Mongrel Foes


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


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Very surprised to see this hasn't been asked yet

If a mongrel type monster draws a random monster to define its difficulty to defeat, what happens if the difficulty on the card drawn reads 'See Below'


The mongrel's check-against would be undefined; as such, while you can't fail the Combat check against it, it's undefeated.

Based on similar problems caused by Teleportation Chamber.


I just did what ever see below said. Tonight we had to summon a random monster which was a mongrel wizard. To determine his difficulty, we drew a random monster which was a mongrel wizard. To determine his difficulty we drew a random monster which was a 10. That effectively made the original mongrel wizard a 10.

The random monsters to determine the difficulty are drawn, not summoned. So you can keep drawing. And these say see below, not none. So just keep seeing below.

Adventure Card Game Designer

Nah, it's easy. The key rule is:

"Wrath rulebook page 12 wrote:
When determining the lowest or highest difficulty to defeat or acquire a card, apply all powers from cards in play that affect the difficulty, but do not apply powers that happen before you act, while you act, or after you act.

So Card A says draw Card B and look at its highest difficulty to defeat.

What is Card B's highest difficulty to defeat?
It's... see below.
You see below. It's the highest difficulty of Card C.
What is Card C's highest difficulty to defeat?
It's 12. So your difficulty is 12.

This is like what we did with Lycanthropes.
Card A says draw Card B and look at its highest difficulty to defeat.
What is Card B's highest difficulty to defeat?
It's 12, unless the top card of the blessings discard pile is Blessing of the Gods.
What is the top card of the blessings discard pile?
It's Blessing of the Gods.
You add 3. So your difficulty is 15.

See? Easy.

(Though I now might look at that phrase "in play" a little more askance, since the drawn cards were not in play. Hmm.)


...derp, I didn't see that added to the Wrath rulebook. Silly me. >.<


I only read the 'new' bits. But sure enough there are passages that have changed


PS Thanks Mike


I like that this is really a thematic, in-rules way of saying "just keep drawing until you get one that works." It actually happened to us in our game today! Mongrel Traitor drew a Mongrel Wizard. Russian nesting dolls; Mongrels all the way down.

Calling them Mongrels seems really mean though. :/ I mean hey maybe they're taking it back, I don't know. They might be cool with it. But maybe if we called them something nicer than Mongrels, I'd have to deal with less Acid damage before I acted.


So at the Abbatoir, I draw a Mongrel Wizard. I draw into a Cambion for the check. There are 3 players.

The difficulty of the Cambion is 12, +3 for the Abattoir = 15.
So the difficult of the Mongrel Wizard is 15, +3 for the Abattoir = 18.

Or is the difficulty just 15?

Adventure Card Game Designer

Why would you add the +3 twice?


Yeah, I was overthinking it. Sorry.


Our term for this situation is 'dividing by Mongrel'


Um, so I don't think any monsters in the set have a straight up defeat of "none".

But what about Lann? If Lann draws a Carbuncle as its ally, what is the highest difficulty of "None"? What is the highest difficulty of "Banish X" (this comes up after AD1)?

Would you just not be able to acquire him?


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"None" is an automatic failure (this comes up in S&S when trying to close Fringes of the Eye.)

"Banish a card" is not a check value, so that should be an automatic failure also.


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The pain with Mongrels is not killing them. It's the Wizards who deal 2 damage. (I was so glad that the Enchantress was gone, and then Paizo comes up with this... Thanks, Obama)

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