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Might need to specify that in the Organized play rules since it is not listed there.
Step 5: Feats
Characters select feats according to the guidelines in
the Core Rulebook. Certain Core Rulebook feats are not
available to Pathfinder Society characters. These include
Brew Potion, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod,
Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Forge
Ring, Leadership, and Scribe Scroll.Neither the craft feats nor the item creation section of
the magic items chapter in the Core Rulebook are legal for
play. Additionally, except for specific examples cited in
this guide or the Pathfinder Society FAQ, crafting of
mundane items is not allowed in Pathfinder Society.
Did the feat ever get sorted out? I see that it was mentioned 3 years ago but no mention if it was banned or not since it can be used to craft Magic Armor/Weapons and Wondrous items by non-casters.
Something to point out: Master Craftsman cannot be used to craft magic items. It can be used to qualify for feats that allow you to craft magic items, but not to craft them directly,... and those feats are already banned.
Since Master Craftsman also gives you a +2 bonus on your skill that stacks with everything, I could see someone who really wants to max his day job roll wanting to take that feat -- so I don't think it's appropriate to ban it.
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Did the feat ever get sorted out? I see that it was mentioned 3 years ago but no mention if it was banned or not since it can be used to craft Magic Armor/Weapons and Wondrous items by non-casters.Something to point out: Master Craftsman cannot be used to craft magic items. It can be used to qualify for feats that allow you to craft magic items, but not to craft them directly,... and those feats are already banned.
Since Master Craftsman also gives you a +2 bonus on your skill that stacks with everything, I could see someone who really wants to max his day job roll wanting to take that feat -- so I don't think it's appropriate to ban it.
Its a craft feat, so its banned.
Really, if someone has taken skill focus craft, AND the +3 to dayjob checks feat out of the primer and is STILL eyeing this as a feat you're doing them a favor by stopping them.
Friends don't let friends waste feats on dayjob checks...
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Master Craftsman is not banned by Additional Resources since it is not listed in the Item creation Feats. It is a mostly-useless feat to take since the only effect is a +2 on one Craft skill.
If you are spending a feat (or any other resource) to improve your day-job roll, you are in effect screwing your colleagues, since they expect you to put your effort (i.e. that feat) into something that will help the group during the Pathfinder mission.
Be an adventurer, not a greengrocer.
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If you are spending a feat (or any other resource) to improve your day-job roll, you are in effect screwing your colleagues, since they expect you to put your effort (i.e. that feat) into something that will help the group during the Pathfinder mission.
Be an adventurer, not a greengrocer.
I vehemently disagree.
This is tantamount to saying "if your character isn't totally optimized you are in effect screwing your colleagues".
I may or may not have a social obligation to bring a competent character to the table but I most certainly do NOT have an obligation to bring a highly optimized character using all of his feats to extract the greatest mechanical advantage.
One of my characters is an artist. He has invested considerable resources into his craft painting skill. Far more than just the skill focus - craft painting feat that he has.
He is also a witch WITHOUT the slumber hex.
Despite all that he most definitely contributes and is most definitely more than just competent.
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If you are spending a feat (or any other resource) to improve your day-job roll, you are in effect screwing your colleagues, since they expect you to put your effort (i.e. that feat) into something that will help the group during the Pathfinder mission.
Be an adventurer, not a greengrocer.
I vehemently disagree.
This is tantamount to saying "if your character isn't totally optimized you are in effect screwing your colleagues".
No. No its not. Its a VAST, vast difference in degree in between "uber optimized" and "take master craftsman". Taking master craftsman is almost poes laws level of deliberate anti optimization. Its the evil opposite of pun pun.
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I don't see why a function that it already doesn't do needs to be called out anywhere.
That's like saying "Power Attack: It does not give you +2 on Acrobatics".
No, it is not as there is no mention of Acrobatics in the Power attack feat. In Master Craftsman, there is mention of the ability to craft magic items which is not allowed in PFS.
What I am saying is to put in the rules for the feat,
Master Craftsman:Only grants a +2 to one craft skill. It does not allow crafting of magic items.
That's stupid.
Shall I also list all the other things that Master Craftsman does not do? Does not allow character to fly. Does not grant immunity to poison. Does not improve Reflex saves. Not all customers will qualify for all rates. Past performance does not guarantee future returns. See your physician to see if you are healthy enough for Pathfinder. Please allow six to eight weeks for shipping. This product is meant for educational purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Sell before date stamped on carton. Do not purchase if seal has been tampered with. Contents under pressure. Void where prohibited or taxed. Some assembly required. List each check separately by bank number. Batteries not included. Some settling of contents may occur during shipping. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will be paid by addressee. Subject to CAB approval. This is not an offer to sell securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not stamp. Use other side for additional listings. For recreational use only. Do not disturb. All models over 18 years of age. If condition persists, consult your physician. No user-serviceable parts inside. Freshest if eaten before date on carton. Times approximate. Simulated picture. No postage necessary if mailed in the United States. Breaking seal constitutes acceptance of agreement. For off-road use only. As seen on TV. One size fits all. Many suitcases look alike. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. Colors may, in time, fade. We have sent the forms which seem to be right for you. Slippery when wet. Parental guidance suggested. Do not bend, fold, spindle, or mutilate. We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Use unleaded fuel only. For office use only. Not affiliated with the American Red Cross. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool; process promptly. For sale by prescription only. Post office will not deliver without postage. Return to sender, no forwarding order on file, unable to forward. Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect, error or failure to perform. At participating locations only.Not the Beatles, just an incredible simulation. No Canadian coins. All rights reserved.
and, of course,
Slightly higher in California.
Similarly, shall I add the sentence "it does not allow crafting of magic items" to all the other feats that don't allow the crafting of magic items, just in case you can't figure out what the Dodge feat does and does not permit?
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Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.
"You can create magic items using these feats," Those feats are already banned. There is no problem or confusion in the rules, or in the feat description.
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Ooo! I just thought of something. Though a corner case, for sure:
Wizard-1/Fighter-4 takes this feat at 5th level (having the prerequisite 5 ranks in Craft or Profession).
Can they use it in conjunction with the rules for upgrading the Wizard's Arcane Bond?
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Be an adventurer, not a greengrocer.I vehemently disagree.
This is tantamount to saying "if your character isn't totally optimized you are in effect screwing your colleagues".
No it's not, and if you've ever read my posts, you'd know that optimization is NOT something I advocate. I also have lots of skill points into non-combat options - but then, I play skill monkeys and so have the points. Feats are precious - they're second only to actual levels in determining what your PC can do as part of the group.
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Kegdrainer does have a point; in regards to PFS, the feat could stand some clarification. As others have suggested, it's a pretty dubious feat for PFS but does have situational uses.Are there other situational uses beyond what Pirate Rob and I just mentioned?
Admittedly none that I can think of. The most petty of course is day job rolls but that looks to be well discussed in the thread.
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Ooo! I just thought of something. Though a corner case, for sure:
Wizard-1/Fighter-4 takes this feat at 5th level (having the prerequisite 5 ranks in Craft or Profession).
Can they use it in conjunction with the rules for upgrading the Wizard's Arcane Bond?
Or even a pure fighter with Eldritch Heritage Arcane, because frankly they have so many feats anyway.
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If you are spending a feat (or any other resource) to improve your day-job roll, you are in effect screwing your colleagues, since they expect you to put your effort (i.e. that feat) into something that will help the group during the Pathfinder mission.
Be an adventurer, not a greengrocer.
We different definitions of letting the party down, I guess. How are more spells screwing my colleagues? More spells, through scrolls, open slots, (or arcane bond for wizards) grant flexibility. Flexibility in spells is the wizard's trademark (barring the white beard and pointy hats). :)
My wizard can add a spell to her spellbook every session for the price of a day job roll. At level 6 now (no Feats in craft) taking 10 is 50 gp which is enough to copy a 2nd level spell from another pathfinder, & only 10 gp away from getting a copy from the Grand Lodge. 50 gp nets two 1st level scrolls even for a non-caster.
Investing two feats would change 50 to 75 gp. A 3rd level spell can be copied into my spellbook with an additional 15 gp from another caster, or two scenarios to get one from the Lodge. It also covers a 2nd level scroll every chronicle.
The highest (barring boons) gp from a day job check is 300. I can copy a 6th level spell for 360. I can get a fireball scroll for 375 by then. An extra fireball nearly every chronicle. While scrolls may not be very efficient think of all the utility spells you only need once in a while lesser restoration, comprehend languages, detect traps.
On the flipside, what good is a metamagic feat if you only have two levels in spells?* Using a fireball slot on an empowered burning hands? You can get an item to do that for 2 or 3 levels sooner.
Efficient? No. Anti-optimized? No. Screwing the rest of the party? Definitely No.
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If you are spending a feat (or any other resource) to improve your day-job roll, you are in effect screwing your colleagues, since they expect you to put your effort (i.e. that feat) into something that will help the group during the Pathfinder mission.
Be an adventurer, not a greengrocer.
Normally I don't respond to posts like this but this one caught my eye. Mainly because I actually do have a character with ranks in Profession: Greengrocer.
So you are saying that you wouldn't play with my 8th level non-human fighter since he spent some of his preciously small pool of skill points on something that didn't help the group? (Before you answer you may want to consult someone who has played with Marrakuk the Orc Vegan Viking.)
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I've played with people that have skill focus craft jewelry and used the higher level summoner ability to grant themselves the skilled (craft jewelery) evolution. I think this character may also have improved day job, but I am not sure, and after this thread I think he might take Master Craftsman.
I have never felt that this character is screwing over the party by his choices. This character contributes plenty toward the success of the party.
Most of the time I'd never know if someone had such feats, as I don't generally know most people's builds, but they don't bother me.
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Ha Ha! Nope no crafting feats, but they would have seen more use than summoner's call which I took at first level (I've used it once). I can't say how often my 'dwarf feats' have been relevant (enough for me :). With aspect for racial bonus to a skill, I am up to a +30 on crafting Jewelry. Now my nephew, he is even more excited to be in the family business. He just might take a look at these...
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Ha Ha! Nope no crafting feats, but they would have seen more use than summoner's call which I took at first level (I've used it once). I can't say how often my 'dwarf feats' have been relevant (enough for me :). With aspect for racial bonus to a skill, I am up to a +30 on crafting Jewelry. Now my nephew, he is even more excited to be in the family business. He just might take a look at these...
Don't worry, I get mad when the fighter didn't learn haste too.
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Contributor
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Master Craftsman is not banned by Additional Resources since it is not listed in the Item creation Feats. It is a mostly-useless feat to take since the only effect is a +2 on one Craft skill.
If you are spending a feat (or any other resource) to improve your day-job roll, you are in effect screwing your colleagues, since they expect you to put your effort (i.e. that feat) into something that will help the group during the Pathfinder mission.
Be an adventurer, not a greengrocer.
It's posts like this that make me uncomfortable with the idea of joining PFS.
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Until you realize that, if you play your cards right, day job checks can nab you an extra 34 000 gp over the course of your PFS career...
That seems like quite a bit. Even if you go slow track, that would be around 500gp per day job check. Are you sure about those numbers? I know there are boons that increase your dayjob maximums but I'm curious how you got to that figure.
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What's weird is that Lamplighter normally comes off as very anti-optimization, so he opinion on this matter is quite perplexing.
It should just highlight exactly HOW bad +2 to a dajob check is.
(I hadn't considered the wizard crafting thing , dunno if that works. But i dunno that it doesn't work either..)
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Until you realize that, if you play your cards right, day job checks can nab you an extra 34 000 gp over the course of your PFS career...Friends don't let friends waste feats on dayjob checks...
But you can't attribute that entire amount to wasted feats. You have to subtract what you would get without the feats. then see if that amount is worth the feats.
A business man should understand opportunity costs :)
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It's posts like this that make me uncomfortable with the idea of joining PFS.Master Craftsman is not banned by Additional Resources since it is not listed in the Item creation Feats. It is a mostly-useless feat to take since the only effect is a +2 on one Craft skill.
If you are spending a feat (or any other resource) to improve your day-job roll, you are in effect screwing your colleagues, since they expect you to put your effort (i.e. that feat) into something that will help the group during the Pathfinder mission.
Be an adventurer, not a greengrocer.
An entire large convention might have a "that one guy" that's not going to stand for less than total optimization, but you probably won't run into him and he'll be too busy soloing the scenario to check your character sheet.
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That seems like quite a bit. Even if you go slow track, that would be around 500gp per day job check. Are you sure about those numbers? I know there are boons that increase your dayjob maximums but I'm curious how you got to that figure.
For an exchange Pathfinder, the Day Job caps at DC 50 for 300 GP. With the +10 bonus on Day Job checks that the boon also provides, you can hit that with taking 10 at or around level 3 (provided you've played 1 and 2 on slow track to earn enough exchange faction goals). If one of those levels is a Street Performer Bard dip, this becomes 600 GP per scenario. With 54 more scenarios on slow track before level 12, this equals 32400, plus whatever you managed to earn during levels 1 and 2.
It costs you at least a feat (if not two or three) and a class level though. Opportunity costs indeed.
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Master Craftsman is not banned by Additional Resources since it is not listed in the Item creation Feats. It is a mostly-useless feat to take since the only effect is a +2 on one Craft skill.
If you are spending a feat (or any other resource) to improve your day-job roll, you are in effect screwing your colleagues, since they expect you to put your effort (i.e. that feat) into something that will help the group during the Pathfinder mission.
Be an adventurer, not a greengrocer.
Scott, I respect your opinion on creating Pathfinders and not one-trick ponies. But this is straight up hogwash.
Master Craftsman is required for a Rogue to "craft" their own poisons, which makes the use of poisons somewhat palatable since you are buying them at half cost per dose instead of full cost.
I have a 10th level two-weapon fighter / rogue that uses fighting fans and poison. Nobody that has adventured with him has indicated he's useless.
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That seems like quite a bit. Even if you go slow track, that would be around 500gp per day job check. Are you sure about those numbers? I know there are boons that increase your dayjob maximums but I'm curious how you got to that figure.For an exchange Pathfinder, the Day Job caps at DC 50 for 300 GP. With the +10 bonus on Day Job checks that the boon also provides, you can hit that with taking 10 at or around level 3 (provided you've played 1 and 2 on slow track to earn enough exchange faction goals). If one of those levels is a Street Performer Bard dip, this becomes 600 GP per scenario. With 54 more scenarios on slow track before level 12, this equals 32400, plus whatever you managed to earn during levels 1 and 2.
It costs you at least a feat (if not two or three) and a class level though. Opportunity costs indeed.
Cool, I knew there was a way to get the day job max up to a few hundred, but I wasn't aware of the Street Performer bard bit. That's actually a substantial amount of money, but you do pay for it in a way.