The Emerald Lodge is growing

Pathfinder Online

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

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You hear a lot of doom and gloom discussions here. So maybe some time to celebrate a growing settlement. Yes you read right - a growing settlement - despite it being now second of May.

We had a few new members in the last week - coming via various routes.

One member contacted me after doing some searches and liked our profile - thanks for joining.
One was send my way from Atheory - thanks sending him our way. He seemed very happy when I talked to him in chat and realized we know some of the same people and that I speak German.
Grips silver tongue convinced a third one - well done
A PFU member decided we are the right place to build up his company - he wants to build a PvE mercenary company and felt our independance is a great fit. Double welcome - as for this to work he will have to convince others to join him. Wait - that one hasn't joined us yet :)
And one member joined after I send my very first buddy key to a friend with whom I played in the past. I was reluctant to send it out as the game is still very rough - but at least he is now close to fighter 4 and hasn't given up yet despite some 'short-comings' he sees in the game.

There are also some anonymous new members. One might have been thanks to some French chat that I couldn't follow. At least one is an 1000 XP alt - but hey - we take what we get.

It is at times like this that you feel upbeat and feel it is right to carry on as settlement leader and to try the best to make a place that people enjoy to come and join - or to collaborate with.

And it is times like that when you can endure the doom and gloom discussion for a while longer. Yes we have setbacks as well - 2 members are temporarily gone as they are Mac Users. But I hope I will get them back - once the game works properly on Macs again.

And off course - there is always hope that some of the new members bring their friends.

Goblin Squad Member

Good for you Thod! Hope your settlement works out.

Lets be realistic. First off anyone who activated in January got backdated XP to the first so the losses won't be fully realized until the end of the month. Also have all of your members logged in since the first or do they get auto-booted if their subscription lapses? If not then you don't really know if you've lost anyone yet.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

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Growth = new members - lost members > 0

I'm fully aware of inactive members. Most of them became inactive well before 1st of May. I have three inactive companies - one that joined in January and that I've never seen, one single player one who won a settlement himself in the land rush but never set up his own and ceased playing around a month ago and losing Deianira and her group really was a hard blow - that is also now at least 2 weeks ago.

I also never got many of my land rush backers to join me.

To reiterate:
Growth = new members - lost members > 0

Interesting that you seem to know better how this formula works for my own settlement as I'm myself. I truly must be a poor settlement leader not being aware how the game works.

Edit: or to put it in different currency - the number of active players I'm aware of playing for EL and the amount of time played as well as the number of characters actively progressing is at an all time high in Emerald Lodge.
No - I don't have hard numbers - but I play daily, I interact, I know who has fought an escalation and delivered victor markers, I know who gathered or helped to get resources for new outposts and holdings into the vault.
I know because I play and lead my settlement - despite it sometimes being hard to ignore the sniping you are exposed here.

CEO, Goblinworks

Great news!

Goblin Squad Member

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Thod wrote:

I also never got many of my land rush backers to join me.

Same with Keepers Pass, most did not ever play even in free Alpha. I think a lot of the original backers were forum warriors with little or no intention to ever actually play.

Regardless of original backers, we are getting new members every week and growing steadily as well. Keeper's is healthy and in a good position.

@ Thod. There is "growth" and there is growth.

"Growth" is when members are joining faster then they are removing themself from the roster but you aren't cleaning out inactive members. Your player population may be growing but your group isn't actually growing in activity or active members.

I'm sure a lot of people know that experience of logging into a game you haven't played in a couple years to see the guild you were in has 200 members and you are the only one who's been online all week. That's "growth".

Growth is when your average online members and activity are actually growing.

You can measure it by whatever standard you wish but this game needs growth if it's to succeed. "Growth" doesn't pay the bills.

If I actually had kept my accounts I'd have activated at the end of month 1 to get the full XP and then let XP build while I occasionally check in until the game was in a playable state. Now would be a time I'd be logging in to get a good feel for the game before deciding if I felt the game was advancing at a rate that I felt my 15$ a month would ever be worthwhile.

Of course I've already made that decision but May will be a time that many others will have to.

Goblin Squad Member

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He didn't claim the game was growing. He said his settlement is.

I have never even interacted with him in game, but just reading his posts would lead me to believe that if ANY settlement were to grow, his would have as good a chance as any.

If the guy says his settlement is growing, and you aren't even in the game, why do you feel compelled to thread crap on him?

Goblin Squad Member

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Andius, you really hold no relevance here.

Thod says his settlement is growing, even counting in the players who have left.

Your response is effectively "nuh uh!"

Seeing as Thod actually runs a settlement, I'm inclined to believe him.

Didn't you have other games to go be in charge of? I'm sure they're missing you dearly...

Thod wrote:
Yes you read right - a growing settlement - despite it being now second of May.

Thod's post is obviously aimed to debunk the idea that May is going to be a hard month on PFO sub numbers. It's a lot of flaws in that regard and I pointed them out.

I do have more than 20 minutes each day Alex. More than enough to shoot off a few posts here and still play other games or sometimes even do it while I play other games.

In this case I'm using the facilities. ;)

Goblin Squad Member

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I would assume it is actually a bit of settlement corporate-presence PR. Despite predictions going back months that Emerald Lodge would have to give in and sign up with either Xelias or EBA eventually they have managed to survive as an independent entity (as have several others like Talonguard and Pathfinder University) - and even to some extent prosper.

They have my congratulations on that.

Goblin Squad Member

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It is good to hear that EL is still growing. Growth is having more players today than you did yesterday, simple perspective.

Whether the game on a macro level is experiencing growth, stagnation or declined doesn't change the micro reality for an individual company or settlement.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

It is sad to hear you spew uninformed opinions because of your hatred of this game. I once read how you described yourself as so much more intelligent as the average player.

So what didn't you understang when I posted

Growth = new members - lost members > 0

Tharak wrote:

Growth" is when members are joining faster then they are removing themself from the roster

You are repeating what I have written in different words - and then tell the public that I'm wrong. And if you look at my edit in my second post then you would realize that I take (to the best possibility) into account inactive players.

Has it ever occured to you that the world isn't black and white - that there is good news beside bad news.

Neadil Edam actually got it spot on. My post is corporate-presence PR. Callidor also got it right when he tries to explain to you that I only talk about the settlement growing.
I actually don't know about the state of the overall game. I have my supspicions that in some areas there is growth, in some there is stagnation and in some there is loss of people. Oh - and congratulations for Keepers who seem to also fall into the growth category - useful info to have.
Back to corporate-presence PR - in such a situation it is important in attracting new members to us that we seen as growing and not declining.

Emerald Lodge has gone through phases of growth, stagnation and yes - even decline. Call me a hippocrite that I didn't post at bad times - but don't call me wrong when I post at good times. At the moment we are growing and we reached a new peak in active membership and active playing time of our members.

This is a PvP game - there is more to it then success on the battlefield. Especially for a small settlement diplomacy, relations with others and the reputation play as big (or bigger) a role for survival as pure military might.

Oh - off course there is OE and the Goon Swarm - but I will deal with them when I see them. Anyhow according to you it will never get that far ...

Until then


thanks for keeping this thread in the headlines and even to get some members of opposing settlements or who have stopped playing to come in here to post in my defence.
You clearly didn't do any harm to me and my reputation or my settlement. About your own reputation - well - you are way beyond caring for that anyhow for a long time now. So who cares if you make a fool out of yourself.
The difference between the two of us - when I make a fool out of myself here on these boards then I use Theodum - and I do it in a planned way. There is value in playing the fool - if done properly.
But whom do I tell this - you know better than me anyhow.

Goblin Squad Member

Not to derail this thread too much, but Thod, I assure you that Goons will not be in PFO. They are invested in Crowfall, as are many of the mega guilds.

Secondly, this I believe is OE. Any person can now try the game for the 15 day trial, and then purchase the $30 package and continue playing on a monthly subscription basis. By definition, that is Open Enrollment.

Ryan's wordsmithing, "Too Clever by Half" , when trying to play it fast and loose as to what stage the game is really in and trying to justify a monetization model that is outside of the industry standard.

I hope that someone at GW begins to market this game, makes some tweaks, and reverses course on some missteps to attract NEW players.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member


I used 'Goon Swarm' as placeholder for any Mega Guild. If this game doesn't die (and I believe it will survive) then one of these guilds will come eventually.
I expect that someone like EBA would have to fear this much more as EL. We wouldn't make a worthy adversary for such a guild and hopefully will be flexible enough to adapt.
I have to agree with your assessment of OE - yes - in principle OE entered by the backdoor.
But I disagree about there being no NEW players. More and more the backbone of EL becomes non-KS players. These are NEW players in my book. They are a trickle and hard to come by - but these players are not mystical - they do join - and some join EL - this was why I wrote this thread post. Do we get a higher proportion of these NEW players as other guilds - who knows. Seems at least Keepers are able to attract some of these as well.
Will there be enough? I used the word trickle for a reason. No - not enough for sure at the moment. So will the trickle get bigger or die out? I can't tell - but I'm placing myself in a position to benefit from these new players as well as I can.

Goblin Squad Member

All of our recent recruits are new entries to the game, haven't seen a "new" KS player in a while.

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maybe you are just trading players, what s make u believe that ur new recruits wont have the same fate that the formers?

I saw your calculation. Your quote was completely out of context. I was defining "growth" as opposed to growth. "Growth" being pretty clearly labeled as a meaningless term to anyone who can pick up on the connotations. Meaningless enough it's not even really worth talking about. Generally my favorite measure of activity is the average players logged into Teamspeak during your busy hours because I've always viewed anyone who doesn't use TS as pretty useless to the group and only active members use it.

The original post you made was that you brought in new members so you were growing. My point is we didn't know if you've lost any so we don't actually know if meaningful growth has occurred. If you have a meaningful measure such as that your parties are getting larger or your presence in voice comms is up then awesome.

I was just adressing your original post and the connotations I felt it contained based on my experience of how of most people you bring in when mass recruiting the majority will have left the game / stopped using that character / gone inactive within a couple weeks and some of those who remain will end up not being contributing members. A small portion end up being your core membership. That's even true in healthy titles. So I felt "we brought in some new members" was kind of a funny thing to brag about. Any group not doing so on a regular basis will quickly shrivel and die.

If those connotations were not intended and you actually are growing by a meaningful measure then good for you. I was addressing your post as I read it.

There is no test that is perfect and there is always margin for error so I tend not to talk about scores publically too often but I've taken more than one official test that reflects that if you were to stick me in a room with a couple dozen other people I'm generally going to be the smartest one there. You can choose to believe it or not, but its true no matter what you believe.

For the record there are a few individuals in PFO I believe may be smarter than me. Avena Oats and Decius both have the mark of evidence of extreme intelligence coupled with the inability to always communicate it effectively I associate with extreme genius. I just believe that in Decius's case my experience in Open World PvP as compared to his near complete lack of it counts for a lot in the kinds of subjects we debated.

Also for the record I do not consider PFO to have yet reached the status of "Open World PvP title" in any meaningful capacity. The penalties for winning are currently stronger than those for losing.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Go to the open Golarion mumble server and observe yourself. If you would be playing you would have noticed an increased presence of EL yourself

EL started with hardly ANY mumble presence itself. We nearly got out butts kicked during the Barons Folly fight for the tower because only 2 players actually communicated via mumble while the others had been coordinated via the chat in the game. That was mid January.

We started using Mumble more and more in the following weeks.

A month ago I decided we needed to move from a hardly active settlement mumble to the open Golarion server.

Now you are able to meet with more and more players there.

So when I talk 'growth' then this is part of it and it points upwards. Actually this part shows even more spectacular 'growth' as some other measures I would count as well

a) number of posts in our forums
b) number of new members / week in our forums or our settlement
c) number of members logged in to our forums in the last week
d) number of characters activly taking part as crafters / gatherers / during escalations

Your problem is - you have NONE of the above data while I have at least a very good idea about them. Knowing this is part of my job as settlement leader.
Beside that dealing with numbers and doing algorithms out of them - measuring something - is my day to day job and what draws me to games.

So all you have is opinion or prejudice.

So yes - EL has it all - growth, "Growth", 'growth' - you name it - unless of course the above doesn't count - after all you mention TS participation as the gold standard for growth - alas we use Mumble and might not qualify.

Goblin Squad Member

I'd echo what Thod is saying over in our neck of the echo woods. Some turnover as expected after the 4th month but overall no dip to slight growth.

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