Global Organized Play Coordinator
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I'm pretty excited to read feedback once people get to play this one, especially after playing 6-97. I think that both together will make for a truly memorable OP experience. Kudos to both John and Jim Groves for working together to make this a truly epic, two-sided special event.
Developer
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I am also excited to read and hear the feedback on this on. We've definitely endeavored to break some new ground with this adventure and Siege of Serpents, and I think folks are going to really enjoy the combined experience.
It is kind of you to offer a consumable from the fine state of New York, though I admit that I am not one for alcohol (even though I do approve any libations placed before Thurston Hillman). Make the adventure a great experience for your players, and I'll be happy.
Contributor—Canadian Maplecakes
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(even though I do approve any libations placed before Thurston Hillman).
Mmmmmmm, libations.
Honestly, I can't wait to see these two scenarios in action! Despite my nemesis, Jim Groves, being involved in one of them, I got to pitch some ideas for these specials awhile back, and so, they're close to my black heart.
Now, I should get back to working on [REDACTED]. Methinks I'm going to need to pull out all the stops in order to beat Groves this time!
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4
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Thanks for the kind words everybody. Except Hillman.
I think John Compton did an incredible job refining my work. Authors are supposed to be bold and confident, but I know there were some rough bits. Convention specials are their own special animals and this was my first. I think the Developer really deserves an extra round of applause here too.
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Designer
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Thanks for the kind words everybody. Except Hillman.
I think John Compton did an incredible job refining my work. Authors are supposed to be bold and confident, but I know there were some rough bits. Convention specials are their own special animals and this was my first. I think the Developer really deserves an extra round of applause here too.
Developers; don't forget Linda!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4
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Bless her heart, I zoomed right past credits page. Shame on me!
Mark, I'm not that vain as to stare at my own name. (And I was called Grover for my first twenty years of life, it took me 20 more to stop cringing at it.)
All due apologies! Three cheers for Linda Z-P! This doubly explains the awesome!
Serious you folks did a great job.
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Rknop, I know at least some of the art for the pregens is from the NPC Codex.
I've got some questions about one of the pregens, I'm going to toss it in spoilers, just to be safe.
1.) How does The Artist get a +12 to attack? I see she has slashing grace but that doesn't add to attack, unless there was a faq I missed.
That was the only thing I noticed at first glance. This looks like an amazing scenario, and I'm really looking forward to GM'ing this at Gencon!
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Rknop, I know at least some of the art for the pregens is from the NPC Codex.
I've got some questions about one of the pregens, I'm going to toss it in spoilers, just to be safe.
** spoiler omitted **
That was the only thing I noticed at first glance. This looks like an amazing scenario, and I'm really looking forward to GM'ing this at Gencon!
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** spoiler omitted **Rknop, I know at least some of the art for the pregens is from the NPC Codex.
I've got some questions about one of the pregens, I'm going to toss it in spoilers, just to be safe.
** spoiler omitted **
That was the only thing I noticed at first glance. This looks like an amazing scenario, and I'm really looking forward to GM'ing this at Gencon!
But Mitch is right because
+0 str + 5 bab +1 enhancement + 1 weapon focus +1 size
Or the scenario author could just give her a rapier instead (which can be finessed) and Fencing Grace.
My question is: can credit for this scenario really only be applied to a character who is exactly level 7 (or a level one)? Or should it be 6-8? We Be Goblins Too and Risen from the Sands set the precedent of +/- 1 level from the pregen levels.
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But Mitch is right because
"Slashing Grace just adds Dex to damage for a 1-handed slashing weapon. Dex to attack is still reliant on Weapon Finesse. The Artist is using a Scimitar which can't be Finessed."
I don't think that's correct. Slashing Grace says:
"Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon"Swashbuckler's Finesse says:
"At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons"
So with Swashbuckler's Finesse, Slashing Grace lets you use weapon finesse with a single one-handed slashing weapon AND add dex to damage.
With regular Weapon Finesse, the dex to attack part of Slashing Grace doesn't work.
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My question is: can credit for this scenario really only be applied to a character who is exactly level 7 (or a level one)? Or should it be 6-8? We Be Goblins Too and Risen from the Sands set the precedent of +/- 1 level from the pregen levels.
First Steps and The Dragon's Demand also set the precedent for chronicles that only apply at a single specified level.
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But Mitch is right because
"Slashing Grace just adds Dex to damage for a 1-handed slashing weapon. Dex to attack is still reliant on Weapon Finesse. The Artist is using a Scimitar which can't be Finessed."I don't think that's correct. Slashing Grace says:
"Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon"Swashbuckler's Finesse says:
"At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons"So with Swashbuckler's Finesse, Slashing Grace lets you use weapon finesse with a single one-handed slashing weapon AND add dex to damage.
With regular Weapon Finesse, the dex to attack part of Slashing Grace doesn't work.
The issue is that the pregen being discussed is NOT a Swashbuckler.
So she gets Dex to damage from Slashing Grace but Weapon Finesse does nothing since a Scimitar can't be Finessed without an ability like the Swashbuckler's Finesse.
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My question is: can credit for this scenario really only be applied to a character who is exactly level 7 (or a level one)? Or should it be 6-8? We Be Goblins Too and Risen from the Sands set the precedent of +/- 1 level from the pregen levels.First Steps and The Dragon's Demand also set the precedent for chronicles that only apply at a single specified level.
Dragon's Demand has a 3 level range for each chronicle. Also, you aren't using pregens. (Well, I suppose you could but you aren't required to like you are in WBG2 or Serpent's Rise.)
edit: Not trying to prove anything, just verifying that this is the intent. I can hear the howls of complaint already.
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I agree, the chronicle can only be applied when a character reaches level seven.
Regarding The Artist, the numbers check out when she is using arcane accuracy, but otherwise she comes up short (pun intended). They could give two ranks of perform (dance) and Dervish dance instead of slashing grace, it muddles up the flavor, but works.
I'm guessing there won't be a change, and it isn't really that big of a deal. If someone actually catches it when I run at Gencon, I'll tell them that they're already breaking the rules with an evil character, they should be a rebel and just run the character as presented. At any rate, I'm satisfied. I wanted to see if there was anything I was missing, and it doesn't appear that I am.
Edit: But how about that chronicle? Pretty sweet, right? I especially like the last boon.
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So she gets Dex to damage from Slashing Grace but Weapon Finesse does nothing since a Scimitar can't be Finessed without an ability like the Swashbuckler's Finesse.
Are they a saranite by any chance? They have a few ways of doing that. Or perhaps the author has seen so many scimitar wielding dex fighters he thought it was allowed.
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Are they a saranite by any chance? They have a few ways of doing that. Or perhaps the author has seen so many scimitar wielding dex fighters he thought it was allowed.
So she gets Dex to damage from Slashing Grace but Weapon Finesse does nothing since a Scimitar can't be Finessed without an ability like the Swashbuckler's Finesse.
Nope, not a Sarenrite. I dig the nicknames they gave each of the pregens.
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So, I went looking for the art for the pregens, and this is what I found:
The Artist - ISG 208
The Professional - NPC Codex 206*
The Experiment - Is in Strategy Guide, not sure if anywhere else
The Ambitious - NPC Codex 208*
The Vengeful - PFS Scenario #? I know it's a PFS scenario, just not sure which,
The Leader - ?
*Pawn exists.
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Assistant Developer
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So, I went looking for the art for the pregens, and this is what I found:
The Artist - ISG 208
The Professional - NPC Codex 206*
The Experiment - Is in Strategy Guide, not sure if anywhere else
The Ambitious - NPC Codex 208*
The Vengeful - PFS Scenario #? I know it's a PFS scenario, just not sure which,
The Leader - ?*Pawn exists.
Here are the locations for the other pieces of art on the list.
The Leader: Strategy Guide 17
The Vengeful: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Heart of the Jungle 3
The Experiment: Strategy Guide 23
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The adventure was great... there are a few issues that I saw...
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The first: Pregens were poorly equipped... a group of level 5 PCs are generally better equipped then the Pregens.
I understand the subpar equipment for the normal Pregens, but these are single use AND supposed to be an ELITE team.
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The second: GMs did not seem to know if Pregen death was meant to be recorded as PC death. Some tables death was recorded others did not.
The general reason seems to have been that We Be Goblins, where you are also forced to play pregens, death is not imposed.
Interesting side note... We Be Goblins Too does impose PC death...
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The third: The poorly equipped Pregens are expected to kill a 'caster that is over 1.5x their level, a hard feat with well equipped PCs.
Diehard System Mastery not withstanding, tables of casual and/or new players were set up to fail.
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The fourth: At least one of the PC's mission handout was almost worthless as it included no real instructions.
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The fifth: From what I was hearing from players and GMs, most that survived did so because they ran away or their GM softballed the adventure.
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The sixth: There was very little time for the players to review and prep their Pregen... For those of us who are not a walking encyclopedia of the whole system, we need a fair bit of time to review all the aspects of their Pregen.
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That said, I had a great time playing the adventure and would love to see more like it if some of the above issues are fixed.
I loved the chance to play the 'Bad Guy' and work the other side for a change.
I loved the fact that it was set at/in the Grand Lodge, as it is an oft talked about aspect of PFS and PFSOP, but we almost never have encounters on the grounds, nor really get the chance to explore the grounds in character.
I loved the concepts behind the Pregens, both fluff and mechanical, and the artwork used for them... If I could just get a mini for The Artist.
All-in-all I would give it 4 out of 5.
A couple of quick thoughts regarding your issues:
1: I disagree, but this is really going to vary from player to player.
2: All of the Free RPG Day modules have pregens, and out of all of them, WBG1 is the only one that doesn't impose any penalty for death.
3 and 5 are getting combined because I see them as part of the same issue: The BBEG has tactics that are specifically desined to give the party a chance, it will be a hard fight to be sure, but as long as they PC's try to work together they should be able to overcome, especially. The BBEG isn't supposed to use his hardest hitting tactics right out of the gate. It's not softballing if the party is set up to win.
4: This can be tricky, but like most secondary success conditions should require extra effort on behalf of the party. Working together is key, or at least not trying to step on each others toes. As achieving some secondaries can make it easier for others to achieve theirs.
6: Is valid. This will hopefully be less of an issue after Gencon when 4-stars are allowed to run it, and I'm hoping my table at Gencon will have time to look at their pregens before mustering finishes.
It sounds like you had a good time at Paizocon, and I appreciate you leaving feedback, it will make running at Gencon better!
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My table really didn't have that much trouble with Aram Zey. I'm far from a killer GM. (I also make PCs that I suspect most people would consider "reasonable contributors but not overly optimized", but a certain (vocal, and to me, utterly annoying) subset of PFS would consider "worthless".)
Part of the key is to pay attention to Aram Zay's tactics. He has several all-day-long buffs already going. He has a bunch of other buffs that he puts up when the party first comes into the room. At the time, they're probably wasting some time attacking his illusion. If they set off the trap (my table did), he gets more of the buffs up ahead of time. (My Aram Zey was able to get basically all of his "before the combat" buffs up.)
Then, he doesn't start with direct damage spells, but with debuffing spells. In my case, the party opened with a blast of dragon breath, so I had my Aram Zey open by casting "Resist Energy" (acid) on himself. My party figured out basically within a round that the illusion was an illusion; this was thanks to the invisible wizard having See Invisibility up, and moving into the room where he saw Zey over the door, plus the dragon with blindsense flying into the room.
Zey got a feeblemind off on the wizard, which the oracle was able to heal, and a few other things off, but it really wasn't long before he was constantly flanked or (eventually) grappled. (And he did roll a 2 on the concentration check to Dimension Door out of that grapple.)
I think Zey's tactics were deliberately written so that he didn't immediately kill the party. He's arrogant and overconfident, and is supposed to be harrying and taunting them. Honestly, I don't believe he's hugely overpowered. He's supposed to be a badass enemy, at CR of APL+4, and as one of the top three (known) dudes of the Pathfinder Society. So there is risk. But it's very far from unfair, unless you have one of those GMs who likes to collect notches on his GM screen and will even ignore written tactics in the pursuit of that.
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2: All of the Free RPG Day modules have pregens, and out of all of them, WBG1 is the only one that doesn't impose any penalty for death.
Do they have enough wealth on them to sell it all and buy a ressurection?
If not, you can just start a new #####-25 , Name him doornail, and apply the death to him rather than losing your level 6 character or half your level 6 characters gear.
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It's a dishonest death by dishonest design.With an honest 'put it on a non-existent character for a non-existent death' clause, making the repercussions equal 'you can't use that number next time you make a character'.
Or in most cases, if you want the boons bad enough, you can probably sell the pregen's gear to recover the death without paying very much (if any) of your own character's loot.
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Or in most cases, if you want the boons bad enough, you can probably sell the pregen's gear to recover the death without paying very much (if any) of your own character's loot.It's a dishonest death by dishonest design.With an honest 'put it on a non-existent character for a non-existent death' clause, making the repercussions equal 'you can't use that number next time you make a character'.
This. All of the pregens (minus the special seventh pregen) have enough gp in gear that they can sell it for a raise. Pretty much as long as the party doesn't wipe, and there is an intact body, then death doesn't matter. I don't know if it is allowed by RAW, but I would probably allow other party members to sell their pregen gear to help out with costs if something more drastic is required.
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I too thought that the pregens were well built, and made a great team. Zey was a bit challenging, but not overwhelming once we got on top of him. His tactics kept him from just obliterating us on the first round (after hitting us pretty hard with a chain lightning in the surprise round). ,
Things like our wizard having see invis/ dragon blindsense, to direct the magus's glitterdust. Dragon carrying the step-up distruptive magus and dropping her next to him, readied bow attacks against spellcasting, and so forth enabled us to defeat him without any deaths.
Edit: my table had a great time with the entire adventure, and I was happy to play this as my only slot that I wasn't running. The pregen back stories and the tie to 6-97 all helped make this a memorable experience.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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By 5th level most players are going to be keeping things stocked on their PCs, like;
A Wand of Cure Light Wounds or Infernal Healing
A Potion of Fly (or 2) <based more on experiences getting to lvl 5>
A Potion of Gaseous Form or Invisibility (or 2)
A way to bypass Hardness <especially during Season 6 scenarios>
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The Pregens were well built and had great backstories... Paizo went above and beyond on that, especially the backstories.
The Pregens were underequipped for an ELITE party of lvl 7s.
Give the party a wand or two of healing, a few potions of Gaseous Form/Invisibility/Fly, and make sure they all have ways around Hardness, and they will fair much better... The final fight will still be hard (as it should be), but party will be better set to meet the requirements.
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Another issue I was reminded about... it appears that a couple of the side-missions required Trained skill checks that the party did not have...
The players are expressly given an opportunity at the start of the game to review the gear listed on their pregens and purchase any items they think shore up gaps in their current set up. Also 322 has like 1800 unspent gp.
The PCs have an opportunity to purchase any additional
supplies before traveling into the Grand Lodge. This is
primarily a chance for them to fill any perceived gaps
in their starting equipment, as none of the PCs has an
especially large amount of discretionary gold.
I was GMing, and my table pooled their excess gold and purchased a scroll of breath of life and a wand of cure light wounds, along with several lvl 1-2 potions. I also reminded them that they are evil, and offered them the option to steal some of those potions if they so choose.
One took me up on the offer, and I got to do a little RP with the Vengeful as he acquired several potions of invisibility from an oblivious gnome alchemist.
As a result of all this, my players went in probably better equipped than most. This, combined with excellent preparation and cooperation (something lacking in a few tables I've run) lead to a flawless victory for these dastardly Aspis agents.
Zey was challenging, and I made them use burn that BOL scroll, but in the end he fell like the rest--bloody and opinionated.
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Now that I have played the scenario, I wanted to hop on and thank you for the great experience Walter! The challenge of that last fight was great, and thinking back, I would have done something that could have crippled the man quite a bit by stealing something from him.
Also, I love how Zey mocked us, that cheeky man.....