Druid Elemental Body: Air Elemental


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

If I am a Druid and I become an Air Elemental, how often can I transform myself into a Whirlwind? I would appreciate a link to show my GM as well.
Also I read someone say that a druid Wild Shapeing as an Air Elemental in Whirlwind form had a DC (for the Whirlwind) based off of their WIS. I know the standard Whirlwind skill said the DC is 10+HD+STR mod, but it also referred to it as "the monster's" so I'm hoping maybe there is a better DC for druids who are Wild Shaping (one perhaps based of WIS).

Grand Lodge

The elemental can do it at will, but it's duration is based on your HD, and it is a standard action to restart it each time. You get it based off your strength as far as I am aware. Also, it does damage based off your unarmed damage, which is also strength based.

Also, you may want to lookup the storm caller prestige class for what size creatures each size elemental can pick up. (small air elemental, 10'-20' whirlwind, can pick up small or smaller creatures.)


If you change from a spell, then DCs of the form are based on the spell level and casting stat.

Wildshape does not appear to list a spell level, caster level or casting stat for any of its features - and as an (Su) it probably doesn't need to. But it also means I al not certain what stat the Whirlwind DC is based off when using wildshape. It should function as a druid spell of the level of the spell being replicated so use WIS, but your GM could fairly argue that as wildshape rules don't say that is how it works that it instead functions as the universal monster rule and is thus a STR based DC.


Mighty Squash wrote:

If you change from a spell, then DCs of the form are based on the spell level and casting stat.

can you please link the source on that?

im preaty sure that for example,if you change into a snake and gain the poison, the poison will be con based not your caster ability based

Silver Crusade

Elemental, Air...

Universal Monster Rules...

The best rule I see is...
Some creatures can transform themselves into whirlwinds and remain in that form for up to 1 round for every 2 HD they have.

And your DC is based on the size of elemental you wildshape into.

Shadow Lodge

zza ni wrote:
Mighty Squash wrote:

If you change from a spell, then DCs of the form are based on the spell level and casting stat.

can you please link the source on that?

im preaty sure that for example,if you change into a snake and gain the poison, the poison will be con based not your caster ability based
Polymorph wrote:
Polymorph: a polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

I would use the Elemental Body spell you're emulating to determine DC. An 8th level druid can Wild Shape as if using Elemental Body II, a 5th level spell, so DC 15+Wis.

EDIT: The alternative is the unofficial standard supernatural ability DC, 10 + 1/2 class level + Wis, which I think should be 1 point lower than the spell-based numbers until the forms you get access to stop improving, at which point the standard supernatural DC becomes a little higher.


So if I understand right, I can use the Whirlwind ability as many times as I want but I can only stay in that form for 1/2 my HD rounds at a time?
I remember reading the part about "The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form" a while ago but I didn't quite understand so I ignored it.

Grand Lodge

Correct.
Oh, you also need to have at least 10' of clearance. So if the roof is 9 feet up, you are hosed.

Also it is a standard action to start it.

And at size small, you can only damage and pick up size small creatures.

That said, if you can get the wizard to dump the enemies into a create pit, you can go down there and turn it into a blender... (5 foot, do damage, turn 90 degrees, 5 foot, do damage...)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber

Actually at small size you can only pick tiny creatures.

Creatures one more size categories smaller may be damaged or picked up.

Powerful Shape can be used to pick up creatures your size or smaller.

Grand Lodge

Creatures one size or smaller than the whirlwind.

Storm Caller (prestige class), which specifies that it gains the whirlwind monster power, stipulates that a 10-20 foot whirlwind can pick up size small.

Grand Lodge

Actually, powerful shape (depending on how it is read) would not help with whirlwind, as what the whirlwind can pick up is dependant on the size of the whirlwind, not the size of the creator. (For example, enlarging an air elemental wont change the size creature it can lift, and a storm kindler can lift the same size creatures whether the storm kindler is size small or medium.)

(ETA: the prestige class is storm kindler, not storm caller)


Weirdo wrote:

Polymorph wrote:
Polymorph: .... The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

Thank you. That was the rule I was referring to but it was past the time of night when I make well referenced answers.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber

I strongly recommend not basing anything off the size of the whirlwind but the elemental. Otherwise Small Elemental can pick up large creatures and be used by PCS as a way of get melee adjacent for full attacks or circumvent numerous obstacles through the use of a 2nd level spell.

Using the size of the elemental makes more sense from a balance stand point and why powerful shape work.

Grand Lodge

Taenia. Check the Shadow Kindler Prestiege class. They stipulate that a 10-20 foot whirlwind, the type a small air elemental can generate, can only pick up size small. 10-30' can pick up size medium, and so on. (I think it tops out at huge.) All of this is not modified by the size of the storm kindler.

That means that the air elementals extremely strong power can not be further buffed by things like powerful shape or enlarge person. It is strictly capped by your level.

storm kindler, Paths of Prestige:

Storm Shape (Su): At 2nd level, a Storm Kindler becomes a physical embodiment of the fury of the storm. As a standard action, she can transform herself into a whirlwind (as the universal monster rule, Bestiary 306) for a number of minutes per day equal to her class level. This time need not be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments.

As a swift action, the Storm Kindler can change the height of her whirlwind form from a minimum of 10 feet tall to a maximum of 20 feet tall. At 4th level, and again every two levels thereafter, the maximum height of the whirlwind increases by 10 feet, to a maximum of 60 feet tall at 10th level.

The Storm Kindler can damage and trap Small or smaller creatures caught in her whirlwind, dealing lethal damage equal to her unarmed strike damage to each one that fails a Ref lex save (DC 10 + the Storm Kindler’s class level + the Storm Kindler’s Strength modifier) and lifting it into the air if it fails a second Ref lex save. At 4th level, and again every two levels thereafter, the size of creatures the Storm Kindler can affect increases by one step, to a maximum of Huge at 8th level.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber

The two are not related. It is a prestige class with specific rules that apply to that class. You cannot extrapolate those rules especially when they clearly differ from the rules as listed. They do not say like an air elemental they only reference the whirlwind special ability then describe the differences between the normal version and the one the prestige class uses.

In this case the OP is talking about a druid in Air elemental shape and not the PrC your are describing

Grand Lodge

Except that the whirlwind power also states that the size of the legal targets is "one size smaller than the size of the whirlwind." not the size of the elemental.

The problem is that they never said what size category each height whirlwind is. (In fact the PRD doesn't list any size limit at all as far as I can tell)

The prestige class establishes what those sizes are supposed to be.

Otherwise you wind up with weird things like Djinns and huge elementals having whirlsinds the same size and power, yet the djinn can only pick up medium creatures, while the air elemental can pick up large.

Grand Lodge

This whole thing gets argued on these boards often enough that it probably deserves to be FAQed (again)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber

I totally agree, I have talked to several of the developers and staff about it but they have a lot of FAQS to go through.

Trust me I have participated in many of those discussions. As it stands the only size you have to work with is that of the elemental so that's what I use.

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