Wall of text incoming;
So I have been browsing for a while and can not really figure out what to pick. I am in a group of four characters with a barbarian, a cleric/paladin/some-prestige-class-i-cannot-remember-the-name-of-now, a rogue/ranger, and then me the druid. I am the only one at level 9, while the others are at level 10. I serve as the groups primary spellcaster, and have a wisdom score of 18, (which i aim to increase by picking up create wondrous item feat, and hoping to create a +6 headband of wisdom, instead of my current +2 ioun stone) which is decent and gives me access to some bonus spells. At the sight of more spells through a domain along with those delicious granted bonusses, I was like "Hell yea! Let's do that!", especially since my animal companion has a way of being killed in one blow (hill giants doesn't go well with wolves apparently).
Then the cleric/... said that I should really consider the AC, he even made his bid on how that AC would be like, but missed a few bonusses, which made me want to look into it. Since I had a wolf AC in D&D it would translate directly into a wolf AC in Pathfinder. So I made a sample wolf AC, and wow ...
Large animal
Init +3; Senses: Low-light vision, scent; Evasion, Devotion (+4 on Will saves against enchantment spells and effects), Multiattack (instead gain a secondary attack with your primary weapon with a -5 penalty)
Equipment: +1 Breastplate (+7 AC, AC penalty -4, max dex +3, 60 lbs) (will cost 4800 (200 for Breastplate+1000 for +1 armor=1200x4 for large non-humanoid armor), but should be buyable in the largest city we're currently in, this will, however, leave me with too little gold to buy the materials for crafting a +6 headband of wisdom)
Defense
AC 30, touch 13, flat-footed 27 (+3 dex, +10 natural, +7 armor)
Hp 76 (8d8+40)
Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +3 (+7 against enchantments)
Offense
Speed 35 ft.
(see my feat choices)
A) Bite +14/+9 (1d8+10 plus trip)
B) Bite +13/+8 (1d8+10 plus trip)/Power Attack (Bite) +11/+6 (1d8+16 plus trip)
C) Bite +13/+8 (2d6+10 plus trip)
Stats
Str 24, Dex 16, Con 20, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 6
BAB: +6; CMB +14; CMD +27/31(trip) (-3 flat-footed)
Skills: Acrobatics +3, Intimidate +2 (or Climb (if possible) +7 and Intimidate +1), Perception +5, Stealth +3, Survival +1, Swim +7
Feats: Endurance, Light armor proficiency, Medium armor proficiency,
A) Weapon Focus (bite) (for Dazziling Display lvl 10 (can be further improved with Intimidating Prowess at lvl 13))
B) Power Attack
C) Improved Natural Weapon (improve natural attack by one size category (1d8->2d6)) (Vital Strike at lvl 10)
This is a quite a substantial buff from what I had in D&D. However our barbarian runs around with 120'ish HP and our Cleric/... has around 30 armor, and they both hit for massive damage. Our ranger/rogue is mainly a ranged attacker. So I feel like my AC would still be slightly inferior to our frontline, and it would require some gear (which is much needed for myself (I was 1 or 2 ability score point from having to reroll)) to scale into later levels. So I feel like the AC would be somewhat rebundant, although the tripping and damage it would provide along with being beefy would be pretty good.
My other choice is either Fire or Arson domain (what I've come down to, considered weather, but gave it up for fire resistance). I will be honest, I like blasts, I like dealing a ton of damage in an instance. I am also in possession of a casters shield, which would allow me to store a lvl 6 fireball in it each day, which could come in handy (of course most spells will always be situational). Also the simplicity of not having to choose some of your spells, but know them always being there is kinda appealing to me.
As it is now, I am really split between what I should pick. I feel like my role will be diminished by picking an AC, and that I would fall down to become kinda useless in the long run since gearing the AC would leave me starved, and not gearing the AC would let it fall off in 5 or so levels, which would then make not taking a domain a silly mistake. We are playing a custom campaign and will probably not end soon. However the AC as it is now could easily count as another character for our group supporting through tripping and providing a fearsome adversary in direct combat.
Hope someone can provide some insight or their opinions and reasons for which they would pick.
Regards,
JSDS
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Caster Druids are their own brand of awesome, as my spouse's Flame Druid would attest.
Choose Feather Domain take the Boon Companion feat and a Roc animal companion.
Then you have both a domain and an animal companion!
Even if you don't use it in combat, it's still a nice OOC mount.
I just disregarded the animal domain based on the spells it provide, which i see as low-average at their best (except (in feather domain) fly and the antilife shell). However I saw the Boon Companion option and thought it would be cool, but taking up a feat slot and the domain for the basically the same as you would get by picking the AC seems a bit wastefull to me. I would also have to track down an environment where the roc would be found and bringing my team on a major detour (atm, we're on a schedule). And I might also add that (as far as I know) dinosaurs are not a part of this adventure, so sadly I cannot pick one of those.
Thanks for you opinions so far!
The Spirit's Gift feat, if you don't mind dropping one of your druid's feats, goes a long way towards reducing how much you have to spend on your animal companion. Every day, you pick between giving them fast healing 1, DR 5/adamantine, +2 NA, +2 str, blur for the day, or a few other thing that aren't as good.
You could just do an eagle as a companion (My druid got one). It doesn't do much in combat (except for always giving a flankbonus to fellow parymembers) and has a very high AC.
(Best feather domain spell is Mass Fly at level 11. 110+ minutes of flight for the whole party from 11th level and up!).
Full Animal Companion for just a feat is very cheap!
Thanks for the tip QuidEst, that is a really neat feat, also allows you to customize your AC from day to day, definitely worth considering!
Hmm, that mass fly spell seems very tempting indeed, and I will still gain access to antilife shell through druid spells.
But then again, that would be an entirely different druid from what I have played so far, and I am not completely sold on the idea to be honest.
Your armor price is wrong.
Its 200 gp for breastplate, x4 for being size L barding = 800 gp, +150 Gp for Masterwork. THEN you add on the enchantment cost of 1000 (assuming you are making it yourself)), for final total of 1950 gp (or 2950 gp if you are buying it). Note that if you are making the barding from scratch, total cost is 317 gp for base materials, which would lower your total cost to 1317 gp. Fabricate it, bing, done.
That should free up some gold room for you. You can make it +3 for the price you were calculating if you are making it from scratch and not buying it.
When they say 'price', they mean for the base item, not quadrupling the magic cost. It takes the same amount of money to enhance a colossal Sword to +1 as it does a Tiny sword to +1. Likewise, Masterwork cost is tacked on at the end, its not multiplied.
But the Colossal sword costs x64 base cost to make, because its so huge. So a 15 gp longsword would Market Price at 960 GP for a 15' long weapon, +300 Gp for Masterwork, and cost the same as any other weapon to enhance.
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Note that if you want to make his armor mithral, that WILL cost x4, because you're making a size L set of medium armor.
==Aelryinth
I see, thought you would multiply the full price, that does indeed free up quite a bit of gold for me, thanks for making me aware! Also I had not thought of the masterwork step at all.
If you are a melee druid with spells as a buff option, you will want a companion. The flanking and mount options are too good to pass up for any weapon user (or if you are wild shape focused, gorilla riding a T-Rex ^^).
If you are a casting druid, a domain is always better. That said, not all domains are created equal. If you use a bow, feather domain can be good. That said, the best I have found is a Storm Druid using Air and eventually Weather.
Storm Druid loses their spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally to gain Spontaneously Domain Spell of that level. This could mean, Call lighting, Chain Lightning, Call Lightning Storm. Remember to turn into an Air Elemental (large as soon as you can) and bump up the power from Call Lightning and Call Lightning Storm. You can also still cast (since call is a move action to bring down a bolt) or fire off a bow shot (when not in whirlwind form of course, however you could still shoot it as an air elemental)
Trust me, not having to deal with fire resistance/immunity already puts Air and Weather a couple steps above fire. Assuming your GM is not the kind who says "You use lightning? Well that red dragon is actually a blue dragon."
This would heavily depend on your stats. If you're statted as a good melee fighter, then the AC is a better choice. However, it sounds like you're maxing out your Wisdom and want to be primarily a spellcaster. In that case, then domain is the better way to go.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Aelryinth wrote:
Note that if you want to make his armor mithral, that WILL cost x4, because you're making a size L set of medium armor.
==Aelryinth
However you're only using double the materials, weight is multiplied by 2 not by 4. So why would you be paying 4 times for the materials when you only use twice as much?
Edit:Link to FAQ request for armors of different materials and size and their cost. Go on over and hit the FAQ button so we can get a good answer on it.
You're spending x4 because the rules for making barding for large animals note it costs x4, and using mithral is part of the base cost of materials, where masterwork is the cost of additional time/skill.
===Aelryinth
Ah yes, one of the hardest decisions in Pathfinder: deciding which awesome option to settle on.
No doubt, the Animal Companion is invaluable for its extra (and powerful) actions in combat. But if you find a domain that fits you like a glove, I would say go with that (if it's super thematic for your character anyway).
Druids -always- have summons at the ready, so don't forget that
A lesser rod of extend spell would be very helpful. You can extend greater magic fang for your Animal Companion. In 3.5, my elf druid archer had a wardog animal companion, and the AC had the most hit points and highest AC in the party, and the trip attack was very useful for battlefield control.
Animal companion. Better action economy, serves as a flanking buddy for your allies, and gives "you" something to do when you run out of spells. 1 extra spell that you don't get to pick at each spell level doesn't really compare, imo.
Dafydd wrote: If you are a melee druid with spells as a buff option, you will want a companion. The flanking and mount options are too good to pass up for any weapon user (or if you are wild shape focused, gorilla riding a T-Rex ^^).
If you are a casting druid, a domain is always better. That said, not all domains are created equal. If you use a bow, feather domain can be good. That said, the best I have found is a Storm Druid using Air and eventually Weather.
I'm not sure this conventional wisdom isn't backwards.
A melee druid needs to spend money more urgently on himself than a caster druid and a companion is a money pit. A caster druid benefits from having an extra tank around that she doesn't have to spend an action summoning while the melee druid doesn't need protection.
A flanking buddy is only +2 and won't apply most of the time because of the difficulties of maneuvering large animals into flanking positions and the bias of wildshaping druids towards mobile combat using either vital strike or pounce. The money saved by not equipping a companion should generally be worth +1 on as many pieces of equipment as the companion needs to wear to keep up.
Only depends on the role you want to play. Animal companion will add a lot of damage to your actions. Domains add more versatility in spell options.
So which do you want to be? To do? I find a lot of people pick AC. I think given what Domains actually offer, it's often overlooked. See what you like in Domains first. See if anything in there is going to help the group or yourself. Then go from there.
Atarlost wrote: Dafydd wrote: If you are a melee druid with spells as a buff option, you will want a companion. The flanking and mount options are too good to pass up for any weapon user (or if you are wild shape focused, gorilla riding a T-Rex ^^).
If you are a casting druid, a domain is always better. That said, not all domains are created equal. If you use a bow, feather domain can be good. That said, the best I have found is a Storm Druid using Air and eventually Weather.
I'm not sure this conventional wisdom isn't backwards.
A melee druid needs to spend money more urgently on himself than a caster druid and a companion is a money pit. A caster druid benefits from having an extra tank around that she doesn't have to spend an action summoning while the melee druid doesn't need protection.
A flanking buddy is only +2 and won't apply most of the time because of the difficulties of maneuvering large animals into flanking positions and the bias of wildshaping druids towards mobile combat using either vital strike or pounce. The money saved by not equipping a companion should generally be worth +1 on as many pieces of equipment as the companion needs to wear to keep up. I would have agreed with you, before the team work feats Outflank and Pack Flanking as well as Pack Tactics. Now, you can turn into a T-Rex and have your gorilla buddy ride you around swinging the biggest sword it can find (or lance if you like that stuff). Thus, the druid gets to wild shape, needing few pieces of gear (ie no weapons, or armor). Ape gets good STR, so it does not need the belt (dex or con belt are always good though) or Armor (Large+ Trex often takes focus).
Getting the Eagle Domain for the Hawk Familiar means never having to fail a Perception check again.
Menhir Savant is a pretty sweeeeeet archetype, if you decide you want to go the caster route. It gives up some of the druid's nature-y stuff for things that are, like... Useful.
Dafydd wrote: I would have agreed with you, before the team work feats Outflank and Pack Flanking as well as Pack Tactics. Now, you can turn into a T-Rex and have your gorilla buddy ride you around swinging the biggest sword it can find (or lance if you like that stuff). Thus, the druid gets to wild shape, needing few pieces of gear (ie no weapons, or armor). Ape gets good STR, so it does not need the belt (dex or con belt are always good though) or Armor (Large+ Trex often takes focus). That's not good. You have a size penalty, terrible AC, and the con of a medium character. You really need wild armor and a wild heavy shield to have appropriate AC unless you're using whichever of the shaman domain options gets magic vestment. Your gorilla needs every bit of gear he can wear to compensate for having medium BAB and slow hit die progression. He's closer to wizard BAB than rogue. Even with the same amount of weapon and belt investment as a fighter he's not going to be hitting well.
You can find better uses for your feats. Either the grapple chain and dragon style for pounce builds (almost all of whom have grab) or the vital strike chain and INA for big hit builds. INA isn't bad for pounce builds either since there are generally 4 claws including the rake and they all benefit form INA in claw. Also powerful shape, planar wildshape, wild speech. Maybe even some summon boosters for when melee isn't an option. The air elemental scimitar plan has a bit of slack eventually, but isn't ridable.
Oh, and you're obviously not familiar with actually playing druids because T-Rex is never a valid wildshape form. It's gargantuan and druids never get to turn into gargantuan anything.
Atarlost wrote:
Oh, and you're obviously not familiar with actually playing druids because T-Rex is never a valid wildshape form. It's gargantuan and druids never get to turn into gargantuan anything.
Or maybe it was hyperbole. You can turn into an Allosaurus, which unless we're getting to be very specific 10-year olds about it, are basically T-Rexes.
Puna'chong wrote: Atarlost wrote:
Oh, and you're obviously not familiar with actually playing druids because T-Rex is never a valid wildshape form. It's gargantuan and druids never get to turn into gargantuan anything.
Or maybe it was hyperbole. You can turn into an Allosaurus, which unless we're getting to be very specific 10-year olds about it, are basically T-Rexes. No. They aren't. They have entirely separate bestiary pages. They don't even have similar attack lines. Talking about wildshaping as a T-Rex is like talking about grabbing an Efreeti with Lesser Planar Binding because Janni and Efreeti are basically the same thing.
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(In his best 7 year old voice) Oh, yeah? Well, Megaraptor could totally kick both of their butts!
Atarlost wrote: Puna'chong wrote: Atarlost wrote:
Oh, and you're obviously not familiar with actually playing druids because T-Rex is never a valid wildshape form. It's gargantuan and druids never get to turn into gargantuan anything.
Or maybe it was hyperbole. You can turn into an Allosaurus, which unless we're getting to be very specific 10-year olds about it, are basically T-Rexes. No. They aren't. They have entirely separate bestiary pages. They don't even have similar attack lines. Talking about wildshaping as a T-Rex is like talking about grabbing an Efreeti with Lesser Planar Binding because Janni and Efreeti are basically the same thing. I rest my case.
Edit: Also, I live in Utah, where we have lots of dinosaurs just hanging out all over the place, and a really cool museum with lots of dinosaurs in it. Just so you know. In case you're interested, hit me up, we'll go sometime.
Atarlost wrote: Dafydd wrote: I would have agreed with you, before the team work feats Outflank and Pack Flanking as well as Pack Tactics. Now, you can turn into a T-Rex and have your gorilla buddy ride you around swinging the biggest sword it can find (or lance if you like that stuff). Thus, the druid gets to wild shape, needing few pieces of gear (ie no weapons, or armor). Ape gets good STR, so it does not need the belt (dex or con belt are always good though) or Armor (Large+ Trex often takes focus). That's not good. You have a size penalty, terrible AC, and the con of a medium character. You really need wild armor and a wild heavy shield to have appropriate AC unless you're using whichever of the shaman domain options gets magic vestment. Your gorilla needs every bit of gear he can wear to compensate for having medium BAB and slow hit die progression. He's closer to wizard BAB than rogue. Even with the same amount of weapon and belt investment as a fighter he's not going to be hitting well.
You can find better uses for your feats. Either the grapple chain and dragon style for pounce builds (almost all of whom have grab) or the vital strike chain and INA for big hit builds. INA isn't bad for pounce builds either since there are generally 4 claws including the rake and they all benefit form INA in claw. Also powerful shape, planar wildshape, wild speech. Maybe even some summon boosters for when melee isn't an option. The air elemental scimitar plan has a bit of slack eventually, but isn't ridable.
Oh, and you're obviously not familiar with actually playing druids because T-Rex is never a valid wildshape form. It's gargantuan and druids never get to turn into gargantuan anything. I have never found a need for wild armor/shield. The minor bonus, unless in very heavy armor, has rarely been worth the large gold investment. Same with the Gorilla buddy. Reach (from being large) as well as flanking and strong damage have killed most things before they could reach me and my pet. The odd Save of Suck spell I trust to my companions to take care off the enemy spell caster, either disrupt or counter spell.
Course, your GMs may be more blood thirsty then mine have been. Understandable, as Animal Companions are "more replaceable" then player characters.
Yes, Trex is not a valid form. Yes an allosaurus is. Next time, I will inject more reality in when I turn into a beast that has been extinct for 65+ million years with my magic, while my gorilla rides my back, swinging a sword the size of a car trying to slay a dragon.
You are correct, the attack lines are not the same. All trex can do is bite and swallow. Big Al can pounce and claw and rake as well as bite. Much worse...
I think I will go with the domain, but I will reconsider/revisit air and weather domains again, and check up on my (now slightly expanded) spell list to see what I lack and which domains best compensate for my inherent weaknesses.
Some of you mentioned it could depend on my stats, and they are quite pathetic, 9 str, 11 dex, 12 con, 11 int (now, thanks for saving me elf race!), 18 wis, 11 cha (whoops). So I would say I am quite unsuited to be on any front line.
My perception is already over 9000 (almost), and our ranger/rogues is even way beyond that.
I also enjoyed the sheer image of having a gorilla riding a T-Rex (no matter if it's possible or what not), whilst swinging some weapon like a hooligan.
In general; Thanks a lot for all of your feedbacks! In the end I feel like I embrace my role and place in the party better as the caster.
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