Lucifer


Television

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here.

Looks disappointing. He really doesn't give the impression of being the second most powerful being in existence after God and just slumming it for fun. He seems to silly, not poised or removed enough.
Let's hope the show is better than the trailer promises.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Maybe he's the post Neil Gaimon Lucifer, having hung up his crown and given the keys to Hell to Dream of the Endless.


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It is supposed to be that Lucifer, LazarX- the show is based on Mike Carey's Lucifer series for Vertigo.

(Very, very loosely based, from what I have read of the premise and is evidenced in the trailers. Which is too bad, because Carey's series is a really excellent character driven story with a massive and tightly woven plot.)

Scarab Sages

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Having collected the entire Lucifer comic series, from what I've seen so far of the TV show the two have three things in common:

Lucifer is the main character.
He has abandoned his rulership of Hell.
He's running a piano bar in LA named Lux.

That's it. Otherwise, it appears to be a police procedural.

And since that comic was a favorite of mine, and the Lucifer character one of my favorite interpretations, I shall most definitely be skipping this abomination.

Dark Archive

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Lucifer they have here seems a little too jovial and rather ... underwhelming in sheer force of Will.

My idea of Lucifer, based on Sandman is he is walking Charisma personified.

Hitler would swoon.

They also missed a golden opportunity not to make him a blonde, I mean if he is in LA he needs to be a blonde. Like a young Sting or Bowie.

Speaking of which, I think this generation is long overdue for their Sting or Bowie.


Lucifer is not second most powerful being in existence after God. The second most powerful being in existence after God would most likely be Michael the archangel and after Michael there are other archangels like Gabriel the archangel, raphael the archangel, Uriel the archangel, Ariel the archangel, Sariel the archangel, Sandalphon the archangel, Raguel the archangel and so on.

Lucifer is not that powerful compered to other angels as he is just a fallen Cherubim meaning he is weaker then the Seraphim and extremely weaker then a archangel. What make Lucifer dangerous is that he is extremely seductive and persuasive and enjoys leading mortals and other angels and spiritual beings into evil and sin which usually leads them to there own down fall. In many ways he is a prime example of the saying "misery loves company".


Mr.u wrote:

Lucifer is not second most powerful being in existence after God. The second most powerful being in existence after God would most likely be Michael the archangel and after Michael there are other archangels like Gabriel the archangel, raphael the archangel, Uriel the archangel, Ariel the archangel, Sariel the archangel, Sandalphon the archangel, Raguel the archangel and so on.

Lucifer is not that powerful compered to other angels as he is just a fallen Cherubim meaning he is weaker then the Seraphim and extremely weaker then a archangel. What make Lucifer dangerous is that he is extremely seductive and persuasive and enjoys leading mortals and other angels and spiritual beings into evil and sin which usually leads them to there own down fall. In many ways he is a prime example of the saying "misery loves company".

Depends on which version of the mythology you subscribe to. There's much less information about angels in the actual Bible than commonly thought.

Placing Lucifer as the most powerful of the angels (at least before the fall) is fairly common in popular culture, if not according to strict theology. Who knows what version they're referencing for the show. I'm not sure if the comic sources made it clear either. Can't remember from Sandman and didn't read much of the Lucifer series.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I got to say...this show's whole premise just sounds amazingly stupid...


MMCJawa wrote:
I got to say...this show's whole premise just sounds amazingly stupid...

Yes it is stupid, extremely so

Scarab Sages

Mr.u wrote:

Lucifer is not second most powerful being in existence after God. The second most powerful being in existence after God would most likely be Michael the archangel and after Michael there are other archangels like Gabriel the archangel, raphael the archangel, Uriel the archangel, Ariel the archangel, Sariel the archangel, Sandalphon the archangel, Raguel the archangel and so on.

Lucifer is not that powerful compered to other angels as he is just a fallen Cherubim meaning he is weaker then the Seraphim and extremely weaker then a archangel. What make Lucifer dangerous is that he is extremely seductive and persuasive and enjoys leading mortals and other angels and spiritual beings into evil and sin which usually leads them to there own down fall. In many ways he is a prime example of the saying "misery loves company".

Yes, but since they're supposedly basing this off the version of Lucifer envisioned by Gaiman, Sandman comics established that he was, indeed, the second most powerful being in existence.


Aberzombie wrote:
Mr.u wrote:

Lucifer is not second most powerful being in existence after God. The second most powerful being in existence after God would most likely be Michael the archangel and after Michael there are other archangels like Gabriel the archangel, raphael the archangel, Uriel the archangel, Ariel the archangel, Sariel the archangel, Sandalphon the archangel, Raguel the archangel and so on.

Lucifer is not that powerful compered to other angels as he is just a fallen Cherubim meaning he is weaker then the Seraphim and extremely weaker then a archangel. What make Lucifer dangerous is that he is extremely seductive and persuasive and enjoys leading mortals and other angels and spiritual beings into evil and sin which usually leads them to there own down fall. In many ways he is a prime example of the saying "misery loves company".

Yes, but since they're supposedly basing this off the version of Lucifer envisioned by Gaiman, Sandman comics established that he was, indeed, the second most powerful being in existence.

Lucifer is equal in power to Michael Demiurgos in the DC/Vertigo/Sandman comics.


Mr.u wrote:

Lucifer is not second most powerful being in existence after God. The second most powerful being in existence after God would most likely be Michael the archangel and after Michael there are other archangels like Gabriel the archangel, raphael the archangel, Uriel the archangel, Ariel the archangel, Sariel the archangel, Sandalphon the archangel, Raguel the archangel and so on.

Lucifer is not that powerful compered to other angels as he is just a fallen Cherubim meaning he is weaker then the Seraphim and extremely weaker then a archangel. What make Lucifer dangerous is that he is extremely seductive and persuasive and enjoys leading mortals and other angels and spiritual beings into evil and sin which usually leads them to there own down fall. In many ways he is a prime example of the saying "misery loves company".

Going by Sandman "Season of Mists" Dream says "Saving only his Creator he is, perhaps, the most powerful being there is."

So there is some uncertainty there and Dream may be wrong, so I guess I misremembered that line, thinking it was definite that Lucifer was the second most powerful being.


xavier c wrote:
Lucifer is equal in power to Michael Demiurgos in the DC/Vertigo/Sandman comics.

As I recall, this is more or less true*. Neither one ever really demonstrates their power in the series; both tend to take a more subtle approach- Lucifer manipulates, and Michael is a pacifist.

*In this universe, at least.


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... Sigh.

I am, of course, still going to watch it. Honestly, it looks somewhat entertaining, and if they hadn't said it was an adaptation of the comic, I'd probably be all over it. But as it is, I'm highly disappointed.

Sovereign Court

Me too :D Sigh.

Scarab Sages

Cthulhudrew wrote:
xavier c wrote:
Lucifer is equal in power to Michael Demiurgos in the DC/Vertigo/Sandman comics.

As I recall, this is more or less true*. Neither one ever really demonstrates their power in the series; both tend to take a more subtle approach- Lucifer manipulates, and Michael is a pacifist.

*In this universe, at least.

It's been awhile, but I thought they had also established (in the Mike Carrey series) the only reason Michael had been able to cast Lucifer out was because God lent him he power to do so.

Scarab Sages

Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Mr.u wrote:

Lucifer is not second most powerful being in existence after God. The second most powerful being in existence after God would most likely be Michael the archangel and after Michael there are other archangels like Gabriel the archangel, raphael the archangel, Uriel the archangel, Ariel the archangel, Sariel the archangel, Sandalphon the archangel, Raguel the archangel and so on.

Lucifer is not that powerful compered to other angels as he is just a fallen Cherubim meaning he is weaker then the Seraphim and extremely weaker then a archangel. What make Lucifer dangerous is that he is extremely seductive and persuasive and enjoys leading mortals and other angels and spiritual beings into evil and sin which usually leads them to there own down fall. In many ways he is a prime example of the saying "misery loves company".

Going by Sandman "Season of Mists" Dream says "Saving only his Creator he is, perhaps, the most powerful being there is."

So there is some uncertainty there and Dream may be wrong, so I guess I misremembered that line, thinking it was definite that Lucifer was the second most powerful being.

A degree of uncertainty from Dream, who also happens to refer to Lucifer as "the most beautiful" and "most powerful" of angels. And Lucifer himself acknowledges only one other as being greater than himself - "To him we no longer speak."


Aberzombie wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
xavier c wrote:
Lucifer is equal in power to Michael Demiurgos in the DC/Vertigo/Sandman comics.

As I recall, this is more or less true*. Neither one ever really demonstrates their power in the series; both tend to take a more subtle approach- Lucifer manipulates, and Michael is a pacifist.

*In this universe, at least.

It's been awhile, but I thought they had also established (in the Mike Carrey series) the only reason Michael had been able to cast Lucifer out was because God lent him he power to do so.

The devil is a liar.


xavier c wrote:
The devil is a liar.

Not the Gaiman/Carey version.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aberzombie wrote:

Yes, but since they're supposedly basing this off the version of Lucifer envisioned by Gaiman, Sandman comics established that he was, indeed, the second most powerful being in existence.

Then again, in Sandman, he had slipped enough in power that Hell was now being rulled by a Triumvirate with him, Baal, and Geryon, I think.


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LazarX wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:

Yes, but since they're supposedly basing this off the version of Lucifer envisioned by Gaiman, Sandman comics established that he was, indeed, the second most powerful being in existence.

Then again, in Sandman, he had slipped enough in power that Hell was now being rulled by a Triumvirate with him, Baal, and Geryon, I think.

The perils of a shared universe. I think that was set up in Hellblazer.

According to Sandman, that wasn't so much "slipped in power" as bored and trying to amuse himself with games. The same boredom that led him to quit.

Quote:
In the beginning I enjoyed it. I was -- I am -- more powerful than any of them. I could have destroyed any of them -- perhaps even all of them -- without much effort. So I manipulated them; set them one against the other; let them faction and divide and plot. But... but I grew weary, Dream Lord. Mightily weary. I ceased to care.

Dark Archive

LazarX wrote:
in Sandman, he had slipped enough in power that Hell was now being rulled by a Triumvirate with him, Baal, and Geryon, I think.

Politics, even in Hell there is politics.

Your 1st Edition knowledge is seeping into you DC Lazar, those are a Duke of Hell and Archfiend respectively.

The Triumvirate was Lucifer, Beelzebub, and Azazel.

Sovereign Court

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The good news is its Fox, so this wont make it past season 1.

Grand Lodge

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3 episodes and done.


Not blonde. :/


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wow, talk about loosely based.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Pan wrote:
The good news is its Fox, so this wont make it past season 1.

uh...see Got Ham, which is getting a second seasons..somehow...


MMCJawa wrote:
Pan wrote:
The good news is its Fox, so this wont make it past season 1.
uh...see Got Ham, which is getting a second seasons..somehow...

I despise that show. I haven't watched much, but what they did to Renee Montoya should be a crime.


Troodos wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Pan wrote:
The good news is its Fox, so this wont make it past season 1.
uh...see Got Ham, which is getting a second seasons..somehow...
I despise that show. I haven't watched much, but what they did to Renee Montoya should be a crime.

I'm actually quite a fan of this show. It's not 'quite' batman... but still has a strong Comic book 'nerd-fest' that appeals to me a LOT more then the average police procedural.

As for Lucifer? I will be shocked if this even makes it one season. At it's core it's still a show about making the devil the hero and that is a HARD sell on a good day. Claiming that it's based on a comic isn't going to make it sit better with the average viewer who's never even heard of the comic.

If Constantine couldn't get a whole season... I don't see this doing any better.

MAYBE if it was just leaps and bounds the best show on TV... but the trailer looks average at best. I don't think it's gots that spark to get over its' negatives.


phantom1592 wrote:
As for Lucifer? I will be shocked if this even makes it one season. At it's core it's still a show about making the devil the hero and that is a HARD sell on a good day. Claiming that it's based on a comic isn't going to make it sit better with the average viewer who's never even heard of the comic.

I'd say all you really need to do is make the devil the protagonist- there are many shows where the protagonist is not really a hero, and in fact has many despicable qualities (Breaking Bad, for instance). That would certainly be in keeping with the source material for Lucifer.

However, given the trailer here, I'd say you're pretty spot on in that they do appear to be trying to make him eminently a more heroic protagonist, and that certainly could pose problems with selling the narrative, particularly on a network show.

Sovereign Court

Well, the first episode looks good. I simply ADORE the actor doing Lucifer. The female cop is so-so for now. Her kid is cute.


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Yea, the love interest that is immune to the powers of the protagonist has been done and she's a little generic but it's better than being insufferable. But the actor playing Lucifer and his writing/lines is great.


I thought it was pretty good. Disappointing it's yet another procedural, but at the least appears to be a fairly well done one so far.

They gotta give the sidekick some personality though. She's so very, very bland.


What really bothers me is that they have such a facinating story to take from but instead appear to have decided on what is basically yet another cop show.

That bugs the heck out of me

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I like the actor. I liked his show Rush on USA in 2014. It was fun.

This almost seems like the same show (sleazy/glamorous LA), but solving more mysteries and doing less medicine. Still being charming and a troublemaker.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The show isn't terrible. Like has been said, a disappointing take on the original material, but long ago I got over my favorite books being done 'wrong' on the screen. Different interpretations, or in this case, a completely different story. It's all good.


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Bleh.
It bears little resemblance to the character or comics it is supposedly based on. It may have been OK on its own but it fails miserably as Vertigo Lucifer. I'm fine with interpretations. I am not as fine with changing everything important about a work and pretending it's the original.


I'm convinced Lucifer is comprised of a mix of one-liners and puns. And it's awesome. The kid with her 5 minutes of screentime is also growing on me.


Well after mentally seperating this from the original comic I find I can enjoy it quite a bit. It's fun and Ellis is brilliant.

To some extent I can kind of understand where the Bible thumpers screaming about the show are coming from.

Lucifer is a very likable character. Total jack-a@@ but you can't help but love him.

luckily he's a fictional character or we might all be damned to fire and brimstone for having a good chuckle at a TV show

Liberty's Edge

I liked the priest at the wedding.


phantom1592 wrote:
Troodos wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Pan wrote:
The good news is its Fox, so this wont make it past season 1.
uh...see Got Ham, which is getting a second seasons..somehow...
I despise that show. I haven't watched much, but what they did to Renee Montoya should be a crime.

I'm actually quite a fan of this show. It's not 'quite' batman... but still has a strong Comic book 'nerd-fest' that appeals to me a LOT more then the average police procedural.

As for Lucifer? I will be shocked if this even makes it one season. At it's core it's still a show about making the devil the hero and that is a HARD sell on a good day. Claiming that it's based on a comic isn't going to make it sit better with the average viewer who's never even heard of the comic.

If Constantine couldn't get a whole season... I don't see this doing any better.

MAYBE if it was just leaps and bounds the best show on TV... but the trailer looks average at best. I don't think it's gots that spark to get over its' negatives.

If someone can sell a show with a sadistic serial killer as the hero, anything is possible.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

It's just weird when people meet him and don't totally freak out because his name is Lucifer. He doesn't even call himself Lou. Or even Lou Cypher.

He also doesn't act super duper evil, or even formerly super duper evil. I've never read the comic, but I have perused the source material, and the TV character doesn't seem like a recovering source of all evil.

More like a spoiled brat from the suburbs.


Would you freak out if you met someone calling themselves Lucifer?
Or would you just think 'well, this is a silly person' or 'poor bastard whose parents named him that'?
As for the 'source of all evil', no.
In the comics the show is distantly based on, at least, evil is not an external force, it is something every creature choose on their own, and God is probably far more evil than Lucifer.

Liberty's Edge

In the mythology involved Lucifer isn't evil, because never had a choice. He rebelled against God because God made him to rebel. In fact one major theme is that he struggles against predestination, but he has no idea whether he's exercising his own free will or following God's plan.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I would react. Like "Your name is whatifer? For real?" And think they are crazy or have poor, ridiculous parents.

And not trust him.


so.....Do you think Lucifer broke his therapist with this latest episode?

Sovereign Court

Noooo totally not


Clearly not, since the preview for next week has her talking coherently to Maze about seeing Lucifer's face.


Damon Griffin wrote:
Clearly not, since the preview for next week has her talking coherently to Maze about seeing Lucifer's face.

Ah good to know, we don't usually get the previews when it shows in Canada


I am really really liking this show.

I like gaiman, even love him and his work, I met him and got his autograph, but I never got into his Lucifer and I don't think it would work on TV very well at all.

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