours; Cure 1 save
I am playing the Unchained Rogue, and was hoping to use the Poisoner Archetype for some flavor/fun, and then transition to a Shadowdancer for the Shade. A sneaky Tengu with a Shade following behind him...I just find this to be wonderful.
Another question regarding the Secondary Effect? How does that work exactly? Fails his save first round and takes the CON damage, and then fails the save in round two and falls unconscious? Thats almost acceptable. Thanks for the tip Fox.
BTW Fox, you play a little PFS in the Portland area?
|
|
Another question regarding the Secondary Effect? How does that work exactly? Fails his save first round and takes the CON damage, and then fails the save in round two and falls unconscious? Thats almost acceptable. Thanks for the tip Fox.
Yep. Note also that if you can hit your target with more than one dose of poison, then the save DC increases by a cumulative +2 for each dose after the first, and the duration increases by half the original duration for each additional dose. It is more expensive, but it is a good way to make your poisons more effective.
Unlike other afflictions, multiple doses of the same poison stack. Poisons delivered by injury and contact cannot inflict more than one dose of poison at a time, but inhaled and ingested poisons can inflict multiple doses at once. Each additional dose extends the total duration of the poison (as noted under frequency) by half its total duration. In addition, each dose of poison increases the DC to resist the poison by +2. This increase is cumulative. Multiple doses do not alter the cure conditions of the poison, and meeting these conditions ends the affliction for all the doses. For example, a character is bit three times in the same round by a trio of Medium monstrous spiders, injecting him with three doses of Medium spider venom. The unfortunate character must make a DC 18 Fortitude save for the next 8 rounds. Fortunately, just one successful save cures the character of all three doses of the poison.
BTW Fox, you play a little PFS in the Portland area?
I do not. I'm in Spokane.
SO, a couple more questions regarding poison use. Is there any way to raise the DC other than applying multiple doses? A Feat or Rogue talent?
Also, it was mentioned above that Blue Whinnis was available, but I don't see it listed on the list that was also provided in this thread. Is it available?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Alchemist has the concentrate poison discovery
Benefit: The alchemist can combine two doses of the same poison to increase their effects. This requires two doses of the poison and 1 minute of concentration. When completed, the alchemist has one dose of poison. The poison’s frequency is extended by 50% and the save DC increases by +2. This poison must be used within 1 hour of its creation or it is ruined.
|
|
Also, it was mentioned above that Blue Whinnis was available, but I don't see it listed on the list that was also provided in this thread. Is it available?
Oops, that was my mistake. I'm sorry. Blue whinnis is not always available. I think it appears on a chronicle somewhere (but I might be mistaken about that also). :/
|
Remember, just because you can "craft" poisons with Alchemists, Rogues, and Ninja's that get the Master Poisoner ability, does not mean you can exceed the purchase limits on chronicle sheets.
Most poisons on a chronicle sheet show up as a limit of 1 or mabye 2 doses.
That's all you get to purchase. I'd rule that you could halve the cost on the chronicle sheet just as if you "crafted" it, but you don't get the ability to "craft" said limited poison an unlimited number of times.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I wanted to make an alchemist, but I didn't want the poison use, swift alchemy, and swift poisoning class features to go to waste. I also had only a basic idea of the complex poison rules in PFS. These were reason enough to jump in and make a Dex-based melee alchemist poisoner. I figured because he would be in melee that he could lead the party with the trap spotter rogue talent. This meant taking the inferior crypt breaker archetype, but I was happy to do it. I decided on the following discoveries, but will likely take the feat extra discovery to unlock more options. These are pulling from multiple sources. A short note, I've done a lot of research and even though I've decided to make a character for PFS that uses poison, I fully expect most scenarios to either not use them or find them to be ineffective. As BigNorseWolf said earlier in the thread: Combats tend to be quick.
Discoveries
- (2nd) Trap Spotter
- (4th) Concentrate Poison: The alchemist can combine two doses of the same poison to increase their effects. This requires two doses of the poison and 1 minute of concentration. When completed, the alchemist has one dose of poison. The poison’s frequency is extended by 50% and the save DC increases by +2. This poison must be used within 1 hour of its creation or it is ruined.
- (6th) Sticky Poison: Any poison the alchemist creates is sticky—when the alchemist applies it to a weapon, the weapon remains poisoned for a number of strikes equal to the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier.
- (8th) Celestial Poisons: The alchemist is able to infuse poisons with celestial power so they can affect evil creatures that are normally immune to poison. Any poison the alchemist administers to a weapon can affect undead and evil outsiders, bypassing their inherent immunities. Magical effects that negate poisons still apply. If a creature fails its save, the poison acts as normal, but may have no effect on the creature, depending on the effect of the poison (such as dealing Constitution damage to undead).
- (10th) Malignant Poison: As a full-round action, the alchemist can increase the save DC of any poison by 4 and increase its duration by 2 frequency increments (for example, large scorpion venom lasts 8 rounds instead of 6 and drow poison lasts 4 minutes instead of 2). Additionally, malignant poisons take effect immediately and do not have an onset time. This alchemical change lasts until the poison's extended duration ends or for a number of minutes equal to the alchemist's level, whichever comes first. After that, the poison reverts back to its original state.