Dismissing Wind Walk: what happens?


Rules Questions


I posted this to an old thread with Wind Walk questions but really hoping to have a response before my next game session, Thursday night.

Basically, want to know what happens when a Cleric dismisses Wind Walk:
1) it still takes time for the party to re-materialize in solid form because, "Each change to and from vaporous form takes 5 rounds."

OR

2) the party instantly re-materializes because-
A) this was how the spell worked in 3.0; "The character, however, may dismiss the spell, ending it immediately. The character may even dismiss it for individual wind walkers and not others."
B) why the heck else would you Dismiss a spell if it still took you the 5 Rounds to re-materialize?

On the one hand this seems like a pretty basic question, but on the other I can see where the interpretation gets...cloudy. {cymbal crash}

Any thoughts appreciated.


"(D) Dismissible: If the duration line ends with “(D),” you can dismiss the spell at will. You must be within range of the spell's effect and must speak words of dismissal, which are usually a modified form of the spell's verbal component. If the spell has no verbal component, you can dismiss the effect with a gesture. Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

A spell that depends on concentration is dismissible by its very nature, and dismissing it does not take an action, since all you have to do to end the spell is to stop concentrating on your turn."

Dimissing it ends it. You become solid, and fall.


Thanks for the reply. Hoping for a few responses, even if different interpretations.


I think 'instantly turn solid if dismissed' is a reasonable answer. "Each change to and from vaporous form takes 5 rounds" is part of the spell effect, and no longer applies if the spell is dismissed. This is logically consistent, and makes dismissal into a valid tactical decision, so unless you have some contrary evidence, I'd go with that.


The change still takes 5 rounds if the spell is dismissed.

Liberty's Edge

I agree with alexd on this. Unless otherwise stated, a dismissal ends the spell fully and immediately. Since it is not otherwise stated, dismissing the spell immediately makes everyone solid and they all begin to fall at full speed.


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It becomes Windfall and, curiously, you all get rich...


Matthew Downie wrote:
"Each change to and from vaporous form takes 5 rounds" is part of the spell effect, and no longer applies if the spell is dismissed. This is logically consistent, and makes dismissal into a valid tactical decision, so unless you have some contrary evidence, I'd go with that.

No contrary evidence per se, but some contrary opinions, such as Cap. Darling's.

For me, possibility 2B (why the heck would you Dismiss the spell if it still took you the 5 Rounds to re-materialize?) is the key. Thoughts on this aspect?


DungeonMastering.com wrote:
For me, possibility 2B (why the heck would you Dismiss the spell if it still took you the 5 Rounds to re-materialize?) is the key. Thoughts on this aspect?

Because it lasts, what, one hour per level if I recall?

If you're 10th level and you want to fly a couple hundred miles to a city, you'll get there in less than 4 hours and you might not want to sit around as a puffy cloud for the next 6 hours.

Of course, you could personally switch back and forth into and out of mist form so it might not be too much of a problem, so you could leave it on and just stay in solid form. So maybe there is no reason to dismiss it at all.

That said, pretty much every helpful spell with a duration is also dismissable. While making this one dismissable is probably unnecessary, it might just be there for completeness. It is, if nothing else, an interesting way to kill off a disliked companion...

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
alexd1976 wrote:

"(D) Dismissible: If the duration line ends with “(D),” you can dismiss the spell at will. You must be within range of the spell's effect and must speak words of dismissal, which are usually a modified form of the spell's verbal component. If the spell has no verbal component, you can dismiss the effect with a gesture. Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

A spell that depends on concentration is dismissible by its very nature, and dismissing it does not take an action, since all you have to do to end the spell is to stop concentrating on your turn."

Dimissing it ends it. You become solid, and fall.

There is a little problem with your interpretation, the part I bolded.

PRD wrote:

Wind Walk

...
Components V, S, DF
...
You alter the substance of your body to a cloudlike vapor (as the gaseous form spell)
...
Gaseous Form
...
It [the target of the spell] can't attack or cast spells with verbal, somatic, material, or focus components while in gaseous form.

If the cast is in gaseous form he can't dismiss the spell.


DM_Blake wrote:
It is, if nothing else, an interesting way to kill off a disliked companion...

You mean dismissing it on them while you're zooming around in cloud form? Cruel Blake, cruel. Makes me worried about the tactic of someone controlling our Cleric, then 'pulling the plug' on us while we're doing our Neo Superman imitation.

Which wouldn't work if the spell's dismissal required 5 rounds to materialize.


DungeonMastering.com wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
It is, if nothing else, an interesting way to kill off a disliked companion...

You mean dismissing it on them while you're zooming around in cloud form? Cruel Blake, cruel. Makes me worried about the tactic of someone controlling our Cleric, then 'pulling the plug' on us while we're doing our Neo Superman imitation.

Which wouldn't work if the spell's dismissal required 5 rounds to materialize.

It doesn't.

If the spell ends normally, it takes those 5 rounds. If the magic is just turned off (dismissed) then there no magic remaining to slowly end the spell.

Compare it to turning off your computer. You could click Start then Shut Down. If you do, Windows will slowly turn off each running application, it will check for updates and even apply them, and eventually it will shut down. It could take a while. But if you just pull the power cord out of the wall, the computer shuts off instantly - it doesn't take the time to gently close the applications or anything else because it has no power to execute these shut-down routines.

Likewise, if you allow Wind Walk to shut down on its own, the magic of the spell causes it to shut down gently, over a 5 round process. But if you just "pull the plug", it has no magic to execute the gentle end-of-spell routines.


Diego Rossi wrote:
If the caster is in gaseous form he can't dismiss the spell.

That's a very good point.

I wonder if Silent Spell would allow it to be silently dismissed? I suppose it would require that the spell were actually cast with Silent Spell, but if so, then maybe it could be un-cast the same way?

Or the caster could just spend the 5 rounds materializing himself and then give his companions the surprise of their (tragically shortened) lives.

Hmmmmm, I wonder if he could spend just one round materializing only his mouth...


DM_Blake, thank you for the computer analogy/metaphor. That helps a lot & should be enough to explain it to my group.

But Diego Rossi is indeed correct- without a mouth you can't utter a command word, so if the caster is also in Wind Walk form, then the group is indeed stuck counting down 5 rounds. Brutal.

In the end, our group played it the right way, even if for an accidental reason.

Thank you everyone. I think this 'solves the puzzle.'


If you were trying make a wind walk assault, and the GM was enforcing the 'can't dismiss because you can't dismiss' rule, you could have the caster land somewhere nearby and solidify, then the rest of the group drops in on the enemy, then the caster dismisses the spell.


DungeonMastering.com wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
"Each change to and from vaporous form takes 5 rounds" is part of the spell effect, and no longer applies if the spell is dismissed. This is logically consistent, and makes dismissal into a valid tactical decision, so unless you have some contrary evidence, I'd go with that.

No contrary evidence per se, but some contrary opinions, such as Cap. Darling's.

For me, possibility 2B (why the heck would you Dismiss the spell if it still took you the 5 Rounds to re-materialize?) is the key. Thoughts on this aspect?

This is from the spell description

"A wind walker can regain its physical form as desired and later resume the cloud form. Each change to and from vaporous form takes 5 rounds, which counts toward the duration of the spell (as does any time spent in physical form). As noted above, you can dismiss the spell, and you can even dismiss it for individual wind walkers and not others."
Notice how the dismissing part dosent say anything about shortening the change time. The change time is there to avoid the windwalk assult. You clearly came here for one answer and good luck with silenced windwalk assults.


No Cap., I didn't. I see the logic on both sides, but a lot of people interpret the dismissal as ending the spell suddenly enough for everyone to immediately re-form.

By saying your opinion was contrary, I wasn't implying anything negative, honest.

The fact that they specifically point out that you can dismiss the spell- right after talking about the 5 round change time- to me, says they mean you can negate that IF you dump the spell effects.

But, as Diego pointed out, the caster has to be able to speak to dismiss it since Wind Walk has a verbal component. If he''s Wind Walking, he can't do this until 5 Rounds later. That's the balance part of the Windwalk Assault to me. Though I'm not understanding your silenced comment.


DungeonMastering.com wrote:

No Cap., I didn't. I see the logic on both sides, but a lot of people interpret the dismissal as ending the spell suddenly enough for everyone to immediately re-form.

By saying your opinion was contrary, I wasn't implying anything negative, honest.

The fact that they specifically point out that you can dismiss the spell- right after talking about the 5 round change time- to me, says they mean you can negate that IF you dump the spell effects.

But, as Diego pointed out, the caster has to be able to speak to dismiss it since Wind Walk has a verbal component. If he''s Wind Walking, he can't do this until 5 Rounds later. That's the balance part of the Windwalk Assault to me. Though I'm not understanding your silenced comment.

As i see it it is the verbal component that make so the Spell cannot be dismissed while in air form. So if you use silenced Spell meta magic feat, or a rod pehaps, you are good to go with what appear to be the popular interpretation of the Spell.


SRD

Air Walk wrote:
Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends in this way if the air walk spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.

This calls out what happens upon abrupt ending. Otherwise, no buffer.

Wind Walk should be no different. Since it does not give text for a nice fade, it stops abruptly. Any gaseous critters become solid and start falling. No 5 round change. Besides, how are you still in the air when semisolid?

/cevah


Cevah wrote:

Besides, how are you still in the air when semisolid?

/cevah

Magic?

*shrug*

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