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I'm sue this has been answered, but I can't find the rule.

Say we have a player, let's call him Jim.

Jim has a +1 Dragonbane Frost Shock Flaming Ghost-Touch Thundering Vicious Holy Greatsword (+10 total), and is then the recipient of CL20 Greater Magic Weapon.

I am arguing that nothing happens; he's at the +10 cap. If I'm feeling generous, maybe I let him turn off some special abilities to activate more enhancement bonus, but I'm pretty sure RAW he doesn't get that option.

Jim is arguing he now has a +5 (Lots of special abilities) Greatsword; and that the +10 limitation only applies to permanent enhancements.

Sp What happens?

Can someone point me to a FAQ/Dev Ruling?

Sovereign Court

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He's wrong - no FAQ needed. There is a rule on point -

srd wrote:
A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10

Note the bolded section.

He would need to find a specific rule in order to have an exception to it. The spell Greater Magic Weapon doesn't have one.

It's been discussed several times in reference to the Paladin's Divine Bond.


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http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm

Short answer is the +10 overall is a hard cap and can't be passed by any means.

From the FAQ:

Weapon Bonuses: Can weapon special abilities (such as bane) or class abilities (such as a paladin's divine bond) allow you to exceed the +5 enhancement bonus limit and the +10 bonus-equivalent limitation?

For the enhancement bonus limitation, it depends on the specific effect or ability that's altering the weapon.

Bane: This allows the weapon to exceed the +5 limit, but only against the designated creature type. For example, a +5 dragon-bane longsword is normally a +5 weapon, but has a +7 enhancement bonus against dragons and deals +2d6 points of damage against dragons.

Paladin: The divine bond ability says "These [enhancement] bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5." That means if a paladin has a +5 longsword, she can't use her divine bond to increate the enhancement bonus to +6 or higher (but she could use her bonuses to add abilities such as flaming to the weapon).

The +10 bonus-equivalent limitation is a hard cap for all weapons; you can't exceed that even with class abilities or other unusual abilities.

Sovereign Court

As a caveat - it'd arguably be possible with a bow in an indirect sort of way. Get a bow with +1 & +9 worth of special abilities, and have Greater Magic Weapon cast upon the ammo.

I'm not certain whether that combo would be legal.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:

As a caveat - it'd arguably be possible with a bow in an indirect sort of way. Get a bow with +1 & +9 worth of special abilities, and have Greater Magic Weapon cast upon the ammo.

I'm not certain whether that combo would be legal.

That's the classic way to do it. GMW for ammo is awesome. Whenever I play an archer I buy a rod of extend lesser and give it to the wizard. "I'll give this to you if you use it on me once a day, the other two charges are yours to use as you see fit."


My understanding with bows and ammunition is that they don't stack, you take the greater. But I would still think it caps at +10.

Sovereign Court

BigDTBone wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:

As a caveat - it'd arguably be possible with a bow in an indirect sort of way. Get a bow with +1 & +9 worth of special abilities, and have Greater Magic Weapon cast upon the ammo.

I'm not certain whether that combo would be legal.

That's the classic way to do it. GMW for ammo is awesome. Whenever I play an archer I buy a rod of extend lesser and give it to the wizard. "I'll give this to you if you use it on me once a day, the other two charges are yours to use as you see fit."

Not a bad combo - but it makes Clustered Shot more of a requirement as it doesn't help you punch through DR. In addition, it's probably not worth doing until at least level 12. By then an archer is using at least 5 arrows a round (not counting Zen Archer craziness) - so they'd need multiple castings to last the day.

Bradley Mickle wrote:
My understanding with bows and ammunition is that they don't stack, you take the greater. But I would still think it caps at +10.

Technically the +10 cap is for a specific weapon. The arrows are a seperate weapon from the bow.

And yes - the bonuses don't stack. But they can combine to take the best of both.

The classic very high level archer has an Efficient Quiver and Bane arrows of every sort to use against different enemies so that (at least in tough fights) they always have that extra +2 & 2d6 damage.


So if I'm reading this right, it's legit to have a bow and arrow that is a +19 equivalent (+10 on bow +1 that overlaps and +9 worth of properties on the arrow)... but getting a +11 equivalent on a non-projectile weapon is totally off-limits?

Sovereign Court

Seerow wrote:
So if I'm reading this right, it's legit to have a bow and arrow that is a +19 equivalent (+10 on bow +1 that overlaps and +9 worth of properties on the arrow)... but getting a +11 equivalent on a non-projectile weapon is totally off-limits?

Theoretically - yes. Though chucking out +10 arrows (even if +4 of it comes from the Greater Magic Weapon spell - so it's really only a +6 arrow) is - even at high levels - pretty freakishly expensive at well over 1,000gp a shot.

Even at 20th level, (standard total wealth of 880k) - using up 10k or so a round is rather pricey. Far too expensive to be viable.

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