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I'm a bit baffled by the duration of Debilitating Injury. It lasts one round, which means it ends at the beginning of the rogues next turn, correct?
So... the rogue will never get any use out of it himself unless he manages sneak attack the same for twice in one round? That's not gonna happen before level 8 unless you dual-wield. Even then it's not that easy to set up a full-attack with sneak attack AND happen to hit with both attacks, especially since you'll suffer dual-wield or iterative attack penalties (though the second attack would benefit from Bewildered if the first is a hit).
That seems unneccessary limiting, considering the ability was meant to fix the rogue's "to hit"-problem. Shouldn't the duration be "until the end of the rogue's next turn" or something like that?
I believe 1 round is from your turn, to the end of your next turn
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combat rules
Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.
It is more useful for a two or higher level rogue (or both), but I wouldn't call it useless otherwise. Imposing a -2 ac penalty is still helpful for the rest of the party.
And,as for helping accuracy, the higher level penalties are pretty high. Couple that with flanking (and possibly outflank) and the rogues later attacks are much more likely to hit. And, again, as debilitating strikes debuff the enemy for everyone, the party has a greater incentive to help set up sneak attacks.
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Odd, and here I was thinking it was amazingly powerful, as the unchained rogue already forces you down the high dex TWF route, and this ability basically removes the whole "at lower to-hits" portion of TWF's "lots of attacks at lower to-hits." The first attack is likely to hit, and then the rogue activates blender mode.
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You only need to hit twice one time. Every round after that, you just need to hit once to extend it. Rogue is rewarded for TWF with something that offsets its penalties, and there are talents that help.
Don't like that route? No problem! Lower you enemy's attack instead. That's a great option any time you can't set up a two-hit combo, since it gives him a reason to not hit the d8 martial that sneak attacked him. Need to set up a combo? Hamper movement instead. So yeah, bewildering has limited usefulness (it also doesn't help you with single attacks against anything with fast healing), but it shines in its area. When it doesn't, you have good options that do work (except against fast healing; then you just drop below it in initiative and bewilder to help your party.)
the unchained rogue already forces you down the high dex TWF route
Can you explain, please? I don't really see anything other than this very ability that forces you to go TWF.
I still think it's too limiting. Makes a whole lot of builds not work with this ability or at least not very good. No debuffing with acid splash SLA in the surprise round so you can hit easier in the first round of combat. No sniping (usually only one attack power round). No chill touch spamming (also just one attack per round). And worst of all: No single weapon swashbuckling (not before level 8 anyway).
And again, I think sneaking is not easy enough to pull off with any consistency to warrant such a limiting duration.
I wouldn't say it forces you into TWF... But free weapon finesse, Full Dex modifier to damage with both hands, and sneak attack? Yeah, TWF is going to look real tempting to most Unchained Rogues
Has it been confirmed that it's full Dex to offhand damage? I couldn't find anything but discussions without a real concussion if this topic so far.
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I don't believe there's ever been an official ruling on that.
That said, TWF Rogues aren't actually that Feat starved (you need the basic TFW line, which you grab at 1st, 9th, and 15th, plus Twist Away, and Iron Will, possibly Combat Expertise and Two-Weapon Feint at some point, and that's basically it...and you can grab extra Feats with Rogue Talents), so you can afford Double Slice if it's ruled you need it (and you choose to so invest).
I believe the penalty of Debilitating Injury should also apply if the creature provokes an attack of opportunity from the rogue?
Has it been confirmed that it's full Dex to offhand damage? I couldn't find anything but discussions without a real concussion if this topic so far.
Why would it? The rogue uses Dexterity in place of Strength, and anything that makes you lose your Strength bonus to damage also makes you lose your Dex bonus to damage.
The way I read it, just substitute the word "Dexterity" anywhere you see "Strength", so half on off hand attacks (unless you get Double Slice), 1.5x on two handed attacks (elven curved blade, Aldori dueling sword), etc.
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Sometimes you'll get a sneak attack via an AoO -- then the AC penalty will last until the enemy's next turn.
If anything, Hampered is the worst of them, since when they're already standing beside you they'll just wale you down with full attacks and not moving.
Unless you're sniping. Then it keeps them from closing in on you (or getting away)
Unless you're sniping. Then it keeps them from closing in on you (or getting away)
Also works for a high-defense build (either pure Rogue or multiclass something else even tankier after getting DI) where you go up and hamper them and then they either have to stay there and attack the gal who built high defense or give up a full attack and provoke to even move 5 feet.
I'm a bit baffled by the duration of Debilitating Injury. It lasts one round, which means it ends at the beginning of the rogues next turn, correct?
So... the rogue will never get any use out of it himself unless he manages sneak attack the same for twice in one round? That's not gonna happen before level 8 unless you dual-wield. Even then it's not that easy to set up a full-attack with sneak attack AND happen to hit with both attacks, especially since you'll suffer dual-wield or iterative attack penalties (though the second attack would benefit from Bewildered if the first is a hit).
That seems unneccessary limiting, considering the ability was meant to fix the rogue's "to hit"-problem. Shouldn't the duration be "until the end of the rogue's next turn" or something like that?
It lasts 1 round plus 1 round for each additional sneak attack you land. Seems to me it assumes a 4th level rogue will be dual wielding.
But really the rogue never had problems hitting at levels 4-8. This addresses the rogue's problem at hitting the higher levels when they do have multiple attacks. At 4th level you can multiple attacks with TWF and then the situation AOO. And really if you land a sneak attack against a CR appropriate creature the creature will probably be dead before your next round anyways with the bonus the flanking partner gets.