2 Magic Shields, can it be done?


Rules Questions


Hey guys, first posted topic and i need some info.
So I love magical shields, they have some of the best enchantments.
Anyway i am planning on building a very defensive tank character and i was planing on giving him 2 magical shields, something like this:

Large Shield + Longsword + Buckler

Now i fully realize that i can only apply the armor bonus from one shield and only if i am not attacking with that arm. What i want to do is make the Large Shield an all up +5 with a few other (+) enchantments and then have the Buckler be just a +1 with Mirrored and Fortification and a few others. So i would only really be taking advantage of the AC bonus from the Large Shield.

My question is whether my having 2 magical shields would preclude me from taking advantage of the enchantment effects of the second shield if they have nothing to do with AC.

And yes i am fully aware that wearing a Buckler on my main arm will give me a -1 penalty to hit and i am fine with that.

So can you guys help me out?


2 magic shields : you only get the AC bonus and the enchantments of the shield with the best enhancement bonus. Same as trying to stack an armor with bracers of armor.

Might not be an official RAW, but as Bracers of armor specifically precludes stacking using that rule, I suppose it'd be somehow the same for using 2 shields.


Damn.
So, for another example:
Say i was wearing a +1 Buckler of Fire Resistance AND and +1 Buckler of Cold Resistance...
Your saying that I would NOT be Resistant to both Cold and Fire?
Only one or the other?


Truedragon wrote:

Damn.

So, for another example:
Say i was wearing a +1 Buckler of Fire Resistance AND and +1 Buckler of Cold Resistance...
Your saying that I would NOT be Resistant to both Cold and Fire?
Only one or the other?

Shields occupy a magic item slot. You only have 1 shield slot.


Jeraa is correct, only one magic shield would be functional since you have only 1 magic shield slot (CRB p459).


Oh!
Sort of like how you can only use 2 magic rings even if you were wearing 10 different magic rings. Right?

Silver Crusade

Out of curiosity, what class were you planning this build for?


Of course, nobody says how or when to designate which shield as your "Main" shield, so while you may not be able to benefit from both simultaneously, there's no real reason you can't alternate.


Alternating which shield is magical/active is not likely to be a free action.


Tin Foil Yamakah wrote:
Out of curiosity, what class were you planning this build for?

Wizard 1/Fighter 4/Greestar Adept (home modded for Pathfinder)


Kaouse wrote:
Of course, nobody says how or when to designate which shield as your "Main" shield, so while you may not be able to benefit from both simultaneously, there's no real reason you can't alternate.

Surely if you were trying to use the shield with the lesser enhancement as your "main" shield to get the benefit of it's enchantment you would have to take off the the one with the greater enhancement?

Isn't that how it works with rings?

Unless there is a way of (de)activating a shield bonus which I haven't come across?


CountofUndolpho wrote:
Kaouse wrote:
Of course, nobody says how or when to designate which shield as your "Main" shield, so while you may not be able to benefit from both simultaneously, there's no real reason you can't alternate.

Surely if you were trying to use the shield with the lesser enhancement as your "main" shield to get the benefit of it's enchantment you would have to take off the the one with the greater enhancement?

Isn't that how it works with rings?

Unless there is a way of (de)activating a shield bonus which I haven't come across?

You can only gain the benefit for one shield at a time. Assuming you don't have equal enhancements, there really isn't a reason you can't choose the shield with the lower enhancement for some time. Really, there's no rule's text in this situation, as the Dev team used to think that using 2 shields was IMPOSSIBRU in a world where wizards can create demiplanes and bend reality over their knee.


I still think using 2 shields is impossible mainly because, unlike magic spells and mythical beasts etc., I really can't imagine how it would work. You know in my minds eye, stream of fire from my hand I can see that, Balrog hey I watched LotR, Some dude with a coffee table sized board strapped to each arm able to fight in a general hack and slash melee? Sorry I get stuck with how you'd equip them both.

Any road up.

I still don't see how you can just choose which one to use; for anything else magical or otherwise usual rules seem to apply i.e.

PRD wrote:
When a character wears a slotted wondrous item he cannot gain the benefit from a wondrous items of the same slot until the first item is removed.
or
PRD Armoured Coat wrote:
If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor.

Why would it be different for shields?


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CountofUndolpho wrote:
I still think using 2 shields is impossible mainly because, unlike magic spells and mythical beasts etc., I really can't imagine how it would work.
Like this.


They are more akin to scizores than shields to me and whilst it's a nice bit of choreography I still don't get it. Though I suppose if there was a specific fighting shield other than the Scizore I'd be more likely to allow it after seeing that.

That also doesn't address how you'd equip them yourself or even remove them yourself? Oops! we've been ambushed could someone strap my second shield on for me? I'm sorry I'm ready for combat could someone open the door for me? I'm sorry you are unable to retrieve that potion and consume it as you are only able to hold things in your shield hand(s) not wield/use them (and that's for light shields) ... and so on.


CountofUndolpho wrote:

I still think using 2 shields is impossible mainly because, unlike magic spells and mythical beasts etc., I really can't imagine how it would work. You know in my minds eye, stream of fire from my hand I can see that, Balrog hey I watched LotR, Some dude with a coffee table sized board strapped to each arm able to fight in a general hack and slash melee? Sorry I get stuck with how you'd equip them both.

Any road up.

I still don't see how you can just choose which one to use; for anything else magical or otherwise usual rules seem to apply i.e.

PRD wrote:
When a character wears a slotted wondrous item he cannot gain the benefit from a wondrous items of the same slot until the first item is removed.
or
PRD Armoured Coat wrote:
If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor.
Why would it be different for shields?

Your first bit is for wondrous items. Shields are not wondrous items.

Your second thing is for for a specific item. Even discounting that, it says no stacking of same type bonus which we already knew. And nobody is claiming that the shield bonuses for 2 shields stack.


No but they are claiming you can just decide which one takes precedence any time you like. Feel free to give examples from Pathfinder of items that work like that to counter my examples of how things usually work in Pathfinder.


Since shields are use activated you get the properties of the one you use, as in get the shield bonus to AC from. Much like weapons that you have to attack with to get the benefit from (like Defending).


A meridian belt lets you switch out your rings faster, just for what it's worth


thorin001 wrote:
Since shields are use activated you get the properties of the one you use, as in get the shield bonus to AC from. Much like weapons that you have to attack with to get the benefit from (like Defending).

I thought shields were activated by wielding -if you have one on each arm then you are wielding them both - they are both shields you have one shield slot. Using it to shield bash doesn't stop it being a shield. By that logic you could have two rings working on the same hand if one of them was an activated RING OF FORCE SHIELD as it would then be a shield not a ring?

If you have a necklace of armour thingy can you get the benefit of another necklace while it's in armour form because it's now armour not a necklace?

The use the item is put to doesn't change it's essential nature, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Weapons don't have slots, shields do.


RAW is silent on this issue. You could use the ring precedent as has been suggested earlier. Or you could use my suggestion above.

How would you handle magic armor with an enchanted armor kilt? It runs into the same problem as the multiple shields ad should have the same resolution rules wise.


RAW? Ah the "because it isn't specifically prohibited then you can do it" argument. If something isn't specifically mentioned then I tend to look at similar rules/items etc and extrapolate RAI it seems logical to do so. Do you just allow anything not specifically prohibited in your games? How does that work out?

The Armoured Kilt isn't in any of the books I use or the PRD but! The Armoured Coat which is in the PRD has "The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top." So I would use the same rule for Armoured Kilts as the entry on d20 doesn't mention magical effects at all.

Have you any examples to support your contention other than the Kilt?


Castilonium wrote:
A meridian belt lets you switch out your rings faster, just for what it's worth

Seems remarkably cheap for it's usefulness, not one for shields or armour that I can find.


Truedragon wrote:

Hey guys, first posted topic and i need some info.

So I love magical shields, they have some of the best enchantments.
Anyway i am planning on building a very defensive tank character and i was planing on giving him 2 magical shields, something like this:

Large Shield + Longsword + Buckler

Now i fully realize that i can only apply the armor bonus from one shield and only if i am not attacking with that arm. What i want to do is make the Large Shield an all up +5 with a few other (+) enchantments and then have the Buckler be just a +1 with Mirrored and Fortification and a few others. So i would only really be taking advantage of the AC bonus from the Large Shield.

My question is whether my having 2 magical shields would preclude me from taking advantage of the enchantment effects of the second shield if they have nothing to do with AC.

And yes i am fully aware that wearing a Buckler on my main arm will give me a -1 penalty to hit and i am fine with that.

So can you guys help me out?

This does have table (and book) variation. In the Core, it lists Shields as an item slot; item slots are generally for Wondrous Items, and this includes things like Boots of Speed, Cloak of Elvenkind, etc. Each one of those items takes up a slot.

However, in the later books (Ultimate Equipment being the biggest indicator here), Shields are not listed as being a slotted item, either in your Wondrous Item Slots (which is where it's listed in the Core), or elsewhere in that book. So, in the Core, you're technically limited, whereas in Ultimate Equipment, it's not cited as being a limitation; multiple interpretations, though many players are conservative and stick with the Core, it's a misnomer in my honest opinion.

The difference this stuff makes is that you could stack one shield with your Enhancement to AC (as well as other stuff), and the other one you could just have a +1 with a bunch of other enhancements; although this has its own balancing factors (budget being the biggest, as well as self-stacking not being plausible), the Core interpretation would only let you benefit from one shield at a time, as an actual Shield, whereas the other would let you do what I just described. At worst, you're forced to live with the Core limitation, and it's not horrible; it'll actually save you some cash in the long run. At best, you got options that are going to cost you an arm and a leg for minor increases (that are in my opinion not worth it).

Keep in mind that this does not invalidate your ability to enhance a Shield as a weapon; those sorts of enhancements are applicable regardless, so if you were planning to, for example, TWF with the Large Shield and the Longsword and you were using the Buckler's enhancements, the Weapon enhancements on the Heavy Shield would still function, because it is still a weapon.


Darksol, shields are stated as a slotted item on Ultimate Equipment page206.

Ultimate Equipment p206 wrote:
There are 15 categories of slotted wondrous items. Armor, rings, and shields are described in other sections of this book, while the 11 other body slots are detailed below.

Furthermore, there is no contradictory statement in Ultimate Equipment that negates or even can even be interpreted to be a negation of the text in the CRB.

You are drawing an incorrect conclusion when you state that item slots are generally for Wondrous Items. Just because the number of Wondrous Item slots outnumber the number of non-Wondrous Item slots does not in any way mean that only wondrous items are slotted.

Specifically, there are 4 slots that are not wondrous items (Armor, 2x Rings, and Shield).

Also, it is not wondrous items in core that lists the types of slots, it is in the general magic item rules on page 459.

In short, there is no book variation on whether magic shields take a shield slot. You cannot benefit from two shields with shield enhancements (bonuses and abilities) at the same time.

There is table variation on the interpretation of whether that applies to shields as a whole or shields used as a weapon vs used for defensive purposes.

It is reasonable, that on a second shield, weapon enhancements (bonuses and abilities) apply while shield enhancements (bonuses and abilities) do not since weapons do not have a slot limit.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
CountofUndolpho wrote:
Castilonium wrote:
A meridian belt lets you switch out your rings faster, just for what it's worth
Seems remarkably cheap for it's usefulness, not one for shields or armour that I can find.

There is that issue that it ties up one of the more important slots on the body.

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