Supergirl


Television

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National City will probably be on the other side of one of the remaining 51 dimensional breaches, rather than a permanent integration into the Arrowverse.

I do wonder what will prompt a trip through a different wormhole after they've been to Earth-2 the month before.

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If it's through a breach, then the easiest explanation is that it will be an accident that sends Barry through. I do hope it's part of the Arrowverse though, to allow for more potentials for a full shared universe rather than a one off.

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JoelF847 wrote:
If it's through a breach, then the easiest explanation is that it will be an accident that sends Barry through. I do hope it's part of the Arrowverse though, to allow for more potentials for a full shared universe rather than a one off.

It makes absolutely no sense. Superman is already established as a hero. For years.

How is there no mention of him anywhere in the Arrowverse before this?


Arrow had a throwaway line about Oracle last week, which implies the existence of the Batfamily in the Arrowverse. (Though it then makes one wonder why so many of the people that are usually harassing Batman are bothering Ollie instead.)

As far as Superman, I can't think of an instance where someone not mentioning him is a glaring hole in retrospect, but I could be missing something. It's not like Ollie or Barry have had to the deal with the sort of Earth-threatening alien menaces that Superman typically has to handle.

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Kalshane wrote:
Arrow had a throwaway line about Oracle last week, which implies the existence of the Batfamily in the Arrowverse. (Though it then makes one wonder why so many of the people that are usually harassing Batman are bothering Ollie instead.)

They also had a throwaway cameo of Harley Quinn with the suicide squad. Harley implies Joker, who implies Batman.

(Likewise Bludhaven for Gotham.)

But the Flarrowverse can accommodate as many masked vigilantes as they want - those don't upset the status quo as much. And, of course, we'll never see a direct reference to Batman or the Joker because CW doesn't have the rights.

But the Supergirl universe has an active Superman, for quite some time. It has the DEO, and according to the episode a week ago, the presence of aliens is something worth mentioning in national politics. That's clearly not the Flarrowverse.

As far as why so many Batman villians are after Oliver Queen in the Flarrowverse, it's the same reason that Maxwell Lord has become a straight-up Lex Luthor expy, and why Toyman and Bizarro are showing up with Supergirl first.


Why should there be a mention of Superman in Arrow? Really, nothing there really required his attention. Their threats really aren't BIG enough to warrant him. Nobody has come out and claimed there couldn't be a superman or powers were impossible...

Though that may have been implied with Flash's reactor explosion. Though I think SOME of them have been around before that. Hawkman/Hawkwoman specifically have been around.

Just because there hasn't been a crossover, doesn't mean there COULDN'T be a crossover. I've had a few Green Arrow books, and a LOT of Batman books, and a lot of Flash books... and I can EASILY go a year or two where nobody mentions Superman on the page. He... just doesn't make it into a conversation yet.

WHICH I actually prefer. This idea of any world with a superman doesn't need anyone else, because he'll just save everyone all the time... is REALLY boring.

There have been a LOT of serious catastrophes in the DC books where Superman was NOT there to stop them and had to be busy with something else at the time.

Scarab Sages

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Early in the season, conversations about Supes made it apparent (at least to me) that Metropolis is swimming with problems that the public perceives are there because of Superman. At least in Supergirl universe, he seems to have his hands more than full keeping Metropolis from falling into the sea to worry about National City, Central City, or Starling City, each of which has its stable of heroes to keep safe.

A quick perusal of internet gives some geographic relativeness to the series as well. Flash in KS/MO, Arrow in somewhere from IA to OH, and Supergirl in presumably SoCAL (2 hour drive from Monticeito CA in ep 6). We've got about a third of the country's regions with hero presence, and from the series' so far, these regions seem busy containing their own bad guys to worry about the other parts of the US. I can easily see them all existing in the same universe.

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Punctuation may prove me wrong, but we'll see in march...

io9 Morning Spoilers


archmagi1 wrote:
Arrow in somewhere from IA to OH,

How was that determined? I've been imagining the show's Star/ling City being more Pacific Northwest, and the old Atlas of the DC Universe puts it in Northern California.

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So Metropolis is on the east coast? Because that would make sense that there was no mention of Superman prior to that.

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phantom1592 wrote:
Nobody has come out and claimed there couldn't be a superman or powers were impossible...

You're right that it's simply possible that things like Superman himself, the DEO, or Aliens-in-politics simply haven't come up in dialog. But the existence of Superman opens up 'alien' as an explanation for weird stuff (like the realization that some metahumans have been around in places that are not Central City and from times predating the accelerator meltdown.) But that hasn't been something that the S.T.A.R. labs crew has even contemplated.

So far, it's all been Super Science (Mirakuru, Particle Accelerator Metahumans, Atom's suit), or as of the most recent seasons, Magic (Damien Darhk, Constantine, the Hawks).

Also, the Vixen webseries established that Cisco is looking for metahuman activity across the US (they find Vixen in Detroit). Are you telling me that Barry wouldn't at least try to go visit Superman?

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Hama wrote:
So Metropolis is on the east coast? Because that would make sense that there was no mention of Superman prior to that.

Metropolis and Gotham are both expys of New York City.

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Damon Griffin wrote:
archmagi1 wrote:
Arrow in somewhere from IA to OH,
How was that determined? I've been imagining the show's Star/ling City being more Pacific Northwest, and the old Atlas of the DC Universe puts it in Northern California.

its mentioned that its 600 miles from central city. source Look in the part about the TV show

EDIT: Hey, looks like ohio valley in season 3 and PNW in season 4 lol.


Ross Byers wrote:
Hama wrote:
So Metropolis is on the east coast? Because that would make sense that there was no mention of Superman prior to that.
Metropolis and Gotham are both expys of New York City.

I thought I'd read somewhere that the original intent of the Metropolis/Gotham divide was that they were both early 20th-Century Chicago - only Metropolis was "Chicago In The Daytime" and Gotham was "Chicago In The Nighttime."

Certainly modern Metropolis/Gotham are the DCU equivalent of NYC, now, though. Just as everything important that happens in the Marvel Universe happens in New York, so too was DC based there for ages, so it makes sense.


Hama wrote:
So Metropolis is on the east coast? Because that would make sense that there was no mention of Superman prior to that.

Per the DC Atlas, yes. Metropolis in Delaware and Gotham in New Jersey. With the number of uni-/multi-/omniversal shakeups at DC since the Atlas was published in 1990, who knows where those cities are located now?

Prior to the Atlas, I'd always imagined Gotham as a replacement for New York and Metropolis as a replacement for Chicago.


archmagi1 wrote:

its mentioned that its 600 miles from central city. source Look in the part about the TV show

EDIT: Hey, looks like ohio valley in season 3 and PNW in season 4 lol.

Yep, it moved. Also, I think we were agreed that Central City/Keystone City were stand-ins for Kansas City MO and Kansas City KS (and the Atlas supports that), but that 600-mile reference in the TV show section of that wiki article would have placed Central City in Cleveland.


Ross Byers wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:
Nobody has come out and claimed there couldn't be a superman or powers were impossible...

You're right that it's simply possible that things like Superman himself, the DEO, or Aliens-in-politics simply haven't come up in dialog. But the existence of Superman opens up 'alien' as an explanation for weird stuff (like the realization that some metahumans have been around in places that are not Central City and from times predating the accelerator meltdown.) But that hasn't been something that the S.T.A.R. labs crew has even contemplated.

So far, it's all been Super Science (Mirakuru, Particle Accelerator Metahumans, Atom's suit), or as of the most recent seasons, Magic (Damien Darhk, Constantine, the Hawks).

Also, the Vixen webseries established that Cisco is looking for metahuman activity across the US (they find Vixen in Detroit). Are you telling me that Barry wouldn't at least try to go visit Superman?

Well, once we throw magic in anything else is believable too. A world that has lazarus pits and reincarnation and time travel really doesn't take anything else off the table. It's not like Batman Begins that is trying super duper hard to ground things in reality, they're comic books and reveling in their comic book-ness.

As for Barry trying to visit him? 1) Who says he hasn't? Each we get at least a 3 month break that happens in real time over the summer. I find it unrealistic to assume that central city is completely quiet with zero adventures every summer. There are just things that didn't make it to screen.

2) How would he find him? I'm not sure Barry would just run around looking for him like a groupie just for fun... there would have to be a reason.

Although I LOVE the idea that he's just walking past the daily planet and sees superman speed flying through a window changing to clark kent or something that nobody else would be able to perceive...

My point is that there are some things that they tell us can't have happened... and some things they've just not mentioned.

Like Cat naming Bizzaro... means there was no male Bizzaro before her. Nothing stated so far means there was NO superman/aliens/etc.

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Parallel realities and timelines are a theme of this season of Flash. A 'parallel worlds' crossover lets them do a crossover for a single episode (with potential to do it again in the future) without requiring cooperation across networks for world-building.

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Or, even more goofy, he could be that universe's flash and not cross over at all. Then through some goofy speedforce maneuver, he and supergirl actually cross over into Cw and it'll be yet another flash on flash.


legends of Tomorrow:
It looks like Rip Hunter confirmed the existence of both Superman and Batman in the Arrow-verse this week

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Or, at least, they will at some point in the future.

Scarab Sages

That was a really neat episode…

Spoiler:
I thought it was a really good re-telling of the classic Alan Moore story. They did a really good job with the look of the Black Mercy. I almost wish they had shown Non getting the plant from Mongul.

Loved the fight scene with big sis, J’onn, and Astra, although I do wish MM had put up a bit more of a fight. I gotta admit, I was not expecting the Kryptonite sword part. Brutal, but it needed to happen. I just wish they hadn’t pulled the tired “let’s not tell the hero the truth about who did the deed, because that never comes back to haunt you”. Too predictable.

The scenes with J’onn/Kara and Cat were hilarious, in an awkwardly painful way.

I really was expecting more from that battle between Kara and Non. When she came out of the Black Mercy, she looked super pissed. That anger really didn’t translate well into the fight. Hell, she was more pissed when fighting Red Tornado. The least she could have done was heat vision him in the face when she had him on the ground. That would’ve been cool.

My one big complaint remains the major plot flaw – if you’ve got Kryptonian renegades planning global human bye-bye, you’d think the Man-o-Steel would have stepped in by now.


See, I thought it was a pale imitation of the classic story. (Admittedly, I'm far more familiar with the JLU adaptation than the original comic, so that may color my viewpoint.)

Spoiler:
The Black Mercy effect was really well done, though.

The real-world parts didn't really add much. I found J'onn as Kara far less amusing than J'onn as Lord (though Melissa Benoist got the Hank Henshaw delivery perfect.) and the overall plot was far less compelling than Batman and Wonder Woman fighting for their lives against Mongul in the original story.

I also felt Astra's death and the cover-up were poorly conceived. WHy didn't J'onn just phase out of Astra's grip? He phased through her not 10 seconds before during the fight, so it's not like the writers forgot he had that power.

I did like the group scene in Kara's apartment at the end, though.


Kalshane wrote:
Why didn't J'onn just...do what he'd done not 10 seconds before?

Failed his Concentration check while being choked.


Aberzombie wrote:

That was a really neat episode…

** spoiler omitted **

Spoilery reply to a previous spoiler:
I thought it was well done, too. I kept waiting for Kara to fry the Black Mercy with heat vision once it was removed. As for the lack of Big Blue Schoolboy, even my wife wondered why Superman wasn't involved, and she's not nearly the comic nerd I am.

On a related note, I have to play proud father and brag that my 11-year-old daughter recognized "Black Mercy" from previous adaptations when my wife had never heard of it. ;)


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TarSpartan wrote:
As for the lack of Big Blue Schoolboy, even my wife wondered why Superman wasn't involved, and she's not nearly the comic nerd I am.

This series really should have made use of the old comic standby of Superman is off-world for an indeterminate period, that last just as long as this story (or series) lasts.

Scarab Sages

For me, this episode was....meh.

Spoiler:
This whole cat fight between Cat and Kara, with the new, annoying/spying/self-centered idiot assistant, got really annoying in record time.

The villain of the week was sort of lame. Although I did like the nice little touch of him putting Supergirl in a cage which simulated red sunlight. I think that’s the first time they used that in this series.

Jimmy channeling Superman’s attitude in his lecture to Kara was pretty cool.

The whole lie about Astra’s death has already gotten annoying as well. Here’s hoping they’ll quickly move on to the obligatory Kara finds out the truth and has a falling out with her adoptive sister before they eventually forgive each other.

And now I want to see Winn start to torment new assistant.

Next week’s episode could prove interesting. Fortress of Solitude and one of the previously established alternate versions of Brainiac. WOOT!

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I'm waiting for the Flash crossover episode.

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Hama wrote:
I'm waiting for the Flash crossover episode.

A couple episodes back when Flash and co were jumping to Earth-2 there was a brief image of Supergirl flying by.

How pissed would people be if that were the entire extent of the promised crossover?

Technically... they've already done the crossover. :]

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It is however, not.


@Aberzombie: Do you really want to see Winn torture the new assistant, given that the new assistant is (or will become)

Spoiler:
Silver Banshee?


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Did anyone else catch Supergirl's comment "I thought that masks were only big in that other city"? I think that is our first hint of other superheroes being active besides Superman and Supergirl, and their villain galleries.

Makes me wonder if Flash/Green Arrow/Supergirl are in fact on the same earth... Given that Barry is already back on Earth 1, it would make sense he wouldn't be jumping to another Earth.

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I caught that line, and wondered if it was a Gotham City/Batman reference.

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MMCJawa wrote:

Did anyone else catch Supergirl's comment "I thought that masks were only big in that other city"? I think that is our first hint of other superheroes being active besides Superman and Supergirl, and their villain galleries.

Makes me wonder if Flash/Green Arrow/Supergirl are in fact on the same earth... Given that Barry is already back on Earth 1, it would make sense he wouldn't be jumping to another Earth.

I missed that! I was too busy focusing on the exchange between Alex and Hank/J'onn that seemed to imply knowledge of Lobo.


Dire Elf wrote:


I missed that! I was too busy focusing on the exchange between Alex and Hank/J'onn that seemed to imply knowledge of Lobo.

Yeah. I can't think of any other DC inter-galactic bounty hunter (off the top of my head) that would create that sort of reaction.


Thank you, I am not the only one who thought of Lobo.

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Now I want Ron Perlman as Lobo - half Clay Morrow, half Hellboy, all awesome.

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Kalshane wrote:
Dire Elf wrote:


I missed that! I was too busy focusing on the exchange between Alex and Hank/J'onn that seemed to imply knowledge of Lobo.
Yeah. I can't think of any other DC inter-galactic bounty hunter (off the top of my head) that would create that sort of reaction.

Indeed! It was an awesome reference. So here's hoping they bring him in.

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Damon Griffin wrote:

@Aberzombie: Do you really want to see Winn torture the new assistant, given that the new assistant is (or will become)** spoiler omitted **

Ah, that I did not know. <Redacted>, is one of those Superman enemies I don't know much about. Makes sense they'd go in that direction.

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Ross Byers wrote:
Now I want Ron Perlman as Lobo - half Clay Morrow, half Hellboy, all awesome.

FOR THE WIN!!!!

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That was pretty cool….

Spoiler:
I kind of like how they did Indigo, even referencing her original name as Brainiac 8. The shout out to Colu was awesome!

It’ll be interesting to see what Non does with Indigo and how she fits in to Myriad.

The Fortress of Solitude was pretty well done. Loved the key. Loved the statues. Loved the robot.

Thank the gods that damnable “who killed Astra” crap is over and done.

Winn is getting himself some from Super Skank! Poor bastard.


Wow Winn got to do things that didn't involve mooning over Kara! Yay

Also man Indigo is a way more compelling villain than Nan. Nan so far for me is perhaps the most boring and lame of pretty much every CWverse villain shown so far. Hell most Villains of the Week are more interesting than him.


I agree, Nan is super lame.


The Fortress was chock full of Easter Eggs (Yay Legion Flight Ring). The only thing I didn't like was the Key.

While it was a nice reference to the old-school Superman...it weighs "100 Million Tons?!?!?" Someone needs to be smacked around for that.


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Ramarren wrote:

The Fortress was chock full of Easter Eggs (Yay Legion Flight Ring). The only thing I didn't like was the Key.

While it was a nice reference to the old-school Superman...it weighs "100 Million Tons?!?!?" Someone needs to be smacked around for that.

Agreed on the key weight; the stone/ice shelf it was sitting on would have collapsed under a tiny, tiny fraction of that weight. Not to mention Kara's had trouble trying to tow an oil tanker probably weighing something between 100-500 kilotons (so, perhaps as little as one one-thousandth the weight Olsen cited) but she can effortlessly lift the key?

We'll just have to assume Olsen was being hyperbolic, intentionally naming a ridiculous figure to make the point that only a handful of beings could manage it.


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OK, just WOW.

Spoiler:
Great acting, amazing script, just so much going down in one episode. I love the fact that all the characters are developing depth and finding new angles. And not just the leads: Max Lord finally began showing himself to be an actual human and not just a smug "I am always in control regardless of the situation" type a$%@$#le. Conflicted protagonists and antagonists, uncomfortable truths being revealed, and to top it all off J'onn J'onzz being the hero he always is. That was great!


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Yeah that was a pretty amazing episode. Nice to see Kara's actress stretch her range a bit: She does a pretty good job as a mean girl.


Ramarren wrote:

The Fortress was chock full of Easter Eggs (Yay Legion Flight Ring). The only thing I didn't like was the Key.

While it was a nice reference to the old-school Superman...it weighs "100 Million Tons?!?!?" Someone needs to be smacked around for that.

That was lifted from the animated "All-Star Superman" movie. Bonus on that was that it refereed to the original giant arrow key from the comics. Presumably Supes has some sort of plate underneath the ice that's supporting the key.

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...and the All-Star Superman animated film was based on a comic miniseries of the same name. Having a key that only Superman is strong enough to lift is an old trope.

There's enough wrong enough with comic books physics that I choose not to worry about things like the ice being strong enough. But I do point out that it only makes sense as a security system if only Kryptonians are strong enough to get in. But that's clearly not true - Black Adam and any number of other super-strong, flying supervillains can also use the key.

(And every other 'last survivor of Krypton' outside of the House of El and the city of Kandor seems pretty evil, so just making the Fortress an ark of Kryptonian lore and culture seems a bad plan anyway.)


Great episode, can't wait for the Flash crossover.

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