Crazy Kineticists: more elements!


Homebrew and House Rules

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Taking inspiration from comics, games etc, what would you add as elements? bones, light, darkness, shadows, blood, plants...


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Metal, wood, spirit, life/healing, time, light, shadow, and gravity.


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Antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium, and hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium....

Dark Archive

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Definitely Metal and Wood, to cover the Chinese elements. Also Void.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Honestly, I'd go with the concept of creating new elements by combining existing ones. Combine fire and earth to create magma.


Metal is already Earth+Earth. I agree Wood would be a good addition, though.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium, and hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium....

Uranium is a mythic element, and provides the ultimate blast spell.

Scarab Sages

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I'd like to see Positive/Negative energy Kineticists. I think it's thematic and fits the established magic. Sonic would also be a good one. Maybe even something like a Black Blood kineticist.


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Arachnofiend wrote:
Metal is already Earth+Earth. I agree Wood would be a good addition, though.

Metal is one of the classic Chinese elements. Not so much a combination, but a different system -- the Chinese don't have Air, but do have Water, Wood, Fire, Earth, and Metal.

The've actually got a quite complex system of alchemy based around this, one that puts Empedocles and Plato to shame.


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lemeres wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium, and hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium....
Uranium is a mythic element, and provides the ultimate blast spell.

Some of us got passing grades in Chem.


There's also the 5th Greek element Aether [or Quintessence, in Latin], which may or may not be the same as Void depending upon how bad your Greek is.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Orfamay Quest wrote:
There's also the 5th Greek element Aether [or Quintessence, in Latin], which may or may not be the same as Void depending upon how bad your Greek is.

Kineticist already has Aether which covers the basic telekinetic abilities.

Scarab Sages

Metal and Wood for rounding out proper Aleran Furycrafters. Light and Shadow could be fun, or Positive and Negative energy.


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I was thinking of making a vitakinesis element. Have it create flesh and bone and claws and stuff, with it's energy damage being positive.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Metal is already Earth+Earth. I agree Wood would be a good addition, though.

Metal is one of the classic Chinese elements. Not so much a combination, but a different system -- the Chinese don't have Air, but do have Water, Wood, Fire, Earth, and Metal.

The've actually got a quite complex system of alchemy based around this, one that puts Empedocles and Plato to shame.

I understand that, but from a game perspective having metal be the ultimate evolution of geokineticism and metal also just being its own thing doesn't really work.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Carbon.

A very versatile element to control, Armour and weapons as hard as diamonds, or tools as soft as graphite.


I'd definitely like to see some 2e demi-elements, like earth and fire turning into magma, water and fire turning into steam, earth and wind as dust, and so on.


John Doe 768 wrote:
I'd definitely like to see some 2e demi-elements, like earth and fire turning into magma, water and fire turning into steam, earth and wind as dust, and so on.

This is already a thing (though earth + air = sand).


John Doe 768 wrote:
I'd definitely like to see some 2e demi-elements, like earth and fire turning into magma, water and fire turning into steam, earth and wind as dust, and so on.

That was already built in to Kineticists. At least the Playtest version was able to combine elements to form combinational effects such as magma, mud, dust, electrified water..


I would also like to see positive and negative energy.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium, and hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium....
Uranium is a mythic element, and provides the ultimate blast spell.

Some of us got passing grades in Chem.

Hell, some of us actually had to help the teacher do the chemistry problems.

True story- due to errors in the system, I had to be moved to the 'extra' chem class taught by a coach. He needed me to do the chemical equations for him. Or rather, for the examples for the class.

I did not get a good chemistry education, consequently. But I turned out well enough.

Silver Crusade

The most important element.

With it, I can always attack first! And, uhhh. Not sure what else, but the first turn of combat ought to be fun.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
Antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium, and hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium....

There may be many others but they haven't been dis-cah-vered.

Now That Song is going to be stuck in my head for a week at least.


Did they say we were getting more elements?


I kind of love the idea that a Kineticist is a conduit to the plane associated to their power. On that note, i'd like to see all planes eventually become an option. Maybe the more distant planes are locked behind an archetype or prestige class (i.e. you can add good to known elements but once done you lock your alignement or blasts deal half damage until you atone. all blasts act as if enchanted with the good enchantment though or deal a die larger against evil something like that.) Also, a high level talent that lets you travel to the plane associated to a known element 1/day or the like.


So your saying you want holy, unholy, axiomatic, anarchic related blasts?


I CHANNEL THE POWER OF LIMBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Dragon78 wrote:
So your saying you want holy, unholy, axiomatic, anarchic related blasts?

I think he means more the planes of Positive and Negative energy.

A kineticist linked to the plane of Positive Energy would be a biokineticist (vita is a latin root) and have a positive energy blast that heals people and harms undead. If chosen as both primary and secondary element gains a Holy blast that deals blunt damage and does extra damage against evil targets. Other powers would include controlling plants and animals, some degree of shapeshifting, healing, and some other holy powers.

A kineticist linked to the plane of Negative Energy would be a necrokineticist and have a negative energy blast. Other powers could include causing disease, generating pure entropy, and general necromancy abilities.

A kineticist linked with the Shadow Plane would be an umbrokinetic (the greek version is skiakinetic and it just doesn't work) and have a shadow blast that is touch and can deal blunt, piercing or cutting damage but can be disbelieved and only deal half damage. Powers would revolve around controlling shadows, stealth and illusions. Fire Kineticists got would get some light using powers to balance.

Finnaly a kineticist linked to the Astral plane would be a psychokinetic and have a mind blast or the ability to make and throw psychic weapons. He would have some telekinesis but more focused on fine motion and without access to lift large weights or flying. Other powers would include telepathy and teleport, some mental attacks, and some time related powers.

That should cover the whole D&D type cosmology, unless you start making kineticists based on Heaven, Hell and other Outer Planes, but that would be too much work. Maybe a single theokineticist with varying blasts and powers depending on which outer planes he connects...


I would be down for all those plus a light based one with rainbow blast so we can finally have a magical girl or a lot of things from the 80's;)

Dark Archive

VM mercenario wrote:

I think he means more the planes of Positive and Negative energy.

A kineticist linked to the plane of Positive Energy would be a biokineticist (vita is a latin root) and have a positive energy blast that heals people and harms undead. If chosen as both primary and secondary element gains a Holy blast that deals blunt damage and does extra damage against evil targets. Other powers would include controlling plants and animals, some degree of shapeshifting, healing, and some other holy powers.

A kineticist linked to the plane of Negative Energy would be a necrokineticist and have a negative energy blast. Other powers could include causing disease, generating pure entropy, and general necromancy abilities.

A kineticist linked with the Shadow Plane would be an umbrokinetic (the greek version is skiakinetic and it just doesn't work) and have a shadow blast that is touch and can deal blunt, piercing or cutting damage but can be disbelieved and only deal half damage. Powers would revolve around controlling shadows, stealth and illusions. Fire Kineticists got would get some light using powers to balance.

Finnaly a kineticist linked to the Astral plane would be a psychokinetic and have a mind blast or the ability to make and throw psychic weapons. He would have some telekinesis but more focused on fine motion and without access to lift large weights or flying. Other powers would include telepathy and teleport, some mental attacks, and some time related powers.

That should cover the whole D&D type cosmology, unless you start making kineticists based on Heaven, Hell and other Outer Planes, but that would be too much work. Maybe a single theokineticist with varying blasts and powers depending on which outer planes he connects...

All very cool ideas, the bio/necro/umbra/psycho kinetics.

I think the Occult classes probably fit better with the 'Inner' (Elemental) and 'Transitive' (Astral, Ethereal, Shadow, First World?) planes, than they would with the Abyss, Elysium, etc.

Which begs the question of what a First World 'kineticist' would look like. Ooh...


A first world based kineticist, that would the light/rainbow based one of course;) But seriously it would more then likely be a nature one with powers based on animals and/or plants. Maybe an archetype that turns you into a fey and grants illusion, enchantment, and transmutation based abilities.


I like the planar connection idea so elemental planes? sure! shadow and astral? of course! an archetype to link to the abyss? sounds occult to me! Basically both of what Dragon 78 and VM Mercenario said.


VM mercenario wrote:


I think he means more the planes of Positive and Negative energy.

A kineticist linked to the plane of Positive Energy would be a biokineticist (vita is a latin root) and have a positive energy blast that heals people and harms undead. If chosen as both primary and secondary element gains a Holy blast that deals blunt damage and does extra damage against evil targets. Other powers would include controlling plants and animals, some degree of shapeshifting, healing, and some other holy powers.

Ugh... Why would you link positive and good. Positive is meant to be neutral.


maybe to gain an outer plane such as good you have to double down on an intermediate plane such as positive energy to reach the further one such as a good aligned plane?


Torbyne wrote:
maybe to gain an outer plane such as good you have to double down on an intermediate plane such as positive energy to reach the further one such as a good aligned plane?

Wouldn't work, positive is further away from the outer planes than the material is.

Dark Archive

Actually to balance it the positive energy blast would still do damage as you would OD on positive energy and it would cause damage to everything instead, but you could take a talent to lessen its intensity so you could use it for healing like 3+Conmod/day or something so it would be similar to channel energy. Honestly the one archetype I would want would be a babylonian kineticist that would allow you to focus on the elements as individual deities(like a sect of the Green Faith). So you would be a Sea Kineticist or a Sky Kineticist and you would have more religious based abilities.


Milo v3 wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
maybe to gain an outer plane such as good you have to double down on an intermediate plane such as positive energy to reach the further one such as a good aligned plane?
Wouldn't work, positive is further away from the outer planes than the material is.

Are you sure about that? i just went along with it when i first read your reply but it bugged me so i went off and checked: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/planarAdventures.html where positive and negative are inner planes at the same "distance" from the material as the elemental planes.

Anyways, there are six inner planes, three transitive planes and at least nine major outer planes. I'd like to be able to build a character able to tap into any of those planes. Plus it fits my head canon that they draw power from a link to the planes instead of any inner whatever like sorcerers do.


I think it would be cool to have an element for every inner plane and transitive plane. As for the outer planes we only need one good, evil, law, chaos and maybe a neutral based one to cover those.


Torbyne wrote:
Are you sure about that? i just went along with it when i first read your reply but it bugged me so i went off and checked: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/planarAdventures.html where positive and negative are inner planes at the same "distance" from the material as the elemental planes.

Positive/Negative are at the same "distance" from the material as the elemental planes (sorta). I'm saying positive/negative are at a different distance to the outer planes than the material. There is a map of the planes in the Inner Sea World Guide, the positive energy plane is inside of the material (with negative inside the shadow) plane, while the traditional elemental planes surround the material plane, from their it then expands from the astral plane to the Inner Sphere.

Traveling to the outerplanes from the positive would require crossing one extraplane (the material), so it's further away "cosmologically", than the material plane is.

Quote:
Anyways, there are six inner planes, three transitive planes and at least nine major outer planes. I'd like to be able to build a character able to tap into any of those planes. Plus it fits my head canon that they draw power from a link to the planes instead of any inner whatever like sorcerers do.

Yep sounds good to me. But positive should not equal holy. Good would be a different "cosmological element" to positive.


Yep sounds good to me. But positive should not equal holy. Good would be a different "cosmological element" to positive.

Oh, i havent seen that map, now i get what you are saying. Either way, i want to link to all the planes eventually. Also on board with positive not equalling good, maybe it heals 1D4 instead of 1D6 or emits in a cone of non biased healing. You would need some kind of burn for doing so, but maybe it still heals you of regular damage at the same time.

I think there is some room in the class for a positive/negative channeler who can do composite blasts of unblockable damage. Kind of like how some divine spells deal half damage through any DR or resistance? Take some raw, cosmic force to the face!


Maybe the positive energy blast does non-lethal damage unless there undead or it can only heal once per day per person.


It would be cool if it was 1/day per person targeted and restored 1d4 stat points in addition to HP. Or excess healing sticks around as temporary hit points for rounds/level?


Maybe the positive energy based one would get lay on hands with the mercys as well.


You could have the positive energy blast give temp hp like positive energy planes did in 3.5, when the temp hp is equal or greater to the creatures normal total HP it must make a dc 20 fort save or explode in a riot of energy. Granted this would be much weaker then most blasts, but it would be a lot of fun.


Vibranium.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Positive and Negative energy.

Positive: Damage undead, and heal living. Animate plantlife, buff up allies, steal heals from clerics.

Negative: Heal undead and damage living. Animate and control undead, buff up allies, turn negative channels back on clerics.


Here are some ideas, be energy-based or not ;)

* Acid Blast (Simple; Earth)
* Positive Energy Blast (Composite; Fire)
* Negative Energy Blast (Composite; Water; reasoning being Water is associated to life... and the dark abysses)
* Sonic Blast (Simple; Air)
* GREATER Force Blast (Composite; Aether; deals Composite Blast damage)
* Poison Blast (Composite; Earth; Acid or Metal Blast required; Some metals are toxic, so...)
* Light Blast (Composite; Fire; damage similar to Searing Light)
* Darkness Blast (Composite; Water; damage similar to Searing Light, in reverse)
* Alignment Blast (Composite; Any blast; dealing damage to a specific alignment)
* Bane Blast (Composite; Any blast; dealing damage to a specific creature type)
* Blinding/Deafening/Frightening/Exhausting/Staggering Blast (Composite; Any blast)
* Conductive Blast (Infusion; Any blast basically, transfering Blast damage to a single melee attack, be manufactured or natural, or be melee or ranged.)

Dark Archive

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Cyrocloud2 wrote:
You could have the positive energy blast give temp hp like positive energy planes did in 3.5, when the temp hp is equal or greater to the creatures normal total HP it must make a dc 20 fort save or explode in a riot of energy. Granted this would be much weaker then most blasts, but it would be a lot of fun.

A positive energy blast could inflict minimal damage (or only nonlethal damage), but have a side-effect of animating material. In the case of an attack on a person, they'd suffer the entangled condition as their clothing and armor animates and begins writhing around, perhaps even with a side of constriction damage until the effect ends (might only last 1 round, or possibly multiple rounds at higher levels).

A utility blast at an unattended object could turn it into an animated object for a number of rounds (with increasing duration and the ability to affect larger items, at higher level).

A scary potential would be to use positive energy to supercharge a disease or infestation, causing it to progress immediately (as if a day had passed). It might help the target burn out a disease sooner, if they save, but it also risks exposing them to immediate ability damage / effects, if they fail that Fort save (and the positive energy reinforcement of the disease organism might make the DC higher, as well!). Alternately, the same thing could be done with a negative energy effect, by targeting the person, and not the disease, and weakening their resistance (and could similarly effect a poisoned target, causing them to suffer the next stage immediately).

Other random thoughts;

Destructive Gather - for Fire Kineticists, draws heat from the surrounding area during the gather energy process, causing cold damage to all within 20 ft. (except the Kineticist) as if exposed to extreme cold for 10 minutes, or severe cold for 1 minute, depending on the level. Even the process of gathering energy can be dangerous for those near you, when you use this ability (and it gives you a weak AoE cold attack, for those encounters with fire-immune enemies).

Wood Kineticists, form masses of woody plant material that can be shaped into bludgeoning or piercing physical attacks, with a variant blast that shoots entangling vines at the foe that act similar to a constrictor snake. Utility effects include causing a storm of leaves or flower petals or pollen to fill an area, with effects ranging from glitterdust (leaves or petals) to stinking cloud (pollen). Big bad effect is to blast a tree and animate it to attack foes, or to seize control of a plant creature.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Kineticists should be able to suffer a bit of burn damage to pull off really big scale attacks in the right environment. a fire kinetictist in a burning building could create a massive pillar of flame, or a intense beam of heat that deals a massive amount of fire damage. makes the combination of a fire kineticist, wind kineticist and earth kineticist devastating when they work together to create dust devils(the fire tornado phenomena, not a devil of dust.)

I would also allow for a blood kineticist to take a lot of burn damage to start dragging all the blood in the room (that isn't in someones body) into a pool of free blood for attacks and effects. Also might add a trick for a blood kineticist to perform a touch attack on a living creature (with blood) that has been reduced to 20 hit points or less to make a fortitude save or die, as the blood kineticist forces the targets blood to violently rebel against its host, either causing them to explode or have all their blood ripped out of their body. if they pass their save, they take 5d6(or More) points of unreducable damage with no elemental affinity.

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