Pricing Changes


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I just noticed some pricing changes are going to happen starting in June to the following lines: Campaign Setting (moving from $19.99 to $22.99), Player Companion (moving from $12.99 to $14.99), Maps (moving from $13.99 to $14.99). There may be other lines affected (Tales will see a price increase too, but we already know the books themselves will evolve).

Back in November 2012, we got a nice blog post summarizing changes to branding, pricing, and how some products were evolving. Will we get the same kind of blog post this year?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Yep. We'll also be sending something to subscribers before the changes kick in so they won't be caught off-guard. (By the way, in the Campaign Setting line, the map folio prices will be staying the same.)


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Vic,

While we've got you here, I wanted to ask about the map folios. What's the rationale for putting them with the Campaign Setting line rather than the Maps line? Sure the maps are for battlemaps, but the Campaign Setting is also for info about the campaign.

Any chance that we could move to a Campaign Setting line where the map folios aren't part of the subscription? What about moving to something where the map folios aren't a part of the subscription, but if you are a subscriber to [pick most related product line here] you get the free PDF?

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gladior wrote:

Vic,

While we've got you here, I wanted to ask about the map folios. What's the rationale for putting them with the Campaign Setting line rather than the Maps line? Sure the maps are for battlemaps, but the Campaign Setting is also for info about the campaign.

Any chance that we could move to a Campaign Setting line where the map folios aren't part of the subscription? What about moving to something where the map folios aren't a part of the subscription, but if you are a subscriber to [pick most related product line here] you get the free PDF?

Map Folios directly support the APs and the Campaign Setting. For example, a regional map contains proper names of places detailed in the Setting. Flipmaps and map packs are often much more generic.

Map Folios are usually things like regional maps, city maps, etc. that don't have set scales and aren't made for use with miniatures or tactical combat. Flipmaps and map packs detail things that fit on a 1" grid for use with miniatures.

-Skeld

Sovereign Court

Inflation! *shakes fist at the sky*

I swear by the power of Greyskull: I will bring us back to the gold standard and destroy you!

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just want to say here: you guys are raising your prices!

But your products are so worth it. You won't lose this subscriber.

Bring on the pain!


dmchucky69 wrote:

Just want to say here: you guys are raising your prices!

But your products are so worth it. You won't lose this subscriber.

Bring on the pain!

Indeed. I can say that I appreciate the email heads up. It is exceedingly rare that anyone takes the time to let you know that prices are going up, that there are changes in the works and so on. It is the little touches that make Paizo one of the best companies I deal with.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo are indeed the envy of companies, they have people thanking them for increasing their prices ;)

(This is a tongue in cheek comment - the quality of the products I get from Paizo makes me fine with the price adjustment to reflect increased costs).


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I would very much like to know why this change is happening. I look forward to seeing that blog post.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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Ravingdork wrote:
I would very much like to know why this change is happening. I look forward to seeing that blog post.

Is inflation really that much of a mystery?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ross Byers wrote:
Is inflation really that much of a mystery?

Hardcover books are seeing a 12% increase, Player Companions and Campaign Settings are seeing a 15% increase. Even spread over two and a half years, that's not inflation.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Given that they print in China, it may be the result of economic effects over there. It could be material prices, higher wages, or who-knows-what else. Maybe this blog post will fill us in. :)

Dark Archive

A (rough) breakdown of the percentage increases:

Player's Companion line 12.99 to 14.99 (+15%)
Campaign Setting 19.99 to 22.99 (+15%)
Roleplaying Game 39.99 to 44.99 (+12%)
Adventure Paths 22.99 to 24.99 (+8%)
Flip Mats/Map Packs 13.99 to 14.99 (+7%)
Pawns 19.99 to 24.99 (+25%)


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Fayries wrote:
Hardcover books are seeing a 12% increase, Player Companions and Campaign Settings are seeing a 15% increase. Even spread over two and a half years, that's not inflation.

You can say that, but you'd be wrong. Inflation is a process. What you've linked to is an average of the results of that process over a large number of product types. For instance, energy costs such as electricity where I live have almost doubled in the last five years. Nearly 100% inflation. On the other hand, the price of computer data storage has dropped significantly (as it usually does).

The price of printing materials up 15% in the last few years? Believable.

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

It's also worth mentioning that Paizo has done a lot of hiring lately. I'm sure they're expecting that to pay off in an expansion of offerings on the back end, but they still have to be able to pay for it on the front end.

Personally, I prefer for my increases to be larger and less frequent -- exactly the way Paizo is doing them. Makes it easier to plan.

I may have to cut out one of my subscriptions, and I might not -- I'll have to see what things look like as they get closer.


Ravingdork wrote:
I would very much like to know why this change is happening. I look forward to seeing that blog post.

Vic needs a new pair of shoes...

;)

Liberty's Edge

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Starfinder Superscriber

I'm sad about the price increase from the purely selfish (or whatever a non-perjorative word that has the same meaning would be) point of view: it means I'm going to be paying more for the same stuff.

But, on the other hand, I'm not mad. I get that prices increase. I suspect that the increase is more than inflation, but I also suspect that the rate at which Paizo has been putting out supplements really was pushing it for the number of people they had working on them. They have made some hires recently; I don't know if that actually represents an expansion in their staff, or if they're all replacements, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some mild expansion. Honestly, I'd rather see a 10-20% price increase on what they have than them starting to put more things out (*). I don't want to sound mean, but folks have pointed out some editing and development issues (the "Advanced Class Guide" being one of the places that had a lot of mess), and hopefully if they can get more people working on the same stuff, they'll be able to handle it better. (Of course, throwing more people at a problem doesn't always help, and can sometimes make things worse, but hopefully this is not one of those cases.) The other reason I don't want to see them put more things out (*) is because I suspect the market is close to saturated. A campaign setting, players' companion, map, and adventure path every single month is a *lot* of stuff, and I suspect if stuff came out faster, they'd just be cannibalizing their own sales rather than having much more in the way of total sales.

(*) OK, I will admit, I'd love it if they put out 3 PFS scenarios a month rather than 2. That's the one place I might like to see more come out. On the other hand, PFS scenarios have a very low price for what is probably the cost of actually getting them put together, and I suspect they're a loss leader.

Sovereign Court

rknop wrote:
(*) OK, I will admit, I'd love it if they put out 3 PFS scenarios a month rather than 2. That's the one place I might like to see more come out. On the other hand, PFS scenarios have a very low price for what is probably the cost of actually getting them put together, and I suspect they're a loss leader.

I'd guess that they make money - but if they put out too many they would start to cannibalize their own sales.


Anguish wrote:
Fayries wrote:
Hardcover books are seeing a 12% increase, Player Companions and Campaign Settings are seeing a 15% increase. Even spread over two and a half years, that's not inflation.

You can say that, but you'd be wrong. Inflation is a process. What you've linked to is an average of the results of that process over a large number of product types. For instance, energy costs such as electricity where I live have almost doubled in the last five years. Nearly 100% inflation. On the other hand, the price of computer data storage has dropped significantly (as it usually does).

The price of printing materials up 15% in the last few years? Believable.

My guess would be labor more than printing - especially in Washington State.

Community & Digital Content Director

To avoid any confusion about what we (Paizo) have said on our price changes, I'm including the message we sent to subscribers yesterday about the change below.

Quote:

Because you are a current subscriber, we wanted to let you know about some upcoming price changes to one (or more) of the product lines you are currently subscribed to.

We do our best to avoid price increases, but due to rising production costs we are making changes to some of our product lines. We also want to ensure that these products continue to release with the same high standard of quality that you expect from Paizo, and hope that you'll find these changes to be well worth the investment.

The pricing changes are detailed below:

Starting in June with Monster Summoner's Handbook, the Pathfinder Player Companion line will be changing from $12.99 to $14.99.

Also in June, the Pathfinder Campaign Setting soft cover books, starting with Inner Sea Monster Codex, will be changing from $19.99 to $22.99 (the Map Folio products in this line will remain at $19.99). Additionally, the Inner Sea Races hardcover, set to release in September, has changed from $39.99 to $44.99.

The July Pathfinder Roleplaying Game hardcover release, Occult Adventures, has been changed from $39.99 to $44.99. PDF copies of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game hardcovers will remain at $9.99.

In August, the next Pathfinder Adventure Path, Hell's Rebels, begins with Pathfinder Adventure Path #97: In Hell's Bright Shadow. Starting with this volume, Pathfinder Adventure Path volumes will be changing from $22.99 to $24.99.

Also in August, the Pathfinder Flip-Mats and Pathfinder Map Packs will be changing from $13.99 to $14.99.

The September Pathfinder Pawns set, Giantslayer Pawn Collection has changed from $19.99 to $24.99. Following Pathfinder Pawns collections will be priced at $24.99.

Thank you for your continued support as a subscriber! If you have any questions regarding your subscription(s) please let our Customer Service team know at customer.service@paizo.com.


Ross Byers wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I would very much like to know why this change is happening. I look forward to seeing that blog post.
Is inflation really that much of a mystery?

The answer to that is: Yes (and I'm an accountant).

There are, actually, many reasons for inflation. "Inflation" itself is not an answer - what specifically is behind the inflation, for Paizo, is an answer.

(Your response was strange... and a little thoughtless.)


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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

On inflation: most people today, including most economists, consider "inflation" to be a sustained increase in the general price level of goods. But that definition obscures something that the original definition — that inflation is an increase in the money supply — does not. That is that when someone increases the money supply, as by printing more bills, the value of each bill drops, and that is what causes price increases. So the problem is not really rising cost of production, that's just an effect of the real problem, which is the printing of more bills than the economy needs. Keynesian thinking, and Keynes was wrong.

BTW, in terms of 1913 dollars, the current dollar is worth about a nickel.

Sovereign Court

Ed Reppert wrote:
So the problem is not really rising cost of production, that's just an effect of the real problem, which is the printing of more bills than the economy needs. Keynesian thinking, and Keynes was wrong.

I'm with you - hence my reference to the gold standard - which is part what kept away long-term inflation back in the day. (While we didn't technically go off of the gold standard until decades later - from a practical perspective we did so under FDR.)

In addition - many economists think that a bit of inflation is a good thing, as they believe that - psychologically - people are more willing to accept the same pay which is worth less then they are actually less pay if the company they work for is running into trouble. (and therefore won't get as grumpy about what amounts to a pay decrease)

Like much of such economics - it's based upon the assumption that most people are idiots.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

My understanding of why inflation is argued to be a good thing is that it encourages investment because in order for your money to retain the same value, you have to let it breathe a little. Otherwise it's possible simple hoarding would become attractive, effectively decreasing the amount of money available for trading.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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Arnwyn wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I would very much like to know why this change is happening. I look forward to seeing that blog post.
Is inflation really that much of a mystery?

The answer to that is: Yes (and I'm an accountant).

There are, actually, many reasons for inflation. "Inflation" itself is not an answer - what specifically is behind the inflation, for Paizo, is an answer.

(Your response was strange... and a little thoughtless.)

Do you really think Paizo is going to give a more elaborate answer than 'our costs are rising'? They're not going to go into detail about which costs, precisely, have risen and by how much, exactly.

It could be the cost of printing has gone up.
It could be the cost of trans-Pacific shipping has gone up.
It could be the Dollar/Yuan exchange rate has fluctuated to effectively increase either of those.
It could be the design, developement, and editorial staff all got raises this year as rewards for performance or to offset all the tiny bits of inflation they encounter in day to day life. (For instance, Seattle rents and real estate costs keep rising.)
They could have increased the rates they pay freelancers and/or artists.
The rent on their office and warehouse may have increased.
They may have added staff that needs to be paid for somehow. (Or the overhead, like needing more office space for those staff.)

Or it may be some combination of these. Or something I couldn't/didn't think of in three minutes of brainstorming.

There are absolutely many reasons for inflation. My point is, does it really matter which one(s)?

Sovereign Court

Berinor wrote:
My understanding of why inflation is argued to be a good thing is that it encourages investment because in order for your money to retain the same value, you have to let it breathe a little. Otherwise it's possible simple hoarding would become attractive, effectively decreasing the amount of money available for trading.

And that's bad?

Hoarding $ causes deflation - effectively making everyone else marginally richer. (That's one reason why the US likes it that we're the go-to currency for the world. Countries/banks around the world have dollars stockpiled - effectively giving the US 0% interest loans.)

Besides - while you wouldn't actually lose equity - you'd still have the opportunity cost of not investing. There'd still be no reason not to get a US Treasury Bond/CD or some other 0 risk investment. The reason some people hoarded back in the 19th century was that bank accounts weren't guarenteed by anyone but the bank.

Dark Archive

Are you kidding me?

No way the price increase across ALL titles is gonna stand!

You publish too much in too short time (because of the dock strikes?)
AND the Adventure Paths AND Campaign settings AND the Pawns AND the Hardcovers AND the Player Compagnions increase in price?

No sir!

I bought EVERY Pathfinder product so far even as i noticed Paizo putting out more and more every month.

But the price increase together with increased product schedule is very hard.

The consequence for me is:
-no more modules
-no more player companions
-no more pawns
-no more map packs
-no more Pathfinder Battles Gargantuan minis

I will continue to buy:
-all Adventure Paths
-all Pathfinder Battles standard booster series
-some Hardcovers
-some Campaign Settings
-some Map Folios
-some Tales
-some Flip-Mats


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Meh. Product prices have increased before, and will again. Ross listed a number of good reasons for it. I needed to lose weight, anyway. :)

I am curious as to why the Pawns needed an increase so much higher than the other lines, though.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Damon Griffin wrote:
I am curious as to why the Pawns needed an increase so much higher than the other lines, though.

Yeah, me too. I wonder if there's been a big drop off in subscribers, meaning lower volumes and higher printing costs per unit.

It's easy to overvalue ones own preferences, but I certainly found myself with way too many pawns (after enthusiastically greeting the first few sets, I ended up not even opening some), I wonder if that experience was widely held - they filled a niche, but there's not a need for lots and lots of them(?)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As an RP-line subscriber who pays for international shipping, I have to say... Oh, well.

I pay a premium (shipping costs) for what I consider to be the benefits of getting the subscriber PDF, as well as not having to actually order the books when they come out, and a marginal increase in price (it's really not that much spread over 3 years, unless there was a price hike 2012 that I just didn't notice) is absolutely no skin off my nose.

Keep up the good work, Paizo!


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Marco Massoudi wrote:

Are you kidding me?

No way the price increase across ALL titles is gonna stand!

You can't really judge the reasonableness of a price rise without also looking at the frequency. It's been a few years since the last revision (which was marginal).

I'm not trying to persuade you to change your mind (there'll nearly always be a drop in demand when you increase the price of anything).

I don't think it's right to consider the magnitude without also looking at how often prices are changed. With the exception of the pawns, these increases represent a pretty negligible increase over the last...three? four?...years.

Dark Archive

Steve Geddes wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:

Are you kidding me?

No way the price increase across ALL titles is gonna stand!

You can't really judge the reasonableness of a price rise without also looking at the frequency. It's been a few years since the last revision (which was marginal).

I'm not trying to persuade you to change your mind (there'll nearly always be a drop in demand when you increase the price of anything).

I don't think it's right to consider the magnitude without also looking at how often prices are changed. With the exception of the pawns, these increases represent a pretty negligible increase over the last...three? four?...years.

In march 2013 the Adventure Path´s increased from 19.99 to 22.99.

In august 2015 they will increase to 24.99.
I will still buy them because i think the price is ok for 100 pages of mostly great art and story.

The new Pathfinder modules already cost 24.99 for 64 pages and are mostly not worth it (except the Dragon´s Demand).

Up until now i bought EVERY Pathfinder product because i am a fan but i find the price increase across the line very impudent and think that Pathfinder sells enough units of most product to compensate cost increases.

I stopped buying Marvel comics for the same reason (22 pages for 2.99 was ok - 20 pages for 3.99 was not).

The point is i enjoyed supporting Paizo no matter if some products were mediocre (most were great) but i can´t and won´t do that anymore.

And i´m not willing to pay 14.99 for a 32 page Player Companion.

I understand that the costs in some product lines are different or higher than in others but i need to watch what value i can get for my money.

And an increase in price in ALL product lines is just money making no matter what Paizo says.

For example: the pawn production costs did NOT increase $5 - i can guarantee that.

It will be interesting to see if OTHER companies follow or not
(with the comics example again - DC did, Image did not).

I´m just sad.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Sure, I'm not trying to talk you out of your choice - you should definitely vote with your wallet in cases where the price is more than you think the product is worth.

I was merely pointing out that magnitude isn't much of a guide without frequency, however you've obviously factored that in as well (I thought it was longer ago than two years).

On comment I'd make though:

Quote:
For example: the pawn production costs did NOT increase $5 - i can guarantee that.

You really can't make that guarantee. As I alluded to above, print costs are tied to volume, so even if the printer hasn't increased their prices at all - the production costs could easily rise if the number printed each set drops far enough.

I don't know any of the details, of course. Nonetheless, it's easy to forget that there are many moving parts in these kinds of decisions.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ross Byers wrote:
There are absolutely many reasons for inflation. My point is, does it really matter which one(s)?

In fact, I'm pretty sure some people in the US would welcome a price increase if that meant all the books were printed in the US.

(I'm located in Europe, so I couldn't care less. Plus I'm disappointed by the quality of the covers of recent Campaign Settings books that have been printed in the USA.)

Steve Geddes wrote:
I don't think it's right to consider the magnitude without also looking at how often prices are changed. With the exception of the pawns, these increases represent a pretty negligible increase over the last...three? four?...years.

In fact, if you go back to the start of the lines 5 or 6 years ago:

• Player Companions went from $9.99 to $14.99 (50% increase),
• Campaign Settings went from $17.99 to $22.99 (28% increase),
• Adventure Paths went from $19.99 to $24.99 (25% increase),
• Flip-Mats went from $12.99 to $14.99 (15% increase),
• Map Packs went from $9.95 to $14.99 (50% increase).

(I didn't include Modules because the books changed considerably along the way.)

Of course these things happen and nobody is required to buy all the stuff Paizo produces.

As the original poster, I was just curious to know if the pricing changes would allow some product improvements. For example, Flip-Mats got nice wrap-arounds along the way, and Map Packs got a box and write-erasable lamination. Maybe plastic slots will be included with the Adventure Paths pawns, or they'll get a new sheet of monsters? Maybe the Adventure Paths will get a paper battle map, just like the Modules do? Though I suppose we'd have been told already.


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Chris Lambertz wrote:

To avoid any confusion about what we (Paizo) have said on our price changes, I'm including the message we sent to subscribers yesterday about the change below.

Quote:

Because you are a current subscriber, we wanted to let you know about some upcoming price changes to one (or more) of the product lines you are currently subscribed to.

We do our best to avoid price increases, but due to rising production costs we are making changes to some of our product lines. We also want to ensure that these products continue to release with the same high standard of quality that you expect from Paizo, and hope that you'll find these changes to be well worth the investment.

The pricing changes are detailed below:

Starting in June with Monster Summoner's Handbook, the Pathfinder Player Companion line will be changing from $12.99 to $14.99.

Also in June, the Pathfinder Campaign Setting soft cover books, starting with Inner Sea Monster Codex, will be changing from $19.99 to $22.99 (the Map Folio products in this line will remain at $19.99). Additionally, the Inner Sea Races hardcover, set to release in September, has changed from $39.99 to $44.99.

The July Pathfinder Roleplaying Game hardcover release, Occult Adventures, has been changed from $39.99 to $44.99. PDF copies of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game hardcovers will remain at $9.99.

In August, the next Pathfinder Adventure Path, Hell's Rebels, begins with Pathfinder Adventure Path #97: In Hell's Bright Shadow. Starting with this volume, Pathfinder Adventure Path volumes will be changing from $22.99 to $24.99.

Also in August, the Pathfinder Flip-Mats and Pathfinder Map Packs will be changing from $13.99 to $14.99.

The September Pathfinder Pawns set, Giantslayer Pawn Collection has changed from $19.99 to $24.99. Following Pathfinder Pawns collections will be priced at $24.99.

Thank you for your continued support as a subscriber! If you have any questions regarding your subscription(s) please let our Customer Service team know at

...

So. Rising production costs. Which could be anything, anywhere, anytime along the path from salaries to brainstorming to marketing to physical and digital creation to packaging to distribution. As well as all the usual external financial participles which change from moment to moment.

I had hoped for more details, and expected about this much. Only because I'm by nature curious - it's really none of my business, its Paizo's. I don't buy that many Paizo products - I have 1 AP (IRON GODS!!!!) and many of the hardback ruleboooks, plus a bunch of Golem-sale softcover modules.

I'm not a subscriber, but if I were, I'd want to know more, but wouldn't feel entitled to know more. :)


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Even though the price increase is annoying to the consumer, I still marvel at how much Paizo packs into every product. We're not looking at large-type, large-whitespace, see-how-little-we-can-make-for-the-price type stuff.

Since the value is still there (at least, for me), I'll keep ordering. (Although the recent changes in the Tales line is a bit of a head-scratcher. Why would anyone subscribe now?)

Also, every time there's a price increase and people complain, I remember what Ryan Dancey posted long ago, that you don't worry when people complain about price, you worry when they stop buying.

So, vote with your wallet.

Shadow Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Chemlak wrote:

As an RP-line subscriber who pays for international shipping, I have to say... Oh, well.

I pay a premium (shipping costs) for what I consider to be the benefits of getting the subscriber PDF, as well as not having to actually order the books when they come out, and a marginal increase in price (it's really not that much spread over 3 years, unless there was a price hike 2012 that I just didn't notice) is absolutely no skin off my nose.

Keep up the good work, Paizo!

Same here. Im more concerned about rises in the cost of shipping from the U.S.or the exchange rate. Theyre the two big things that get me rethinking subs, so much more than a relatively small cost in product increase. At the moment I'll stick with My subscriptions as they are and see how it pans out under the new costs.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Anybody who thinks that these price hikes are horribadawfullybig obviously never was a regular customer of anything by Games Workshop ;-)


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I cancelled my pawns and role playing subs.

I think the AP is still a good value at the cost for the book and pdf. The other two aren't.

A PDF for the pawns line is something I thought I would use and honestly - I don't - not once. I can get the line cheaper from other sources - even buying from my FLGS is cheaper with local sales tax among the highest in the nation - because Paizo charges so much for shipping.

For the Role Playing line - I can get the book cheaper than the sub price through amazon and as a prime member I get free 2 day shipping. What this means is if I add the shipping cost Paizo charged me for my last book into the cost - I could have bought the book from Amazon and gotten the 9.99 PDF from here and paid almost 20% less than I was charged from Paizo.

That's not a value under any circumstances for me - I already considered all this into my subs - and I was 'ok' with paying a slightly bit more than I would pay any where else because I am supporting the company - but there is a tipping point and with the incredible prices of the shipping costs I can't keep it up. I think the value of being a subscriber needs a shot in the arm somewhere - and I'm sure there are things that could be added to make the extra cost worth it - but as it stands for these two lines I do not think the PDF add on is enough to justify the extra cost. That being said I'm not upset or outraged - price increases happen - I just wanted to take a moment and explain my decision to give Paizo a bit of marketing information. If they can push the perceived value of these two lines up it would make me re-evaluate.


Regarding the maps and pawns subscriptions - I switched buying those to amazon a long time ago. There was some discussion a while back that seemed to indicate that if you had these subscriptions, such things might port to the online Paizo game space at no additional cost. But since that project has been delayed for years now, I've probably saved hundreds due to the amazon discount and no shipping charges.

I also would like to have seen some more of an incentive for the subscriptions - especially for being a superscriber. But beyond a forum tag, there was never any special benefit. Not even a special "thank you." (Granted, it's been a while since I was a superscriber, so maybe there are benefits now, but there certainly weren't back when I was.)

Still, on a per product basis, I don't have any issues with the price increases. They make stuff I want to buy.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Steve Geddes wrote:


On comment I'd make though:
Quote:
For example: the pawn production costs did NOT increase $5 - i can guarantee that.

You really can't make that guarantee. As I alluded to above, print costs are tied to volume, so even if the printer hasn't increased their prices at all - the production costs could easily rise if the number printed each set drops far enough.

I don't know any of the details, of course. Nonetheless, it's easy to forget that there are many moving parts in these kinds of decisions.

Maybe not $5, but $1.25 is believable. And MSRP is usually twice wholesale, which is nearly twice what the distributor buys it for. So a $1.25 or so production cost increase can easily drive a $5 MSRP change.


No price increase on rulebook PDFs. Got it. What about other PDFs?

Dark Archive

Ross Byers wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


On comment I'd make though:
Quote:
For example: the pawn production costs did NOT increase $5 - i can guarantee that.

You really can't make that guarantee. As I alluded to above, print costs are tied to volume, so even if the printer hasn't increased their prices at all - the production costs could easily rise if the number printed each set drops far enough.

I don't know any of the details, of course. Nonetheless, it's easy to forget that there are many moving parts in these kinds of decisions.

Maybe not $5, but $1.25 is believable. And MSRP is usually twice wholesale, which is nearly twice what the distributor buys it for. So a $1.25 or so production cost increase can easily drive a $5 MSRP change.

When the first pawns came out in 2012 they were priced at 14.99 or 15.99 - i can´t remember which.

3 years later they cost 24.99.
I have asked a friend who is knowledgable in the chinese print costs and he said this increase is b@$&%!$!.

No one would mind a price increase of 10% or 15% but come on this is ridiculous!

I´ll stop buying these things and only use the plastic minis i have and continue to buy the Pathfinder Battles line - as long as it stays at it´s price niveau or increases it´s cost at a reasonable pace (like $1 from $14.99 when it came out to $15.99 nowadays).


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Who said it was printing costs? Certainly not Paizo.

Lemme see...

Design/development.
Art
Editing
Layout
Printing
Shipping (import to company)
Warehousing
Packing
Shipping (outgoing from company
Salaries
Site rental
Site maintenance
Security
IT (development, support, hardware, online presence)
Tax (import duty, export duty, corporation)

And that's just off the top of my head. Those are some (probably not all) of the "production costs" Paizo are saying have gone up overall. Which ones? Only Paizo know. See how little "printing" is in those production costs? I'm sure your friend who knows about Chinese printing costs believes what he's saying, but there's no way in hell that he knows all of those factors for Paizo.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Marco Massoudi wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


On comment I'd make though:
Quote:
For example: the pawn production costs did NOT increase $5 - i can guarantee that.

You really can't make that guarantee. As I alluded to above, print costs are tied to volume, so even if the printer hasn't increased their prices at all - the production costs could easily rise if the number printed each set drops far enough.

I don't know any of the details, of course. Nonetheless, it's easy to forget that there are many moving parts in these kinds of decisions.

Maybe not $5, but $1.25 is believable. And MSRP is usually twice wholesale, which is nearly twice what the distributor buys it for. So a $1.25 or so production cost increase can easily drive a $5 MSRP change.

When the first pawns came out in 2012 they were priced at 14.99 or 15.99 - i can´t remember which.

3 years later they cost 24.99.
I have asked a friend who is knowledgable in the chinese print costs and he said this increase is b+#!##$&.

No one would mind a price increase of 10% or 15% but come on this is ridiculous!

I´ll stop buying these things and only use the plastic minis i have and continue to buy the Pathfinder Battles line - as long as it stays at it´s price niveau or increases it´s cost at a reasonable pace (like $1 from $14.99 when it came out to $15.99 nowadays).

You realise that even with this price hike pawn packs are more economic than minis, right? :)

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

On pawns, it sounds like the price hike is on the AP collections. Do we know if there is any rise in the cost of the larger Pawn Boxes, which are currently in the $39.99 range?

If the price for the Boxes is staying the same, what that would indicate to me is that those sell very well (which is the impression I get locally) but that the more specialized AP paths can vary a lot more.

It might also mean that we'll get a few more sheets in the package. Probably not, but possible.

Grand Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Price increases. Meh. Have seen how much the price of chicken has gone up the past couple years.

-Skeld


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Marco Massoudi wrote:


For example: the pawn production costs did NOT increase $5 - i can guarantee that.

Yeah? How much will you pay us when you turn out to be wrong?

Dark Archive

I understand the reason for price increases but for the first time in the three plus years I have been a subscriber I find myself questioning the value of some of my subscriptions.

The Adventure Paths and RPG line are solid subscriptions. The campaign setting and companions lines I'm on the fence. 96 pages of content for $38 minus 15% is making me question it's value. Half the time the material is not relevant for me. I would prefer those lines were beefed up and redone. I would greatly prefer if they merged into a quarterly release. I can stomach a quarterly hardcover campaign setting book rather then 12 tiny supplements.

As my gaming focus has changed over the pass year and I've found myself enjoying the OSR D&D games I'm going to wait a month or two to see if subscribing is still worth it for me.

Just my two pennies.

Dark Archive

lastgrasp wrote:

I understand the reason for price increases but for the first time in the three plus years I have been a subscriber I find myself questioning the value of some of my subscriptions.

The Adventure Paths and RPG line are solid subscriptions. The campaign setting and companions lines I'm on the fence. 96 pages of content for $38 minus 15% is making me question it's value. Half the time the material is not relevant for me. I would prefer those lines were beefed up and redone. I would greatly prefer if they merged into a quarterly release. I can stomach a quarterly hardcover campaign setting book rather then 12 tiny supplements.

As my gaming focus has changed over the pass year and I've found myself enjoying the OSR D&D games I'm going to wait a month or two to see if subscribing is still worth it for me.

Just my two pennies.

For me it´s mostly the same.

The Adventure Paths and the Hardcovers are still worth it, as may be every second Campaign Setting (Andoran and Distant Shores are a must for me).

My biggest problem is with the Player Companion - 32 pages (some of which like page 1 or 32 are not even usable material) for $14.99 is just not worth it no matter how good.

Also for $9.99 i´ll take any Pathfinder Tale no matter if it´s great or if it´s bad - for $14.99 i won´t.

The Pawn Box sets are also ok even if i only use very few of them as i already have hunderts of actual plastic miniatures.
But if i have to choose between about 180 cardboard minis (most of which i already have in plastic and in the Bestiary Boxes) for 24.99 or 1,5 boosters of actual new plastic miniatures from the Pathfinder battles line for 23.98 i´ll take the latter.

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