a blind pfs character


Advice

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Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If you really want this to work, you have to add more than "Heal, Buff, and be Blind".

Lantern Lodge

@chad gilbreath,

I think a blind character is a very interesting concept.
As it is a group game, you could ask yourself these questions first:

"Why would the fellow adventurers in your party want to adventure with a blind adventurer?"

From an in-character and role-play perspective:
1) Are they close relative or friends of your blind character and already have means to help with his condition?
2) Do they have some sort of relationship with your character that requires them to have you along? and vice versa? (Example, your the high priest of a religion and they are all members of the temple guard. Or you have hired them as bodyguards."
3) How would your party handle you blind condition?

And as for your fellow party players:
4) Are your fellow players receptive to having a blind character travelling with their characters?
5) How do you plan to convince them to accommodate a blind character if they are not receptive to the ideal?
6) In the event that the party or a fellow player or two are strongly against your character ideal, how do you plan to handle this rejection?

Asking all these would help make your character better.


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Secane wrote:

@chad gilbreath,

I think a blind character is a very interesting concept.
As it is a group game, you could ask yourself this questions first:

"Why would the fellow adventurers in your party want to adventure with a blind adventurer?"

They wouldn't.

Secane wrote:
1) Are they close relative or friends of your blind character and already have means to help with his condition?

No.

Secane wrote:
2) Do they have some sort of relationship with your character that requires them to have you along? and vice versa? (Example, your the high priest of a religion and they are all members of the temple guard. Or you have hired them as bodyguards."

No.

This is PFS. You can expect to be adventuring with a bunch of strangers who are looking for a competent professional ally.


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LazarX wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

It's kind of a shame. What if an actual blind person were interested in playing this character? People should be able to play with disabilities as they see fit.

Having spent a lot of time reading for a blind person, I suspect that most would be offended by the player trivialising the condition in such a manner.

Being blind doesn't turn you into Matt Murdock. It puts you in a place that would be far worse without the accessibility options invented by a far more modern society that what exists on Golarion. This player wants to trivialize the condition, and he wants to be a burden on his fellow players.

Here's the bald honest truth. Like it or not, sometimes character concepts have to give way to the limits of the campaign. Society can't support all kinds of character concepts, and this is one that has to be left behind.

LazarX is right, here.

I didn't really want to bring it up, but I probably should put it out there to give some context to why I've said what I have.

I have congenital bilateral glaucoma, which in layman's terms means I was born with glaucoma in both my eyes.

Thankfully I live on the outskirts of Philly and was born literally months after the world's premier expert on childhood glaucoma had just taken up residence in the Shea Eye Institute at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, so when my parents learned about my condition (which involved my eye rupturing below my cornea some months after my birth), we were able to go to him pretty much immediately and he was able to perform surgery.

I still have to wear glasses and am pretty badly nearsighted (the glasses part I don't even mind, honestly - they're just normal to me), but that's NOTHING compared to the possibility of me having two glass eyes (which, yes, was a VERY REAL and VERY LIKELY outcome of my condition - I effectively dodged an atom-bomb by inches due to a lot of serendipitous factors).

So, yeah, when I hear people wanting to play a blind or handicapped character, I kinda am split.

I've thought of playing a character like that myself, since I have some real insight into the whole matter (since I've become familiar learning about what it IS to be blind, since it was a possibility that I'd still end up blind for a long, long time, although by now I'm effectively in the clear until my twilight years like most people).

So, if someone wants to play a character who's blind, deaf, or somehow else handicapped, I probably wouldn't be too dismissive of it myself in my home games, especially since the whole Handicapped Badass is a common trope.

At the same time, I do find it a little... kind of insensitive, but more like uninformedly and unintentionally ignortant of the whole matter, when someone says "I just want a handicap because the penalty seems like an interesting character trait."

It's sort of trivializing the whole matter of a disability which is, honestly, one of the biggest handicaps you can have as a human.

Having gone to RIT, which is home to the National Technical Institute of the Deaf, I've had to work with deaf people quite a bit. And, while, in many, many ways being deaf is an extremely handicapping disability, in many ways it's not quite as bad as being blind.

Humans are primarily a visual species; for as much as other animals are touted as having better eyesight than humans, the hard fact is that humans actually have pretty phenomenal eyesight in the animal kingdom, ranking among the top animals in the world when all is said and done due to the sharpness & depth of our vision, our ability to sense movement, our color range, etc. - most animals have great sharpness and motion sense but not color, great color by not sharpness, yada-yada. We're effectively the ultimate Jack of All Trades when it comes to eyesight.

The effects of such can be seen everywhere: road signs, television & movies, printed works, the internet & computers in general using a visually-based interfaces, our dependence in general upon written forms of communication; the fact that deaf people can gain drivers' licenses while blind people cannot (for obvious reasons, and none that I disagree with); advertising and marketing in general is absolutely dependent upon visuals, while sound is only needed on a case-by-case basis, and almost always ISN'T needed except when moving images are concerned.

That's not saying that deaf individuals have it easy - not in the slightest, and being deaf carries with it it's own whole host of issues and required adjustments.

But humans' dependence on our eyesight isn't something you really realize until you consider just how much EVERYTHING in our lives is based upon the assumption that humans can see - from the colors and designs of packages, to the signs and symbols we use to navigate roads, to our complete dependence on written language as a means to communicate and record data.

---

Then, of course, there's the whole "I don't consider only seeing 30ft. ahead 'blind'".

Yeah, uh...

Try that sometime.

Honestly try imagining just how far 30ft. is, and then realize just how little a range of sight that actually is.

30ft. is a surprisingly small range - far too short to be able to drive a car or anything else like that.

"Darkvision is only 30ft." really doesn't take into account that this isn't JUST at night - this is ALL THE TIME.

Most humans can cover 30ft of movement at a moderate jog in about 1 to 2 seconds, to say nothing of a full-on-sprint.

Now consider that that's ALL the visual information you're getting, and for all you know there could be a cliff at about 45ft from you, meaning there isn't enough time to notice and stop before falling off that cliff and to your death, or at the very least skid to a halt and very potentially slip off, leaving yourself to dangle off a ledge where you have no idea just how deep it is.

If ALL you can see is 30ft in front of you, realistically, you can't move at more than a normal walking pace, because you have to give yourself enough time to react to what's in front of you - and god forbid something like a car (or carriage, in this case), comes roaring at you at 45 miles and hour or so; at that point, 30ft. is barely enough time to dodge, if it's enough time at all (which, honestly, it probably isn't).

It's better than seeing complete blackness, but don't for an instant think that it's somehow "not blind," because not only is it completely within the realm of "legally blind" it's also very much functionally blind, as well.

---

If you think you "want" the penalties because of "roleplaying" reasons, then I'd suggest trying to go a whole day without opening your eyes and seeing just how hard it actually is to navigate around, to say nothing of performing tasks you're unfamiliar with.

Oh, and, stay far FAR away from anything sharp.

I'm not even kidding here - I am dead serious: no sight + sharp objects is probably the worst combination of anything I can ever imagine.


if i were the DM, i would give a permanency of :
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/echolocation

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
666bender wrote:

if i were the DM, i would give a permanency of :

Echolocation.

Linked.

Remember, this is for PFS.
There is no houserules allowed, except for those explicitly noted for PFS.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

By the way, for those suggesting that the character cast blindness on herself at the start of each scenario and remove blindness at the end:

Blindness/deafness has a duration of Permanent(D). You can save the second spell. ^_^

Liberty's Edge

Kalindlara wrote:

By the way, for those suggesting that the character cast blindness on herself at the start of each scenario and remove blindness at the end:

Blindness/deafness has a duration of Permanent(D). You can save the second spell. ^_^

Yes while that is true in PFS if you end an adventure with a condition that has negative impact on your character it has to be reported as dead unless that said condition was cured by the time the senario is done.

Liberty's Edge

And chbgraphicarts I didn't mean to offend you. Like I said before I'm basing this character off of my friend who was born completely blind. Tho she is blind she is one of the most charismatic person I know and always helping everyone she meet. She true her best (and successd 9/10) to do thing the way everyone else does and not let her blindness hinder her at all. That's why I want to make a character like this so bad. To show that not every drawback has to be a hinderance. That's why I want the penalty for blindness. Its not cause of role play purposes.

Grand Lodge

chad gilbreath wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

By the way, for those suggesting that the character cast blindness on herself at the start of each scenario and remove blindness at the end:

Blindness/deafness has a duration of Permanent(D). You can save the second spell. ^_^

Yes while that is true in PFS if you end an adventure with a condition that has negative impact on your character it has to be reported as dead unless that said condition was cured by the time the senario is done.

The (D) stands for dismissable. It means you can end the spell anytime during its duration as a standard action.

Liberty's Edge

Arutema wrote:
chad gilbreath wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

By the way, for those suggesting that the character cast blindness on herself at the start of each scenario and remove blindness at the end:

Blindness/deafness has a duration of Permanent(D). You can save the second spell. ^_^

Yes while that is true in PFS if you end an adventure with a condition that has negative impact on your character it has to be reported as dead unless that said condition was cured by the time the senario is done.
The (D) stands for dismissable. It means you can end the spell anytime during its duration as a standard action.

Oh I see. Hmm okay


chad gilbreath wrote:

And chbgraphicarts I didn't mean to offend you. Like I said before I'm basing this character off of my friend who was born completely blind. Tho she is blind she is one of the most charismatic person I know and always helping everyone she meet. She true her best (and successd 9/10) to do thing the way everyone else does and not let her blindness hinder her at all. That's why I want to make a character like this so bad. To show that not every drawback has to be a hinderance. That's why I want the penalty for blindness. Its not cause of role play purposes.

You cannot make a character in a game that shows stuff like that about Real life. If sounds like your friend is awesome but you wont be.

I suggest you drop the idea since it will only make a mockery of your intention.
In a game where one character can be like a manager or somthing else it is great but in a game where the PCs are field agents like in PFS it is no good.


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Some limitations simply cannot be overcome. It may seem like the person with the disability can do everything a normal person can do, but they cannot. One of the first things a person with a disability learns is their limitations. It may seem like the person is able to overcome everything, but they are not. There are some things you are not capable of doing. Having a disability means that some things are forever beyond your reach no matter how much you want them. You become very good at hiding the fact you wish you could overcome these things and play down the limitation so it does not seem as bad. Take my word for it having a disability is not something that is easy.

I understand that you the reason you want to play this concept is because someone you know has seemingly overcome being blind. As much as you mean this to be a positive thing it can easily be taken the wrong way. This could not only anger people at the table, but if word gets back to your friend it could really offend her. Think how you would feel describing this character to her. Do you think she would think the idea is cool? Is this concept something that is worth risking her friendship over? And for god sake don’t actually describe this character to her.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I don't think your friend will have the reaction you want.

I am an epileptic, and if someone made a PFS PC with Epilepsy, to "show how cool they are", I would probably just roll my eyes.

The format, and the system, doesn't support your concept.

Especially, because it is in a world where the blind can be healed to see.

So, now, you have to create, a very convoluted reason, why the PC, would not want to be cured.

You may have good intentions, but there really isn't anything positive to be gained.


chad gilbreath wrote:
Nope cause I don't see that as true blindness. Its not even a drawback really. 30' of sight that is darkvision? In a fight that's all the sight you would need

Well, unless you are fighting archers, crossbowmen, gunslingers, spellcasters.....


The problem is that many magical effects need vision. You can not, for example, use selective channel to exclude the bad guys from healing done unless you see them.
And you can't make 5ft steps while blind because everything is difficult terrain.

Using scent to tell friend from foe needs a move action, as you can't take 5ft steps you'd need to be adjacent to an injured friend to heal him.
Buffing is easier in some cases because there are spells that only target allies or differentiates between fiend and foe. Bless, prayer for example.

So you have a pc that gets massive penalties to even the simplest things, can always only walk at half speed (or slower depending on armor), can not do a lot. Do you really think such a pc would be a lot of fun for you to play and for others to have to carry?

Quote:


That's like putting a kid down just cause he can't hear anymore.

Being deaf would be much less of a problem for an adventurer than being blind. And no one is talking about your PC being put down, just about being reported dead for the society. See it as permanently unfit for duty.

Liberty's Edge

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Some limitations simply cannot be overcome. It may seem like the person with the disability can do everything a normal person can do, but they cannot. One of the first things a person with a disability learns is their limitations. It may seem like the person is able to overcome everything, but they are not. There are some things you are not capable of doing. Having a disability means that some things are forever beyond your reach no matter how much you want them. You become very good at hiding the fact you wish you could overcome these things and play down the limitation so it does not seem as bad. Take my word for it having a disability is not something that is easy.

I understand that you the reason you want to play this concept is because someone you know has seemingly overcome being blind. As much as you mean this to be a positive thing it can easily be taken the wrong way. This could not only anger people at the table, but if word gets back to your friend it could really offend her. Think how you would feel describing this character to her. Do you think she would think the idea is cool? Is this concept something that is worth risking her friendship over? And for god sake don’t actually describe this character to her.

I was explaining the game to her and ask if it was possible to have a blind character. This whole idea was hers to start with just when I made it i based it off of her and she knows that. I would never do something that would jeopardize a good friendship

Liberty's Edge

Just a Guess wrote:

The problem is that many magical effects need vision. You can not, for example, use selective channel to exclude the bad guys from healing done unless you see them.

And you can't make 5ft steps while blind because everything is difficult terrain.

Using scent to tell friend from foe needs a move action, as you can't take 5ft steps you'd need to be adjacent to an injured friend to heal him.
Buffing is easier in some cases because there are spells that only target allies or differentiates between fiend and foe. Bless, prayer for example.

So you have a pc that gets massive penalties to even the simplest things, can always only walk at half speed (or slower depending on armor), can not do a lot. Do you really think such a pc would be a lot of fun for you to play and for others to have to carry?

I had read through the penalty of blindness and nowhere does it says that movement is considered difficult terrain. And by using blind fight allows me to move my full speed. As for spell that involve single opponent I can use my spirit animal to deliver touch spell if need be. And also i chosen a spirit animal that gain the supernatural ability to speak on language so it can help me as a guide. And with the scent ability if my party is okay with it i could spray a perfume on them so I then could distinguish the different between friend and foe.


If you make this character, dont be suprised if others ask you not to play it, with them.


chad gilbreath wrote:
Just a Guess wrote:

The problem is that many magical effects need vision. You can not, for example, use selective channel to exclude the bad guys from healing done unless you see them.

And you can't make 5ft steps while blind because everything is difficult terrain.

Using scent to tell friend from foe needs a move action, as you can't take 5ft steps you'd need to be adjacent to an injured friend to heal him.
Buffing is easier in some cases because there are spells that only target allies or differentiates between fiend and foe. Bless, prayer for example.

So you have a pc that gets massive penalties to even the simplest things, can always only walk at half speed (or slower depending on armor), can not do a lot. Do you really think such a pc would be a lot of fun for you to play and for others to have to carry?

I had read through the penalty of blindness and nowhere does it says that movement is considered difficult terrain. And by using blind fight allows me to move my full speed. As for spell that involve single opponent I can use my spirit animal to deliver touch spell if need be. And also i chosen a spirit animal that gain the supernatural ability to speak on language so it can help me as a guide. And with the scent ability if my party is okay with it i could spray a perfume on them so I then could distinguish the different between friend and foe.

I think the idea of difficult terrain comes from the rule about needing acrobatics chek to move more than half speed.


Take 5-Foot step wrote:
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness.

Not sure whether blind fight negates this.

Scent wrote:
The creature detects another creature's presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If the creature moves within 5 feet (1 square) of the scent's source, the creature can pinpoint the area that the source occupies, even if it cannot be seen.

Even if your friends use perfume you still need a move action to find them unless they are within 5ft of you.


Just a Guess wrote:
Take 5-Foot step wrote:
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness.

Not sure whether blind fight negates this...

I dont think it does but blindness and darkness is not completely the same in the game. at least i havent been able to find the restriktion on blindness

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, if your friend wants to have a blind PC, why does it need penalties?

A magical Blind person that "sees" in a magical fashion.

The absolute focus on the penalties makes no sense.

A magical healer, that will not heal themselves, even if it hinders their ability to heal others?

Liberty's Edge

The acrobatic check is not to fall prone for moving full speed while blinded. You can get rid of that via blind fight.

Quote:

Blind-Fight: in melee, everytime you miss because of concealment (see Combat), you can reroll one tone to see if you actually hit.

An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hittining you in melee. That is, you don't lose your dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn't get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker's bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however.
you do not need to make Acrobatics skill checks to speed at full speed when blinded.

Liberty's Edge

Just a Guess wrote:
Take 5-Foot step wrote:
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness.

Not sure whether blind fight negates this.

Scent wrote:
The creature detects another creature's presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If the creature moves within 5 feet (1 square) of the scent's source, the creature can pinpoint the area that the source occupies, even if it cannot be seen.
Even if your friends use perfume you still need a move action to find them unless they are within 5ft of you.

The thing about the perfume isn't about finding them it mainly to make sure I know when a friend is nearby and not an unknown.

Liberty's Edge

Cap. Darling wrote:
Just a Guess wrote:
Take 5-Foot step wrote:
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness.

Not sure whether blind fight negates this...

I dont think it does but blindness and darkness is not completely the same in the game. at least i havent been able to find the restriktion on blindness

I recently got the game rule reference flash card and it spoke of darkness and blindness as basically the same thing. It also said create in darkness that you can't see are treated as being invisible so again blind-fight will help me get rid of some of the penalty against me

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You are still using abilities, to negate some of the penalties.

If penalties are important, then you cannot negate, or lessen them.

Your friend doesn't have Scent, or Tremorsense, or Blindsense.

Do you see what I am going at?

It's not an attack, it's an explanation, that you cannot mirror your friend, in every way, and still be a Pathfinder PC.

I live with, and have many friends, with disabilities.

None of us use magic, and none of us would last as a member of the Pathfinder Society.


chad gilbreath wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:
Just a Guess wrote:
Take 5-Foot step wrote:
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness.

Not sure whether blind fight negates this...

I dont think it does but blindness and darkness is not completely the same in the game. at least i havent been able to find the restriktion on blindness
I recently got the game rule reference flash card and it spoke of darkness and blindness as basically the same thing. It also said create in darkness that you can't see are treated as being invisible so again blind-fight will help me get rid of some of the penalty against me

If darkness and blindness works the same then you dont get 5 foot steps as a blind person then. But generally the cards are properly not a good supstitude for the CRB.

Liberty's Edge

I understand my friend doesn't have anything like that cause we dont live in a world of magic. This build is like if she did live in a world like pathfinder. I was going to play as this character and write down what happens then go and read back through the adventures that cause her to level up. This build means a lot more than I was willing to give off in the beginning of this thread.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If she lived in the world of Pathfinder, as a member of the Pathfinder Society, why would she not have, or seek, something to negate penalties?

Liberty's Edge

That fine I can live without a 5' shift (hopefully lol)

Liberty's Edge

Troll you would have to met my friend to fully understand her.


You can try it and if it sucks as hard as week all seem to think, you can retrain to a spirit guide oracle before level 2 and get the milky eye curse.


Sorry if i Sound like a dick. But i think you should consider asking your friend on a date instead of pretending to be her in fantasy land.

Liberty's Edge

Rather not do that seeing how I see her as a little sister and nothing eles


chad gilbreath wrote:
Rather not do that seeing how I see her as a little sister and nothing eles

Suit your self. For me a little sister is someone you want to punch, but you dont want others to punch;)


Cap. Darling wrote:
chad gilbreath wrote:
Rather not do that seeing how I see her as a little sister and nothing eles
For me a little sister is someone you want to punch, but you dont want others to punch;)

I have a big sister but it was the same.

But I was a thug when I was little. When some guy would bother her she'd call me and I'd put them in their place... the floor.

Liberty's Edge

Okay say we take out the society part of pathfinder and ran it in an AP or a homemade pathfinder senario wood that make it less bad

Liberty's Edge

Just a Guess wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:
chad gilbreath wrote:
Rather not do that seeing how I see her as a little sister and nothing eles
For me a little sister is someone you want to punch, but you dont want others to punch;)

I have a big sister but it was the same.

But I was a thug when I was little. When some guy would bother her she'd call me and I'd put them in their place... the floor.

I'm a gentle fat person until someone screw with one of my friends then I go into my rage for 4 rounds and knock people out


chad gilbreath wrote:
Okay say we take out the society part of pathfinder and ran it in an AP or a homemade pathfinder senario wood that make it less bad

yes then it can be great as long as the rest of the group is in on it.

Liberty's Edge

Friend going to be running a homemade one for the free rpg day and its a 4-6 and want me to bring her in as lvl 6... Sadly I only have her built up to level three..

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

That, really sounds like an easy slip into being a parody of your friend.

Even if you try hard not to.

Liberty's Edge

blackbloodtroll wrote:

That, really sounds like an easy slip into being a parody of your friend.

Even if you try hard not to.

What do you mean?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I mean, if you try too hard, to have this PC replicate your friend, it could quickly become a parody.

Now, I could do this with one of my friends, and if it did slip into being a parody, it would be all in good fun. We are guys, and we poke fun at each other all the time.

This might not be the same reaction you get, if it ends up this way.

Liberty's Edge

Once again troll you must know my friend to understand the way she thinks. She is a device of her own design ( :/have a feeling that's the wrong saying)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I, um, think that you see her a little bit more than a "little sister".

I won't press that farther. It is a bit too personal.

Now, moving on...

Why couldn't this be a fantastical version of your friend?

You know, being a fantasy setting, and all.

Liberty's Edge

What do you mean fantastical version

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

As in, through supernatural/magical means, the penalties for blindness, are negated.

Not real world blindness, but fantasy world blindness.

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