Tripping Strike & Tandem Trip


Rules Questions


Hey there. I am running a Pathfinder campaign for the first time. It will be with 11th level characters, and two of the party members are focusing on trip attacks (Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Vicious Stomp).

They are looking at taking the Tandem Trip Teamwork Feat and one of them has Tripping Strike to be his main trigger.

Tripping Strike

Quote:

Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee attack, you can trip your opponent, in addition to the normal damage dealt by the attack. If your confirmation roll exceeds your opponent’s CMD, you may knock your opponent prone as if from the trip combat maneuver. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop your weapon to avoid being tripped.

Normal: You must perform a trip combat maneuver to trip an opponent.

I am fairly confused. It is mostly worded to say when you get a critical hit, the enemy could end up prone "as if" you used the trip maneuver. Thus, any bonuses you have like +2 to trip attempts would not factor in. Tandem Trip also would not activate using this interpretation.

However, it also states that the character could end up prone, if they roll 10 less than the target CMD. This implies that they are doing the full trip maneuver. This might imply that you should add trip bonuses to the confirmation roll.

Considering that a successful trip is going to provoke 3-5 attacks of opportunity in most cases, this will have a large impact on how effective the party is in combat. I am tempted to just say, yeah whatever you spent a bunch of feats go ahead and roll an extra die if you get a critical hit and take the highest for the trip attempt. Is that how you would rule it?

Any advice would be appreciated.


Reading the feat, I read it as saying when you critically threat, you then roll a confirmation. If you confirm the critical hit, and the confirmation roll would exceed the opponent's CMD, you may also trip the target (in addition to the damage dealt). The part that confuses me is the line "if you are tripped during your own trip attempt". The line immediately preceding it says that it doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.

I would not grant the improved trip or tandem trip, as you are confirming a critical hit. This would be used during a normal attack action. It might, however, give reason for a trip based fighter to be interested in high threat range weapons.

Grand Lodge

Don't apply any trip bonuses to confirm. Don't let them roll twice to confirm.

As to the last line that's confusing you, I would interpret that completely differently. If they ever make a trip attempt, they can drop their weapon instead of going prone (basically give any weapon they wield the trip property). But I don't see this as a failed trip attempt. It doesn't actually say anything happens if your confirmation doesn't exceed your opponent's CMB. I.e. it's only "as if from the trip combat maneuver" if your crit confirmation roll exceeds their CMB. It's just a critical hit confirmation roll otherwise.

Also, remember that by the time you get to 11th level, trip is probably pretty useless--they're probably going to be fighting a lot of things that are huge at that point and thus can't be tripped. Assuming your PCs are medium, they can only trip things up to size large. Things without legs (oozes, snakes, etc) can't be tripped. Swarms can't be tripped. Things with lots of pairs of legs are really hard to trip. Flying things can't be tripped.

Also, do you mean being tripped will provoke 3-5 attacks from each of them, or 3-5 total? If they're planning on one trip attempt provoking 3-5 attacks for each of them I'd be very interested in knowing exactly how they plan on doing that.


thanks for the advice, just wanted to get a second opinion.

The 3-5 opportunity attacks will be 1 attack + 1 vicious stomp from first guy, and then 3 more melee characters, one who has very long reach so will usually be in range.

The first mission will be fighting a huge creature, but they have the ability to enlarge themselves, so it will be interesting to see how it goes.

There will certainly be random encounters with the other things you mentioned, so hopefully it will get the idea across and they can re-spec their characters if necessary.


It's my understanding, also, that you don't provoke attacks of opportunity for being tripped. You only provoke when you stand back up. Vicious Stomp is what grants the ability to get an attack of opportunity for being tripped (and only an unarmed strike at that, so no weapon). And while on the ground, you can still attack standing foes.

Grand Lodge

Bradley Mickle wrote:
It's my understanding, also, that you don't provoke attacks of opportunity for being tripped. You only provoke when you stand back up. Vicious Stomp is what grants the ability to get an attack of opportunity for being tripped (and only an unarmed strike at that, so no weapon). And while on the ground, you can still attack standing foes.
Quote:

Greater Trip (Combat)

You can make free attacks on foes that you knock down.

Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, base attack bonus +6, Int 13.

Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to trip a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Trip. Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes attacks of opportunity.

Normal: Creatures do not provoke attacks of opportunity from being tripped.


Would Vicious Stomp and Greater Trip stack? Or would that be getting multiple attacks from the same instigating action?

Grand Lodge

Bradley Mickle wrote:
Would Vicious Stomp and Greater Trip stack? Or would that be getting multiple attacks from the same instigating action?

Yes, they stack. One is from being tripped. The other is from going prone. Similar but different so they stack.

FAQ, CRB wrote:

Greater Trip: How does this interact with Vicious Stomp (APG)? Do you get two AOOs or just one?

Using these feats together provokes two AOOs, because the two AOO-triggering acts are similar, but different.
Greater Trip gives you an AOO when you trip a foe. Vicious Stomp gives you an AOO occurs when a foe falls prone.

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