The level of bonus spells


Rules Questions


31 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

When classes such as sorcerers or bloodragers get free bonus spells known due to their class features, such as the sorcerer bloodline, how is the level of the spell determined? <---FAQ question.

For those of you who may want to say just go by whatever level it normally counts as for that class I agree, but the oracle gets a spell early due to an FAQ. There may also be times when a class gets access to a spell it does not normally have access to, such as an arcane class gaining access to a divine spell.

I thought there was a rule or dev comment on it, but I was not able to find it.


dotted for interest in same question


I'm slightly proud of myself for bringing it up.

Also I'm interested in the answer. Could never find an actual rule that determined the level.

Grand Lodge

Perhaps have a look on this thread:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2n3r6?Houston-We-Have-a-Problem-With-Sorcerers# 1

Here is the FAQ:
Sorcerer: Is the aquatic sorcerer bloodline (page 136) supposed to get geyser as a bonus spell at sorcerer level 9, even though that’s normally a 5th-level sorcerer/wizard spell and unavailable to sorcerers before caster level 10?
Yes, and the sorcerer learns it as a 4th-level spell. Note that geyser is also a 4th-level druid spell (available at character level 7), so the aquatic sorcerer gaining it at character level 9 as a 4th-level arcane spell isn’t too powerful.

*Khan*

Sczarni

Is there one of these instances that there's a question about specifically? Because it seems to me that this occurrence would need to be addressed on a case by case basis.

And sometimes, more often than not, the answer is easy to intuit without needing anything "official".

I.E. Hippy Oracle gets charm bunny at 2nd level, charm tiger at 4th level, and charm rhinoceros at 6th level.

Charm bunny is normally a 1st level spell, so no confusion, but the other two are both normally 3rd level spells.

Just going by the progression that Oracles normally use, would there be any question that the Hippy Oracle could charm Tigers before other characters could?

I'd think it'd be easy to figure out.


You get it at whatever the highest spell level you can cast at the time. So a Witch can get a lv2 spell as a lv1 spell from her patron. Then take it as a lv2 spell and fill all the slots with it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Chess Pwn wrote:
You get it at whatever the highest spell level you can cast at the time. So a Witch can get a lv2 spell as a lv1 spell from her patron. Then take it as a lv2 spell and fill all the slots with it.

So, if I take 5 levels of Oracle, 10 levels of a full casting prestige class, then come back for my 6th Oracle level, does that mean I get Fireball as an 8th level spell?

I think the best answer is that your bonus spells are just in order. So, the first bonus spell is a 1st level, the second is 2nd, etc. Someone mentioned that in another thread and I think it's the best one. That said, I guess we need a dev to say the same thing officially, so, FAQ.

Liberty's Edge

mplindustries wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
You get it at whatever the highest spell level you can cast at the time. So a Witch can get a lv2 spell as a lv1 spell from her patron. Then take it as a lv2 spell and fill all the slots with it.

So, if I take 5 levels of Oracle, 10 levels of a full casting prestige class, then come back for my 6th Oracle level, does that mean I get Fireball as an 8th level spell?

I think the best answer is that your bonus spells are just in order. So, the first bonus spell is a 1st level, the second is 2nd, etc. Someone mentioned that in another thread and I think it's the best one. That said, I guess we need a dev to say the same thing officially, so, FAQ.

For standardized bonus spell progressions (e.g. bloodlines, patrons, etc), I agree with this assessment. They should simply be taken as being in order of ascending spell level, the first entry is always a 1st level spell, the second is a 2nd level spell, and so on.

For any class feature with one-off access, e.g. vivisectionist (and other) alchemist archetypes, it should be listed explicitly (and is, for that example). Lacking that, the highest level a single-class character of that class could use at the time seems reasonable.


mplindustries wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
You get it at whatever the highest spell level you can cast at the time. So a Witch can get a lv2 spell as a lv1 spell from her patron. Then take it as a lv2 spell and fill all the slots with it.

So, if I take 5 levels of Oracle, 10 levels of a full casting prestige class, then come back for my 6th Oracle level, does that mean I get Fireball as an 8th level spell?

I think the best answer is that your bonus spells are just in order. So, the first bonus spell is a 1st level, the second is 2nd, etc. Someone mentioned that in another thread and I think it's the best one. That said, I guess we need a dev to say the same thing officially, so, FAQ.

Come on, if you're getting something from a class then references to levels is limited to in class levels. So if you get a spell as a witch then it's the highest you can cast as a witch. If you're an oracle, then it's what you can cast as an oracle.


So an Eldritch Scion's bloodline spells are higher level than the bloodline that they come from? Xp


Based off of my interpretation, yes. Could be pretty neat, having a boosted DC of some spells.


*Khan* wrote:

Perhaps have a look on this thread:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2n3r6?Houston-We-Have-a-Problem-With-Sorcerers# 1

Here is the FAQ:
Sorcerer: Is the aquatic sorcerer bloodline (page 136) supposed to get geyser as a bonus spell at sorcerer level 9, even though that’s normally a 5th-level sorcerer/wizard spell and unavailable to sorcerers before caster level 10?
Yes, and the sorcerer learns it as a 4th-level spell. Note that geyser is also a 4th-level druid spell (available at character level 7), so the aquatic sorcerer gaining it at character level 9 as a 4th-level arcane spell isn’t too powerful.

*Khan*

This is a specific case. FAQ's only answer the question asked.


Chess Pwn wrote:
You get it at whatever the highest spell level you can cast at the time.

That is what I said, and I am sure it works that way. The problem is that I could not find any proof.

Grand Lodge

For some reference. Here's an example with the Abyssal (bloodrager) bloodline.

Ray of enfeeblement (7th),
bull's strength (10th),
rage (13th),
stoneskin (16th).

bloodragers learn their first spell of each spell level at the following level
1st level spell at 4th bloodrager level
2nd level spell at 7th bloodrager level
3rd level spell at 10th bloodrager level
4th level spell at 13th bloodrager level

I'd assume that Ray of Enfeeblement would therefor be a second level spell for an abyssal bloodrager because he gets that as a bonus spell when he first learns second level spells.

But then with that reasoning what level spell would stoneskin be?


I would say stoneskin would count as a 4th level spell in this case. That is how I think the FAQ will work also.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
wraithstrike wrote:
I would say stoneskin would count as a 4th level spell in this case. That is how I think the FAQ will work also.

I highly doubt that the level of bonus spells will correlate with the highest level spell you can cast. Much more likely it will be strictly in order 1st through nth for n being whatever level caster you are. Bloodragers getting 2 level 4 bonus spells and no level 1 bonus spell makes no sense. For both types of bloodlines as well as domains, you get N bonus spells with N level casting, so it makes much more sense that you get 1 spell for each level than 2 at one and 0 at another.

Also, look at sorcerers and bloodline familiars. Bloodline familiars delay bonus spells by one level, so by the highest spell you can cast that would change all but the 9th level bonus spell. I doubt this is intended.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
mplindustries wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
You get it at whatever the highest spell level you can cast at the time. So a Witch can get a lv2 spell as a lv1 spell from her patron. Then take it as a lv2 spell and fill all the slots with it.

So, if I take 5 levels of Oracle, 10 levels of a full casting prestige class, then come back for my 6th Oracle level, does that mean I get Fireball as an 8th level spell?

I think the best answer is that your bonus spells are just in order. So, the first bonus spell is a 1st level, the second is 2nd, etc. Someone mentioned that in another thread and I think it's the best one. That said, I guess we need a dev to say the same thing officially, so, FAQ.

The bonus spells of one casting class don't care about your levels in other classes, even if they are casting ones.

Spell acquistion by class is tracked separately, even if those classes use a common spell list.


LazarX wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
You get it at whatever the highest spell level you can cast at the time. So a Witch can get a lv2 spell as a lv1 spell from her patron. Then take it as a lv2 spell and fill all the slots with it.

So, if I take 5 levels of Oracle, 10 levels of a full casting prestige class, then come back for my 6th Oracle level, does that mean I get Fireball as an 8th level spell?

I think the best answer is that your bonus spells are just in order. So, the first bonus spell is a 1st level, the second is 2nd, etc. Someone mentioned that in another thread and I think it's the best one. That said, I guess we need a dev to say the same thing officially, so, FAQ.

The bonus spells of one casting class don't care about your levels in other classes, even if they are casting ones.

Spell acquistion by class is tracked separately, even if those classes use a common spell list.

But he is only talking about one class's casting, oracle's. The prestige class advances oracle spellcasting, but doesn't grant bonus spells. So he can cast 8th level oracle spells when he takes level 6 in oracle and gets a bonus spell. So he would get fireball at 8th level by the reasoning of highest level of spell you can cast. That strikes me as odd, unintended, and more complex rather than strictly gaining them in order. Look at the shaman for instance, in that case they specifically list spell levels, but it follows the same pattern as all of the bloodline/domain style bonus spell lists.


Calth wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I would say stoneskin would count as a 4th level spell in this case. That is how I think the FAQ will work also.

I highly doubt that the level of bonus spells will correlate with the highest level spell you can cast. Much more likely it will be strictly in order 1st through nth for n being whatever level caster you are. Bloodragers getting 2 level 4 bonus spells and no level 1 bonus spell makes no sense. For both types of bloodlines as well as domains, you get N bonus spells with N level casting, so it makes much more sense that you get 1 spell for each level than 2 at one and 0 at another.

Also, look at sorcerers and bloodline familiars. Bloodline familiars delay bonus spells by one level, so by the highest spell you can cast that would change all but the 9th level bonus spell. I doubt this is intended.

This is another very good way to look at it and run it. It's the one I'd rule with.


Calth wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I would say stoneskin would count as a 4th level spell in this case. That is how I think the FAQ will work also.

I highly doubt that the level of bonus spells will correlate with the highest level spell you can cast. Much more likely it will be strictly in order 1st through nth for n being whatever level caster you are. Bloodragers getting 2 level 4 bonus spells and no level 1 bonus spell makes no sense. For both types of bloodlines as well as domains, you get N bonus spells with N level casting, so it makes much more sense that you get 1 spell for each level than 2 at one and 0 at another.

Also, look at sorcerers and bloodline familiars. Bloodline familiars delay bonus spells by one level, so by the highest spell you can cast that would change all but the 9th level bonus spell. I doubt this is intended.

I don't know what a bloodline familiar is but I know the bloodline spells word out to the highest level spell you can cast.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Calth wrote:
LazarX wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
You get it at whatever the highest spell level you can cast at the time. So a Witch can get a lv2 spell as a lv1 spell from her patron. Then take it as a lv2 spell and fill all the slots with it.

So, if I take 5 levels of Oracle, 10 levels of a full casting prestige class, then come back for my 6th Oracle level, does that mean I get Fireball as an 8th level spell?

I think the best answer is that your bonus spells are just in order. So, the first bonus spell is a 1st level, the second is 2nd, etc. Someone mentioned that in another thread and I think it's the best one. That said, I guess we need a dev to say the same thing officially, so, FAQ.

The bonus spells of one casting class don't care about your levels in other classes, even if they are casting ones.

Spell acquistion by class is tracked separately, even if those classes use a common spell list.

But he is only talking about one class's casting, oracle's. The prestige class advances oracle spellcasting, but doesn't grant bonus spells. So he can cast 8th level oracle spells when he takes level 6 in oracle and gets a bonus spell. So he would get fireball at 8th level by the reasoning of highest level of spell you can cast. That strikes me as odd, unintended, and more complex rather than strictly gaining them in order. Look at the shaman for instance, in that case they specifically list spell levels, but it follows the same pattern as all of the bloodline/domain style bonus spell lists.

You're right if you're saying what I think you're saying. The example mystery you're talking about is Flame, which grants the bonus spell Fireball at 6th Oracle class level. now assuming breaks off his oracle progression and goes into a PrC that advances spellcasting. (lets say he uses an SLA to get into early admission shennanigans as you could not enter a PrC before 7th normally) We'll say he progresses to Oracle 3rd and then 10 levels into Mystery Meat PrC. He's still not going to get Fireball until he takes three more levels of Oracle, even though he is a 16th level caster when he does. And he won't be getting the higher level Mystery spells assuming character level is capped at 20.


wraithstrike wrote:
Calth wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I would say stoneskin would count as a 4th level spell in this case. That is how I think the FAQ will work also.

I highly doubt that the level of bonus spells will correlate with the highest level spell you can cast. Much more likely it will be strictly in order 1st through nth for n being whatever level caster you are. Bloodragers getting 2 level 4 bonus spells and no level 1 bonus spell makes no sense. For both types of bloodlines as well as domains, you get N bonus spells with N level casting, so it makes much more sense that you get 1 spell for each level than 2 at one and 0 at another.

Also, look at sorcerers and bloodline familiars. Bloodline familiars delay bonus spells by one level, so by the highest spell you can cast that would change all but the 9th level bonus spell. I doubt this is intended.

I don't know what a bloodline familiar is but I know the bloodline spells word out to the highest level spell you can cast.

Bloodline familiars are an option for bloodragers/sorcerer. You give up your first bloodline power and delay bonus spells by a level to get a special familiar. A sorcerer taking a bloodline familiar would get bonus spells a level later, when they had already gained their next level spells. So taking that option would alter the level of all your bonus spells, and as I said, I doubt this is intended.


Calth wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Calth wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I would say stoneskin would count as a 4th level spell in this case. That is how I think the FAQ will work also.

I highly doubt that the level of bonus spells will correlate with the highest level spell you can cast. Much more likely it will be strictly in order 1st through nth for n being whatever level caster you are. Bloodragers getting 2 level 4 bonus spells and no level 1 bonus spell makes no sense. For both types of bloodlines as well as domains, you get N bonus spells with N level casting, so it makes much more sense that you get 1 spell for each level than 2 at one and 0 at another.

Also, look at sorcerers and bloodline familiars. Bloodline familiars delay bonus spells by one level, so by the highest spell you can cast that would change all but the 9th level bonus spell. I doubt this is intended.

I don't know what a bloodline familiar is but I know the bloodline spells word out to the highest level spell you can cast.
Bloodline familiars are an option for bloodragers/sorcerer. You give up your first bloodline power and delay bonus spells by a level to get a special familiar. A sorcerer taking a bloodline familiar would get bonus spells a level later, when they had already gained their next level spells. So taking that option would alter the level of all your bonus spells, and as I said, I doubt this is intended.

I was talking about the normal class. Of course something like that might change things.


Chess Pwn wrote:
You get it at whatever the highest spell level you can cast at the time. So a Witch can get a lv2 spell as a lv1 spell from her patron. Then take it as a lv2 spell and fill all the slots with it.

Another issue regarding bonus-spell-level is corner cases like the Blackened Oracle and FCB that increase your effective level for calculating your curse.

Do you get those spells at a level you can cast (ie. a lower spell level than otherwise intended)?


Archaeik wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
You get it at whatever the highest spell level you can cast at the time. So a Witch can get a lv2 spell as a lv1 spell from her patron. Then take it as a lv2 spell and fill all the slots with it.

Another issue regarding bonus-spell-level is corner cases like the Blackened Oracle and FCB that increase your effective level for calculating your curse.

Do you get those spells at a level you can cast (ie. a lower spell level than otherwise intended)?

Some classes are going be an exception like the one FAQ mentioned before. Of course we could end up with every such class getting errata but I am expecting a general rule more than every class getting its own errata.


wraithstrike wrote:

When classes such as sorcerers or bloodragers get free bonus spells known due to their class features, such as the sorcerer bloodline, how is the level of the spell determined? <---FAQ question.

For those of you who may want to say just go by whatever level it normally counts as for that class I agree, but the oracle gets a spell early due to an FAQ. There may also be times when a class gets access to a spell it does not normally have access to, such as an arcane class gaining access to a divine spell.

I thought there was a rule or dev comment on it, but I was not able to find it.

This is a standard case of Specific trumps General. The Specific Spell Levels given for your class feature (such as in the case of Fire Domain and Produce Flame) trump the General rules for determining Spell Level (as what it's written in the sheet). With the above example and myself being a Druid, I can have Produce Flame as both my 1st level casting spell and my 2nd level Domain spell. This can be important for spells and effects dependant upon counterspelling and the like, but other than that? It's still essentially the same spell and effect that follows.

A FAQ is technically not needed, so long as the class feature in question says what level of spell it is for you (or a similar indicator), since in the case of Sorcerers via the FAQ, not only is a precedent set, but also the level is shown to match what the book says they get it at (i.e. they still get it as a bonus spell at the level the book says).

Grand Lodge

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
A FAQ is technically not needed, so long as the class feature in question says what level of spell it is for you (or a similar indicator), since in the case of Sorcerers via the FAQ, not only is a precedent set, but also the level is shown to match what the book says they get it at (i.e. they still get it as a bonus spell at the level the book says).

And in the case of bloodragers where it's not pointed out and it doesn't match as pointed out above?


claudekennilol wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
A FAQ is technically not needed, so long as the class feature in question says what level of spell it is for you (or a similar indicator), since in the case of Sorcerers via the FAQ, not only is a precedent set, but also the level is shown to match what the book says they get it at (i.e. they still get it as a bonus spell at the level the book says).
And in the case of bloodragers where it's not pointed out and it doesn't match as pointed out above?

You could FAQ it and hope the designers did a scale typo, but I sincerely doubt they make that big of oversights. The only times they do that are in regards to martial options.

That aside, if there are no specifics that tell you what spell level it functions as, then you return to the general rule. In your cited case, the Ray of Enfeeblement would be a 1st level spell (gained when you can cast 2nd level spells), the Bull's Strength would be a 2nd level spell (gained when you can cast 3rd level spells), etc. With that philosophy in mind, it makes the class feature sub-par, but it has a constant scale and pattern that can be easily followed.

Grand Lodge

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
A FAQ is technically not needed, so long as the class feature in question says what level of spell it is for you (or a similar indicator), since in the case of Sorcerers via the FAQ, not only is a precedent set, but also the level is shown to match what the book says they get it at (i.e. they still get it as a bonus spell at the level the book says).
And in the case of bloodragers where it's not pointed out and it doesn't match as pointed out above?

You could FAQ it and hope the designers did a scale typo, but I sincerely doubt they make that big of oversights. The only times they do that are in regards to martial options.

That aside, if there are no specifics that tell you what spell level it functions as, then you return to the general rule. In your cited case, the Ray of Enfeeblement would be a 1st level spell (gained when you can cast 2nd level spells), the Bull's Strength would be a 2nd level spell (gained when you can cast 3rd level spells), etc. With that philosophy in mind, it makes the class feature sub-par, but it has a constant scale and pattern that can be easily followed.

Where is this "general rule", though?


claudekennilol wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
A FAQ is technically not needed, so long as the class feature in question says what level of spell it is for you (or a similar indicator), since in the case of Sorcerers via the FAQ, not only is a precedent set, but also the level is shown to match what the book says they get it at (i.e. they still get it as a bonus spell at the level the book says).
And in the case of bloodragers where it's not pointed out and it doesn't match as pointed out above?

You could FAQ it and hope the designers did a scale typo, but I sincerely doubt they make that big of oversights. The only times they do that are in regards to martial options.

That aside, if there are no specifics that tell you what spell level it functions as, then you return to the general rule. In your cited case, the Ray of Enfeeblement would be a 1st level spell (gained when you can cast 2nd level spells), the Bull's Strength would be a 2nd level spell (gained when you can cast 3rd level spells), etc. With that philosophy in mind, it makes the class feature sub-par, but it has a constant scale and pattern that can be easily followed.

Where is this "general rule", though?

In the spell's listed description, obviously.

Produce Flame from the Fire Domain is a prime example of a spell whose level (2nd) is different from what it normally is (1st), and that's because the Fire Domain bonus spells list what spell level it is for each domain spell a character acquires from the respective domain. So, in this case, Domains offer a specific exception to Produce Flame otherwise generally being a 1st level Druid only spell.

If there is a lack of such specific exceptions, then you revert to the spell's base description (which is what I mean by "the general rule").


I think a problem here with "general rule" is that sometimes this just doesn't apply.

How do you handle the spell "hideous laughter" being gained as a bonus spell? On the wizard/sorc spell list, it's a level 2 spell. Yet on the bard spell list, it is a level 1 spell. It's a level 1 spell on the same number of lists as it is a level 2 spell, so how do I handle it when I gain it as a bonus spell on the magus, which does not contain that spell normally?

There are plenty of spells that exist on multiple spell lists but at different levels, therefore I think there needs to be put into place a convention for handling what level a different class gains those spells as.


Johnny_Devo wrote:

I think a problem here with "general rule" is that sometimes this just doesn't apply.

How do you handle the spell "hideous laughter" being gained as a bonus spell? On the wizard/sorc spell list, it's a level 2 spell. Yet on the bard spell list, it is a level 1 spell. It's a level 1 spell on the same number of lists as it is a level 2 spell, so how do I handle it when I gain it as a bonus spell on the magus, which does not contain that spell normally?

There are plenty of spells that exist on multiple spell lists but at different levels, therefore I think there needs to be put into place a convention for handling what level a different class gains those spells as.

How are you gaining it as a Bonus Spell as a Magus? Link me the class feature that gives you that ability, as that's a great indicator as to what level the spell actually would be, the same way looking at the Domain would tell you what spell level it is when you cast it.


Eldritch Scion does it. You get bonus spells from your bloodline, which is Bloodrager-based, which may be raising the same question for them.


Quote:
At 7th level, an eldritch scion gains the bonus spell from his bloodrager bloodline that is normally gained at 10th level. He gains the next three bonus spells from his bloodline at 9th, 11th, and 13th levels, respectively.

Now, ingoring how horribly worded the RAW is for this, I'm assuming the RAI is that you gain the first spell at 7, the second at 9, the third at 11, and the fourth at 13.

An eldritch scion can cast third level spells by level 7, third level by level 9, fourth level by level 11, and fifth level by level 13.

To use the fey bloodline as an example, you get entangle, a level 1 druid and ranger spell at 7. Hideous laughter, a level 2 wizard/sorc and a level 1 bard spell at level 9. Haste is already on magus list so that's easy to say it's a level 3 spell, and confusion, which is a level 3 bard spell, a level 4 bloodrager, sorc/wizard, witch, and domain spell, so it is not on the magus spell list.

It's easy to see the argument that it's always a level 1 spell so entangle is a level 1 spell for the eldritch scion, but that argument starts to fall apart when there's differing levels for confusion, and it's completely arbitrary with hideous laughter, which I mentioned earlier has no arguable convention for what level it would be on a different list.

Looking at other examples, such as the magus arcana "spell blending", it specifically tells you what level it is added to your list as, which would be the normal wizard level.

Bloodline bonus spells have no such language. It could be argued for the bloodrager that you gain them in order, as in 1-2-3-4, since it seems a bit structured like that so you get the lower level bonus spell when you could cast the next level, but that's delving into theoretical RAI when there's no RAW to support it.

If you go by the assumption that you gain it at the highest level of spell you can currently cast, you end up with some really weird things as well. The bloodrager would gain those spells as 2-3-4-4 respectively, when their "normal" levels are 1-2-3-4. The eldritch scion would gain them as 3-3-3(haste class spell)-5 respectively, which is just another odd layout that doesn't seem intended.


There actually is a convention for defaulting spell levels. Wizard/Cleric are assumed first, then Druid. It keeps going but those are pretty much the three that matter. It's usually used for magic item crafting and for SLAs, but it's there.

Just saying.


Johnny_Devo wrote:
Bloodline bonus spells have no such language. It could be argued for the bloodrager that you gain them in order, as in 1-2-3-4, since it seems a bit structured like that so you get the lower level bonus spell when you could cast the next level, but that's delving into theoretical RAI when there's no RAW to support it.

Considering that's how basic Bloodline spells work (you get a bonus spell based on your class level, and it always goes from spells that come from 1st level, scaling up to 9th level), and there is a FAQ regarding Bloodline spells, and the Bloodrager gets Bloodline spells from the parent class whose FAQ is associated with, it's definitely supported with the RAI that the FAQ mentions.

And disregarding that, we can always try to use the SLA method, but that has more plotholes than the above proposition.

I will agree that it doesn't come out and say what they are, and that's a problem with the lack of clarity regarding these subjects, but it's certainly plausible to find the answers if you use enough common sense.


Common sense is fine, and I will in fact be using it. It simply makes sense that the spells that are mostly level 1 spells get added as level 1 spells, and the progression of it is a simple 1-2-3-4, but my issue is that there's no official word on it. Maybe I'm just too lawful; It's a bit chaotic to have no official convention :D

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / The level of bonus spells All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.