PFS #6-19 Test of Tar Kuata (Spoilers)


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Grand Lodge 5/5

Targ8practice wrote:
Whats the procedure if a player wants to nominate their character as a jewel sage candidate? I saw that mentioned in the reporting section

In past situations like this there was a thread in the Faction Talk section. I think there is one that was moved there, which would be my suggestion (unless someone has a better answer)

5/5 5/55/55/5

Targ8practice wrote:
Whats the procedure if a player wants to nominate their character as a jewel sage candidate? I saw that mentioned in the reporting section

You hop up and down and go ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!

Results are about as expected.

4/5 5/55/55/5 ****

About to run the scenario tonight, but on my own play through, I really did not enjoy the tests. We still accumulated a great number of points, but it didn't ever feel like we gained a point from our character's skill. Instead it felt like everything was driven entirely on luck.

To drive this point, I would say that Aeotsep would flub half of these trials. 5th level monk versus a Knowledge check? A Dex check followed by a Strength? Perception then Dex or Str? Acrobatics and Climb? I can easily see him having an average day where he really just fails half the tests. Even with bonuses for feats, he still is an old 5th level NPC character. He would still regularly fail the 3-4 tier DCs for the harder trials as well.

It is balanced for a party of characters to pass, but my reaction is to more my feeling of my character's contributions to the goal and even the gentle chiding of "you need to train more" rings false from an NPC that never needs to make a skill check to succeed at anything. Adding to that thought, all I could hope to do within the tests was match his perfection and I couldn't hope to do better than him at anything he presented.

4/5 5/55/55/5 ****

After running it the group had a good time playing in it, I did try to run Aeotsep less as "you need to work on that" and more "that was a unlucky angle, here are ways you can mitigate that though" (even though I failed at that goal in some instances) but I'm not sure I that played to them enjoying it.

At the end of the fight with Aramaya, when a PC ended it with a massive damage critical hit, I did have to wonder how I would handle it if either Aramaya was accidentally killed by a PC or if she accidentally killed a PC with her x3 weapon.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

It takes quite a bit of effort to kill someone with nonlethal damage by accident (though it can happen). It's only when someone takes more nonlethal damage than their maximum HP that they start taking lethal damage.

They fall unconscious when nonlethal damage exceeds current HP.

So, to hit someone dead with nonlethal, you need to do more nonlethal in one hit than the fraction needed to render them unconscious, plus their maximum HP, plus their constitution.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Also, with that particular enemy's feats you can choose to power attack to knock people back, which incurs the power attack penalty but not the extra damage.

Though my -1 will tell you it is completely possible to kill with non-lethal crits, it's more unlikely at higher levels than 1 or 2 (unless you're a 10 Con wizard, those can get crit killed non-lethally pretty far into their career)

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4

Well, accidents sometimes happen. :P

I think dealing lethal damage to Aramaya due to excessive nonlethal damage doesn't disqualify the PCs from the last trial. The same goes for her, though the monks would certainly feel mortified if their champion accidentally killed a PC (it's very unlikely, but it could happen).

Also, Joe is right that you can forego the damage from Power Attack after the results of the attack roll, so if you already know that you're critting someone who is close to being knocked unconscious, then is a good time to pull back and apply the Pushing Assault feat (if only to reduce the final damage).

5/5 5/55/55/5

I think there's a monk or two too many

The shaved female dwarf (explains the lack of beard...) just basically shows up and says hi

Itephta ... I completely lost track of.

not to mention a few more off screen ones. like deitha..

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Yeah, it doesn't really feel like you're making a meaningful choice of Sage candidates between those. You don't see enough of them to form an opinion.

Grand Lodge 2/5 *

Edit: oops, I missed that he was a Cult Leader, that makes the difference and negates all my complaints.

my first post:
I want to note that the 3-4 version of Tasutek has a bad skill block.

He has 27 too many skill points. In addition the Bluff, Disguise, Perception, and Stealth all exceed the skill caps to get to their level. In the case of stealth he's x2 over the cap once you factor his armor in.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I'm very surprised that there hasn't been more conversation about the 4 anti-paladins on high tier. 4 aura's of cowardice = -16 modifier on saving throws vs fear. Cause fear spells are pretty much guaranteed to go through, which takes characters out of combat for 1d4 rounds 4 times.

The tactics limit the use of channel (thankfully, since channel x4 would be a quick death, especially if everyone if cowering in the corner for d4 rounds).

Second, on the last fight, how is Tasutek handling heat, poison, and horrific appearance. Heat was mentioned earlier, but he doesn't seem to have anything that would let him handle the poison gas or his friend's appearance, so he would likely end up sick as well as the PC's.

4/5

Robert Thomson wrote:

I'm very surprised that there hasn't been more conversation about the 4 anti-paladins on high tier. 4 aura's of cowardice = -16 modifier on saving throws vs fear. Cause fear spells are pretty much guaranteed to go through, which takes characters out of combat for 1d4 rounds 4 times.

The tactics limit the use of channel (thankfully, since channel x4 would be a quick death, especially if everyone if cowering in the corner for d4 rounds).

Second, on the last fight, how is Tasutek handling heat, poison, and horrific appearance. Heat was mentioned earlier, but he doesn't seem to have anything that would let him handle the poison gas or his friend's appearance, so he would likely end up sick as well as the PC's.

Horrific Appearance takes a standard action to use. It is not always on.

Horrific Appearance (Su): All qlippoth have such horrific and mind-rending shapes that those who gaze upon them suffer all manner of ill effects. A qlippoth can present itself as a standard action to assault the senses of all living creatures within 30 feet. The exact effects caused by a qlippoth’s horrific appearance vary by the type of qlippoth. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the qlippoth’s Hit Dice + the qlippoth’s Charisma modifier): reduces or negates the effect. This ability is a mind-affecting gaze attack.

5/5 5/55/55/5

I would not say that the same ability stacked four times

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I would also rule that they are each from the same source, and do not stack.

2/5

andreww wrote:

A number of these tests can be trivialised by the use of magic which will be commonly available to level 3-7 PC's. How are people intending to handle someone who spider climbs up the column for example?

I havent yet decided whether I will treat it as "rewarding clever gameplay" and give them the success or "this is a test of your strength not your mind" and fail them.

I would be interested in other peoples views especially as I am running this in a week or so.

My group was going to do things like potions ect. Instead of telling yhem no i simply made it overly obvious that there actions were being disapproved of and reminded them that they want to have the best of relations. As they werent 100% diplomatic earlier this nonthreat worked (not that any of he dcs are too challenging). I also to further incentivizr i played up the honest accomplishments way more so by the third trial no one botherrd to attempt magic.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

BigNorseWolf wrote:
I would not say that the same ability stacked four times

That became a big debate yesterday. (I'd rule the same way if it were me.) There was enough fuzziness in it, it was a debate through, which is why I was surprised it didn't come up.

4/5 *

The qlippoth is in the water, which is perhaps cooler than the air temperature?

As for the aura of cowardice: witch hexes stack when they're from different witches, so my thinking is that the auras should stack as well? Although, I don't think I'd overuse the cause fear spells since it says they fight "shoulder to shoulder", which seems to imply melee (and channeling at the higher tier as instructed).

Tatsusek has a scroll of delay poison that he uses just before the PCs arrive, so he's OK on poison for the duration of combat. Even if the PCs surprise his familiar and kill it, he still knows trouble is coming.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Even witch hexes would not stack, as I'd consider them the same source. You can't stack two crushing despairs, no matter who casts them. Therefore, two evil eyes at AC or auras of cowardice would not stack.

4/5 *

Hmph, I could have sworn I remembered a big debate on hexes from different witches, but now I cannot find the right said thread.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah, I took a moment to look as well and couldn't find anything either.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

I'm with TOZ on this one.

If I'm wrong, though, I'll probably find out tonight - I'm GMing this for a table of players that includes my VC ...

4/5 *

Mulgar wrote:

Horrific Appearance takes a standard action to use. It is not always on.

Horrific Appearance (Su): All qlippoth have such horrific and mind-rending shapes that those who gaze upon them suffer all manner of ill effects. A qlippoth can present itself as a standard action to assault the senses of all living creatures within 30 feet. The exact effects caused by a qlippoth’s horrific appearance vary by the type of qlippoth. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the qlippoth’s Hit Dice + the qlippoth’s Charisma modifier): reduces or negates the effect. This ability is a mind-affecting gaze attack.

That is in the Bestiary, but the sheet included in the scenario only includes the following text:

Quote:
Horrific Appearance (Su) Any creature that witnesses a thognorok’s horrific appearance could find itself overwhelmed with revulsion at the qlippoth’s constantly sprouting and waving insectile legs, becoming sickened for 1d6 rounds (Will DC 13 negates). The save DC is Charisma-based.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Reviewing the rules for Horrific Appearance, it is a gaze attack, the rules for which state "Each opponent within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw each round at the beginning of his or her turn in the initiative order." The Qlippoth entry states the range as 30ft. So anyone within 30ft of the thognorok at the start of their turn must make the save. The standard action ability is an additional ability the creature can use.

4/5 *

OK, so it's a regular gaze attack, that can also be used actively as a standard action on its turn.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Gaze attacks traditionally don't have the "after a successful save you're immune for 24 hours" bit in it. So how does the dude cope?

5/5 5/55/55/5

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Ascalaphus wrote:
Gaze attacks traditionally don't have the "after a successful save you're immune for 24 hours" bit in it. So how does the dude cope?

He's a ravogag follower. I don't think you can drive him crazier.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

That works for me.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

As a Terry Pratchett fan, I was very sad that the monk sent to shepherd us through the trials did not have / use a broom :(

An all nuetral party using lots of ranged attacks, and bypassing the mine carts so we got to attack the anti-paladins from the back, from stealth, with haste, made mince meat of them. Their channels wound up doing trivial damage, even though the GM missed that they wouldn't all use them in the same round.

Str dumped bloat mage going toe to toe with a three attack per round creature with str drain poison was terrifying, even though I didn't fail a single save. Thankfully it did not have resist sonic.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Ran this today and had a lot of fun doing so. There are interesting role play opportunities with the monks, the tests are different enough not to get boring and quick enough not to drag out. The group was all 6th level. Halfling Cavalier on a wolf, Human Fighter, Human Cleric, and Tiefling Sorcerer.

I want to compliment the NPC builds. These were some of the more interesting NPCs mechanically that I can remember in a scenario. The fight in the 6th trial against a group of four proved challenging. Between Gliding Steps and Spring Attack, the group was somewhat confused at how she stayed so mobile, and Pushing Assault combined with Combat Reflexes meant she got plenty of attacks of opportunity off. I was only slightly disappointed that I could never get her into position to use Combat Patrol. There just wasn't enough room on the platform. With only two melee characters attacking her, though, she didn't really need it. She didn't manage to knock anyone off the platform (came close when she crit the fighter), but she did knock the fighter out... Twice.

The Anti-Paladins had interesting builds (kudos on using a teamwork feat) and tactics, but, sadly, with only 3 of them after the four player adjust, they only lasted a couple of rounds.

Tasutek proved challenging as well. The Enthrall was a wasted round, as everyone made the save easily, but I had some fun with it as he continued his evil villain monologue about how they should join Rovagug or be devoured by him through the whole turn. Once he came down to fight, he was putting some pretty good damage out, and Fervor kept him conscious a couple of rounds longer than he otherwise would have been. I even got a Vital Strike in, since ultimately the party was afraid to enter the water and he ended up moving up to the cavalier. Fervor is a very strong mechanic. Even without Bull Strength available, being able to drop a Greater Stunning Barrier on himself before attempting the Enthrall, then a Divine Favor on the round he moved up to attack the Cavalier helped a lot. The Cavalier ended up sickened from the Qlippoth, then Stunned after hitting Tasutek. Having the Cavalier Stunned for a round kept Tasutek in the fight longer. Being able to hit himself with a Cure Serious after the Sorcerer threw an Acid Bolt (energy type changed Lightning Bolt) at him kept him up another round after that, while still attacking and doing damage. He just missed staying conscious long enough to use his Cure Moderate Wounds. The Qlippoth ended up not being a major factor, other than the Horrifying Appearance. It was caught in the Acid Bolt, which it failed the save against, so it still took decent damage even after its resistance. With the 4 player adjustment, it wasn't advanced, so the Fighter finished it off the next round. It only got one attack in and never got a full round attack off.

For a single enemy and a two enemy fight, the trial and the boss fight were both pretty challenging thanks to the builds.


G-Zeus wrote:
andreww wrote:
A number of these tests can be trivialised by the use of magic which will be commonly available to level 3-7 PC's. How are people intending to handle someone who spider climbs up the column for example?
My group was going to do things like potions ect. Instead of telling yhem no i simply made it overly obvious that there actions were being disapproved of and reminded them that they want to have the best of relations.

Just a note that the module undermines this path. The monks have their own champion in trial #6 using potions to gain a boost.

I have to say that as a player, if I tried to use magic and was "frowned upon" only to see their own monks using magic for a trial, I'd be pissed. Not pissed in character -- pissed as a player at the table. That's pretty unfair.

Of course, there is the old fallback that maybe she used her own potions out of view of the characters, so the issue shouldn't come up. But then, the players should be afforded the same opportunity to gain magical boosts surreptitiously.

I think we can see from some of the posts in this thread that the trials are already viewed as inherently unfair (I don't agree with that thinking, but others are entitled to think/feel differently), so I don't think anything should be done to make the players feel it's any more unfair than it already is. Even on a metagame basis -- if you're forcing the player's hand on something, such as mandating no magic or no taking 10 -- that could sour people pretty badly if they then read the module and see that none of that is IN the module, and in fact the module opposes it (the monks use magic) and the module author opposes it (he allows taking 10, as mentioned in this topic).

Besides, if a player wants to expend the PC's hard earned cash on consumables like potions and scrolls for boosts, those are items that won't be available later! That should make for more challenging fights! And isn't that one of the great challenges in a game like this? Do I use this now and know I will succeed, or do I save it for later for something unknown?

Having said that, I would agree that using magic in such a way as to thumb your nose at the meaning or intention of a trial -- such as using flight or teleportation to bypass climbing the spire altogether -- would definitely be frowned upon.

I'll post more in a bit. I'm prepping this module for the first time and have some issues that haven't been mentioned in this topic yet.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

I think there's a monk or two too many

The shaved female dwarf (explains the lack of beard...) just basically shows up and says hi

Itephta ... I completely lost track of.

Yes, I have a feeling that there was a last-minute addition of characters simply to fill out the candidates for the faction mission. Maybe the module author could respond to that?

I say this because I found some... oddities in the text, which is throwing me off. First odd thing:

Quote:
Itephta is a young, mild-mannered Garundi man who listens attentively to the PCs and then asks Menkha about the relic sought by the Pathfinder Society. The Ouat leader [Itephta] confirms the relic’s presence within the monastery vaults, and says the Ouat monks are willing to part with it if Itephta so decides.

So... the weirdness there is that "Itephta will give the relic if Itephta so decides." Like he's talking about himself in the 3rd person. This is doubly strange because Itephta is a human who apparently is now in the position to decide the fate of the dwarven relic, while a dwarf with that heritage is sitting right there! That seems like a huge act of disrespect that the monks wouldn't do. So I suspect there was a name change or find/replace going on, and really the sentence was supposed to be something like this: "Itephta will give the relic if Menkha so decides."

You know, so that nobody is disrespecting anyone. And also so Itephta isn't a douchebag who refers to himself in the 3rd person. :P

This read of things is bolstered again on page 11, where we have this sentence:

Quote:
Itephta also provides them a phylactery of faithfulness (in Subtier 6–7, she also gives them an incense of meditation).

The bolding is mine. Here we see that Itephta, a Garundi man, is referred to as a she. This further makes me think that at one time, Itephta maybe didn't exist and all of this came from Menkha. Itephta is also the only one to not get a picture.

I don't know how legal it is to completely excise an NPC from the story in PFS, but it would certainly streamline and remove confusion from the players if Itephta didn't exist. Menkha should be the prime mover, and Aeotsep the trialmaster. A smaller cast of characters by 1, and maybe even what the module originally had?

Sovereign Court 3/5 ****

outshyn wrote:

First odd thing:

Quote:
Itephta is a young, mild-mannered Garundi man who listens attentively to the PCs and then asks Menkha about the relic sought by the Pathfinder Society. The Ouat leader [Itephta] confirms the relic’s presence within the monastery vaults, and says the Ouat monks are willing to part with it if Itephta so decides.

Actually, Menkha is the Ouat leader. The Ouat are a subsect of Dwarven monks at the monastery. Itepha is the leader of the monastery, but Menkha is the leader of the dwarven sect, who are the ones who are in possession of the Sky Key component.


Thanks! That makes more sense.

Next problem. From the rules for monster's web effects:

Quote:
A creature can move across its own web at its climb speed

...except thognorok have no climb speed. So they're climbing like the rest of us -- quarter speed, on their own web. So each 5' square is 20' of movement for them. Granted, they don't get stuck like the rest of us would, but still, that puts a huge kibosh on web activity. For example, the thognorok cannot fight people on shore then do a 5' step retreat onto its web. It's a 20' retreat for that one square, so it provokes attacks of opportunity.

How did you GMs handle that? I assume it was handled by simply not being aware of this rule and having the thognorok move with no slowdown, as was the case when I played it. However, maybe there are other things going on that I'm not aware of? If you're fully cognizant of the limitations of this web, what did you do about it? My thought is just to get the creature on land ASAP, and write off the web in the water as a distraction that isn't used. (To be honest, this is how I've seen it play out anyway -- nobody dares to jump into the water/webbing anyway, so it's just an unused area of the map.)

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4

outshyn wrote:
Yes, I have a feeling that there was a last-minute addition of characters simply to fill out the candidates for the faction mission. Maybe the module author could respond to that?

Alright, I can add some insight regarding this matter.

The cast of characters was established pretty early on, and we wanted to populate the monastery with candidates, that's correct. In all honesty, I would have loved to give more screen time to Betrag and Dhiara, but, you know, wordcount. I do think Aeotsep works well in the module, and Aramaya is mostly a combat encounter, though you can nominate her if you like.

Since Itephta and Menkha are already part of Golarion canon, I didn't feel comfortable appropriating them for use in the Jeweled Sages metaplot, so as not to disrupt current canon, hence a new cast of characters to serve as candidates. However, Menkha and Itephta are some of the main characters in Tar Kuata, and it would be strange if they were absent from the adventure. After all, they run the place, and hierarchy dictates that they should be the ones making the decisions about the Sky Key.

I understand that it gets a bit crowded, but in a way I grew fond of the notion that the PCs are getting to know many of the monks. Yet, sure, they're all Iroran monks, and it can feel a little bland... it puts an extra pressure on the GM to roleplay them differently enough to make each stand out, I suppose.

Anyway, that was the thought process behind it.

Quote:
Itephta also provides them a phylactery of faithfulness (in Subtier 6–7, she also gives them an incense of meditation).
The bolding is mine. Here we see that Itephta, a Garundi man, is referred to as a she. This further makes me think that at one time, Itephta maybe didn't exist and all of this came from Menkha. Itephta is also the only one to not get a picture.

Well... this was just a typo.

Oh, and I have no idea who the next Jeweled Sage is going to be. ;)


Thanks Pedro!

Grand Lodge 2/5 Venture-Captain, Russia—Moscow

So how does the Horrificappearance work after all? Is it an automatic effect 'on sight'? Or is it an activated standart action gaze attack?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

"A creature with a gaze attack can actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range. That opponent must attempt a saving throw but can try to avoid this as described above. Thus, it is possible for an opponent to save against a creature's gaze twice during the same round, once before the opponent's action and once during the creature's turn."

Kyton subtype in Bestiary calls horrific appearance a gaze attack, so the answer is: both!

4/5

On the Enlightened Ambassador boon from the chronicle sheet : am I reading it correctly to think it can be used to ignore invisibility for one round?

2/5

I'm looking at the final boss, and as a player of Warpriests itself, I found it quite surprising that he doesn't have Sacred Weapon listed.

Now I understand that warpriests are a pain and a half to run as a BBEG anyway, but he actually did the thing Cult Leaders need to do and buy Weapon Focus, which qualifies him as far as I can see? He can sacred weapon anything he has a

This does make it a very dangerous boss if he is able to set up a sneak attack....

Is leaving out Sacred Weapon as an ability on purpose or an oversight?


RealAlchemy wrote:
On the Enlightened Ambassador boon from the chronicle sheet : am I reading it correctly to think it can be used to ignore invisibility for one round?

No, but yes, kinda. It grants you the ability to ignore concealment entirely. However, that doesn't mean you see invisible creatures, and you do not ignore their invisible state. You still cannot see them, and you still must figure out which square is the correct square to target. Here is what the rules say about invisibility:

Core Rulebook wrote:
A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something’s there” but can’t see it or target it accurately with an attack. It’s practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature’s location with a Perception check. Even once a character has pinpointed the square that contains an invisible creature, the creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance).

So... the Enlightened Ambassador boon will "turn off" the miss chance, but it does nothing to help you pinpoint an invisible creature's square, nor does it let you "see" the invisible creature. You'll need to get over those hurdles before you can take advantage of Enlightened Ambassador. But if you DO get past those hurdles, then you have 1 round of ignoring concealment, making your character awesome.

SanderJK wrote:
I understand that warpriests are a pain and a half to run as a BBEG anyway, but he actually did the thing Cult Leaders need to do and buy Weapon Focus, which qualifies him as far as I can see?

I don't think the full stat block has every class detail. If you are clear about what the Cult Leader archetype takes away, and how the class works in such a changed state, then I do not see why you would hold back. The class is documented and this bad guy seems to follow the rules for it. However, you cannot ignore the tactics section of his stat block. It says:

Test of Tar Kuata wrote:
During Combat Tasutek uses his enthrall ability to stop the PCs in their tracks, giving him a moment to cast spells that augment his combat abilities and move to a more advantageous position. When possible, he flanks a target with the thognorok. He uses his fervor ability each round to grant himself greater combat prowess.

So if you are truly running a normal Pathfinder Society game, following Pathfinder Society rules, you must start with Enthrall, and you must use Fervor. If that interferes with his ability to use Sacred Weapon, then it does. If you can use Sacred Weapon and still obey the "During Combat" tactics text, then that seems 100% fair to me.

My memory of this encounter (and I may have even posted it previously here) is that the final encounter is pretty meh. Ah, yes, just scrolled back up -- the thognorok has no climb speed, and cannot operate on its own web properly. So by the rules the encounter is already nerfed. So if you have a way to have it not suck, that might be good.

3/5 5/5 *

Couple of questions on Aramaya: if she uses combat patrol on her turn, she is able to move during her attacks of opportunity.

Is she able to use the ki ability granted by her feat Gliding Steps during this AOO movement, or only normal movement on her turn? Typically spending ki is a swift action, so even if she does this during her attacks of opportunity she should only be able to gain this benefit once during the round, right?

If she is able to push someone back using her attacks of opportunity, does that end the PC's turn in the square into which they were pushed?

I think she has a really cool build and I'm excited for that combat, but I also don't want this to be a case of GM fiat allowing her to be incredibly strong.

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