| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
1. True Strike negates concealment. That's something I found out a little while ago, actually, but I always see other people being surprised by it, too.
2. Produce Flame is also a light source spell. Yet more reason light and dancing lights should be nerfed, but that's my own private vendetta. :P
3. Command is basically the nastiest spell of its level. Okay, this isn't really a "ohey extra effect", but...seriously, the Attack of Opportunity potential alone can make it everything but "save or die" if your party is coordinated. Command is pretty much fully responsible for the one PC death I feel genuine guilt over. Used right, command is the haste of level one spells.
Contributor
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
My friend loves to tell this story about command. It was back in the days of Spelljammer, before the restrictions on what words could be used as commands. They were fighting githyanki raiders, and she cast the spell on one of them. Her command?
"Disembark."
Good times.
A good vocabulary can do terrible things with the Command spell ... :)
"Disrobe" was good for getting heavily-armoured characters to loose some AC (it would not get them to take it all off, but it would definitely cause them to lose some AC).
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
A lot of people seem to forget that Good Hope adds to Ability Checks, which means it also raises your Initiative modifier.
Very good spell.
|
Contributor
|
A lot of people seem to forget that Good Hope adds to Ability Checks, which means it also raises your Initiative modifier.
Very good spell.
Is it confirmed that Initiative is an ability check? (I'm also asking because of Noble Scion/Circlet combos.)
That said, good read on the spell. ^_^
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Is it confirmed that Initiative is an ability check? (I'm also asking because of Noble Scion/Circlet combos.)
I'm pretty sure it isn't. EDIT: Huh! So it is.
You really want to make sure you don't stub your toe while casting command - it's usually better not to make them "s#%&" or "f&*$." Of course, saying "g%*&%!mit" might have interesting results....
Check the Combat section again. It says Initiative is a Dexterity check.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Dot
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Web: Light it on fire and the web will hurt those inside for 2d4 fire, no save.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
AoE spells that do not offer a save (Evasion? Nope):
Ice Storm (4th)
Raging Rubble (3rd) also Distracts (nausea)
Fire Storm
Stone Call (2nd) and difficult terrain
Several others with a similar write up..keep an eye open!
Not offering a save is a very potent tool in certain situations (GMing), and I was surprised to notice some didnt have such, so including them here!
Grease: gives a +10 to escape artist/grapple checks. While not so unknown, it is good to remember, since Aid Another might give +2 yet this is a +10, when you dont want your friend to be swallowed next round.
Stone Call is the only spell in the game that cannot be avoided. Magic Missile has Shield to shut it down, but Stone Call? Nothing.
It does Bludgeoning damage.
A flier with DR5 won't care much about the spell. Make that DR10 and it is unlikely to even be scratched.
|
Grease: gives a +10 to escape artist/grapple checks. While not so unknown, it is good to remember, since Aid Another might give +2 yet this is a +10, when you dont want your friend to be swallowed next round.
Even better when combined with Liberating Command! Poor man's freedom of movement.
(And if you coat yourself with Alchemical Grease you get an extra +5 alchemical bonus for 4 hours (only 5gp!))
+10 circumstance (Grease spell)
+ 5 alchemical (Alchemical Grease)
+2*CL competence (Liberating command)
When used as an attack spell you can use the Alchemical Grease to increase the save DC by 1.
Other uses for grease: moving heavy objects, oiling hinges, prevent charges. Most of these work just as good (or better) from a wand.
Good old protection from evil grants a 2nd save (with a bonus) against certain spells.
Stone Call is the only spell in the game that cannot be avoided. Magic Missile has Shield to shut it down, but Stone Call? Nothing.
You can avoid it with DR* high enough.
If we do not count DR and Resistance, frost fall is similar good. That's why it is so good when combined with rime spell. The save is just to not be staggered but does not reduce the damage.*As the spell mentions the damage being bludgeoning DR works on it.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
3. Command is basically the nastiest spell of its level. Okay, this isn't really a "ohey extra effect", but...seriously, the Attack of Opportunity potential alone can make it everything but "save or die" if your party is coordinated. Command is pretty much fully responsible for the one PC death I feel genuine guilt over. Used right, command is the haste of level one spells.
I prefer Murderous Command. If you pick the right target - their movement will provoke AOOs - PLUS they'll take a swing at their buddy. And against animal level intelligence creatures - their buddy is likely to get upset and take a swing back.
dot
|
Is the op joking about light and dancing lights. Of all the spells in the book does IMO really don't need to be nerfed.
No I do not believe he is, and while I disagree with him on the matter I totally understand what he's saying.
I think Light/dancing Lights can be annoying much in the same sense that create water can be annoying, they all completely destroy certain plot hooks and types of encounters. Non-magical darkness is barely an issue with their existence.
|
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
But light is so much weaker than it was in previous versions - no longer can you use it to blind foes. Also the fact that you can only use one copy at a time is pretty limiting, especially if your group wants to spread out at all.
If you're spending a cantrip slot on light or dancing lights at low levels you're spending a not insignificant resource on being able to see rather than having an actual cool effect from a cantrip.
But light is so much weaker than it was in previous versions - no longer can you use it to blind foes. Also the fact that you can only use one copy at a time is pretty limiting, especially if your group wants to spread out at all.
If you're spending a cantrip slot on light or dancing lights at low levels you're spending a not insignificant resource on being able to see rather than having an actual cool effect from a cantrip.
What cool effect are you talking about?
Most casters have at least 4 cantrips. After cantrips 1,2 and 3 are chosen (probably Detect Magic, Prestidigitation/Create Water and maybe Read magic) what would you be choosing instead of light/dancing lights in your fourth slot?
EDIT: I can also see where KC is coming from. The existence of cantrips that effectively negate an environmental condition 95% of the time is somewhat ridiculous.
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
Non-magical darkness is barely an issue with their existence.
The same can be said of 1cp torches...
Non-magical darkness is barely an issue with their existence.
The million gold questions that come out of this:
- Will the other side take advantage and attack if you let your light spell lapse?
- Will the other side assume you are initiating hostilities if you cast light again?
Yes, non-magical darkness is typically a non-issue. I see people cast light on rocks and throw them down hallways. Heck, I do it. But even then, there is a consequence for the action. If you're hypothetically concerned about this, do you also have similar concerns about the Ioun Torch, which completely trivializes the timing concern?
I find that to be less of a concern that people who talk about casting Create Water every round for days to support a desert town.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Snapdragon fireworks is great for anti-swarm use, which most people realize, but it's also great for anti-caster use. You use your standard action each round, and then ready a move-action firework vs spell-casting.
The act of readying costs your standard action, regardless of the type of action being readied.
|
|
I find that to be less of a concern that people who talk about casting Create Water every round for days to support a desert town
Just so you know, this really doesn't work. The water created by create water disappears after 24 hours. You can live off it, but you can't fill a cistern for a town to live off after you leave.
|
|
Snapdragon fireworks is great for anti-swarm use, which most people realize, but it's also great for anti-caster use. You use your standard action each round, and then ready a move-action firework vs spell-casting.The act of readying costs your standard action, regardless of the type of action being readied.
Gah. My bad, I could have sworn that readying was whatever type of action you used. Nevermind then.
|
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
Side discussion on light and cantrips:
Back to the OT, we have used summon spells before to make Knowledge checks. Sometimes those outsiders have better rolls than the party. Also they sometimes have languages that the party might lack, so can be used to translate writing or talk to creatures.
I find that to be less of a concern that people who talk about casting Create Water every round for days to support a desert townJust so you know, this really doesn't work. The water created by create water disappears after 24 hours. You can live off it, but you can't fill a cistern for a town to live off after you leave.
Doesn't stop people from saying things like that and trying to be serious.
|
Snapdragon fireworks is great for anti-swarm use, which most people realize, but it's also great for anti-caster use. You use your standard action each round, and then ready a move-action firework vs spell-casting.
Snapdragon Fireworks also has the [light] descriptor, which means you can use it at extremely long range against Darkness spells. (Heightened if necessary.)
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
Non-magical darkness is barely an issue with their existence.The same can be said of 1cp torches...
Torches eat up carrying capacity, occupy a hand, and run out eventually. They're also easier to extinguish, and don't work under water.
I don't agree with the OP that light spells need nerfing, but I will say that one of the coolest moments I've experienced in a game involved searching a pitch-dark flooded tunnel for a switch, and if we'd had someone capable of casting light, it would have stripped all the tension and fun out of that situation.
|
|
Non-magical darkness is barely an issue with their existence.The same can be said of 1cp torches...
Torches eat up carrying capacity, occupy a hand, and run out eventually. They're also easier to extinguish, and don't work under water.
I don't agree with the OP that light spells need nerfing, but I will say that one of the coolest moments I've experienced in a game involved searching a pitch-dark flooded tunnel for a switch, and if we'd had someone capable of casting light, it would have stripped all the tension and fun out of that situation.
So would having a Dwarf or Half-Orc along. Light spells or at the very least sunrods are needed for non-darkvision races to adventure underground.
Magic Circle against Evil works on neutral outsiders for binding.
Lots of people get bent trying to figure out what circle to use and you can general default to MCaE.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Nerf nerfing.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No I do not believe he is, and while I disagree with him on the matter I totally understand what he's saying.I think Light/dancing Lights can be annoying much in the same sense that create water can be annoying, they all completely destroy certain plot hooks and types of encounters. Non-magical darkness is barely an issue with their existence.
Considering what other more powerful spells their are in the core. Being bothered by Dancing Light and Light just seems strange imo. I can respect it I truly can't understand it. Might as well ban easy access to torches then. As one can buy many of them with a gold piece.
I will say that one of the coolest moments I've experienced in a game involved searching a pitch-dark flooded tunnel for a switch, and if we'd had someone capable of casting light, it would have stripped all the tension and fun out of that situation.
I'm playing an AP whose name shall remain un-spoiled. So if you recognize my avatar/name and know what AP that is from some other post, stop reading now.
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Chill Touch can make Undead flee. Just came up in a game I'm in last night. I didn't know that. 8^)
I regularly prepare Chill Touch with my PFS magus for those pesky undead who are immune to my boosted Frostbite spells. I can't tell you how many GMs have looked at me and said, "It's undead, chill touch will just heal them", follow by me saying "au contraire, give me 3 will saves or be frightened", and then they say, "this is undead, it's immune", then I smile and say, "wanna bet?"
I'm betting people complaining about Light also ban races with Darkvision in their games
| 9 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm betting people complaining about Light also ban races with Darkvision in their games
How else are they going to get eaten by a grue?
Chill Touch can make Undead flee. Just came up in a game I'm in last night. I didn't know that. 8^)I regularly prepare Chill Touch with my PFS magus for those pesky undead who are immune to my boosted Frostbite spells. I can't tell you how many GMs have looked at me and said, "It's undead, chill touch will just heal them", follow by me saying "au contraire, give me 3 will saves or be frightened", and then they say, "this is undead, it's immune", then I smile and say, "wanna bet?"
Lol. I've done this as a player. This 1st-level spell totally saved the party from a two-handed warrior fighter juju zombie that was kicking the party's ass. He literally cleaved through our meat shields like tinder, made his way to my feeble-assed wizard, only to get b*~&%-slapped in the face and sent home crying to mommy.
No one could believe what just went down.
Tangent, but in the wanna bet topic, the first game I ever played the dm let me play a minotaur, and started by saying "You are lost in the woods..." and I said "No I'm not." Wanna bet moments are some of my favorites.
More on topic, the spell Chill Touch came up when we fought some ice caster, and that's when I found out it worked despite his immunity.
Also most of prestidigitation's every day use abilities, plus shields magic missile negation.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For the record, for everyone who mentioned my initial post about Light and Dancing Lights, I don't think either is overpowered. Indeed, I am quite glad they are 0 level, I was just making the point that they pretty easily remove natural darkness as being any sort of challenge. Sure there are multiple races with darkvision, many cheap alternatives, but many of those suffer some limitations (ie: torches getting wet). It may not be representative of the community as a whole but id say about 95% of the casters I've played with had one or the other prepared/known.
Back to the OP, Confusion's ability to make a group of enemies completely destroy each other was something that caught me off guard the first time I saw it used.
I also tend to forget that Shield blocks Magic Missile (edit: Ninja'd).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pyrotechnics is awesome. Two options in one spell. what other spell does that?
I dunno, prestidigitation?