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My PCs attacked the Seven's Sawmill last night. They did this at night and not on Oathday, so by the building's description the only cultists/mill workers on duty were the night shift maintaining the waterwheels in the sublevel. These they summarily dispatched when their attempt to bribe them to go away didn't work (and resulted in their described reaction to the PCs not leaving when asked) before proceeding to thoroughly loot the otherwise shut down mill - including, of course, the office. So they have the ledger and I rolled four days to decode it. Critically, they also burned the collection of skinned faces and neglected to dispose of the bodies.
Of course, Ironbriar is more than capable of casting locate object, so now I'm deciding what course of action he should take. (I take it as a given that he can acquire a wand of that spell and case the whole city if necessary, given his connections.)
First, round up his cultists and attack the PCs at night. This seems the most obvious solution, and of course is also the one they're anticipating. But until they decode the ledger, they don't know who's behind all this, and they destroyed the other evidence, which leads us to the second option: The city watch.
The PCs broke into the sawmill, murdered the workers, and stole everything that wasn't nailed down (including a few woodworking tools). The person who owns that mill is a justice of the peace. Should I have Magnimar's guards summarily arrest them at Ironbriar's behest? Surely he could make that happen, but then again it has serious potential to be campaign-ending; if they don't reveal Ironbriar's guilt at their trial (which he would obviously recuse himself from, as he's the victim of their crime - and a guilty verdict is still assured, since they obviously did it) then they'll be sent to the Hells and that's that.
Ideas or advice? Anything I missed?
Ironbriar is unlikely to want to utilize the regular town guards and go through a trial - he can't be certain of exactly WHAT they know, and a trial is too likely to reveal inconvenient information.
Ironbriar is likely to want to handle the situation leave all the PCs dead, and THEN accuse them of the crimes (along with resisting arrest).
So, it sounds like your "round up his cultists and attack the PCs at night" sounds like the plan. And perhaps a fire. As in force the PCs to have to deal with an burning Inn fill of patrons while cultists run around chopping people up.
A couple of Resist Fire, Communals (and other buffs) should give the cultists a nice edge, even with the PCs being "ready" for an attack - heck, attack during the day so that the Inn is full.
Oh and try to make sure that they know who the other guests are. 'Cuz knowing the name of that dead guy is much worse.
First off, I'd observe the pc's have done exactly what the AP expects them to do - break into the sawmill. They are new to the city without any connections or method to get any kind of legal sanction so they don't have a lot of choices. The group here appears to have chosen a time to minimize civilian impact - they don't know the sawmill is NOT a legitimate business - for all they know there may be innocent workers and customers in the building during the day.
So in that case how should you expect the pc's to handle the consequences - as described it does not seem the pc's left any clues that would lead back to them unless powerful divination magic is used. Is it reasonable for your players to have thought of that? Is this a situation they've encountered before? Are they familiar with Pathfinder magic? Should they be expected to assume the authorities of Magnimar would use magic to find the attackers? These are at some level metagame concerns but I think they are important to think about as a decision on the next story elements is made. Could you create a justification for Ironbriar to unleash all of Magnimar's justice system on the pc's? Sure, but would that be fun? Should the players "suffer" that consequence?
In my view, Ironbriar will do everything he can to keep the guards out of it. That journal is a death sentence - he can't take the chance it will fall into any hands but his own. He can hope his cipher will keep it obscure until he finds it but that is a time measured in days, so he has to hurry.
Yes, locate object is an answer. Did the pc's liquidate any treasure - Ironbriar is well connected - if any of his own possessions hit the market, he should know. I suggest he use criminal elements - night scale assassins (see magnimar sourcebook.) If that fails, he, his cultists and the Scarecrow try a brute force assault. He should have access to faceless stalkers also. Keep in mind, Xanesha is motivated to protect him (like a beloved pet) given how useful he is for her mission. So she will lend him resources, perhaps even participate herself in an attempt to recover the journal. It might be fun to have her use her considerable charm and illusion powers to confuse, seduce, charm or persuade the pc's to part with the journal. Or to otherwise reveal themselves.
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My players are very familiar with the Pathfinder rules, and immediately went to locate object as a potential problem for them before I'd even had time to think of it. But I don't think they're thinking of the authorities, but rather their targets - they're familiar with the rules, but our other GMs rarely involve civilian authorities as anything but quest-givers.
I should mention that one thing they also did was after finding the deed to Foxglove Manor and the townhouse in the hidden safe, they immediately sold both buildings, claiming that the adventure had left them undergeared. So they're involved in all sorts of shady nonsense even before the sawmill. :P
How can they sell something (Foxglove Manor) which by the deed itself reverts to another party (the Brotherhood of the Seven) in a few years' time?
Ideas or advice? Anything I missed?
Just something to keep in mind - Ironbriar isn't thinking 100% clearly right now because he's completely enraptured with Xanesha, and her priorities do not include his welfare beyond his value to her. As such, he might not always make the best decisions for his own survival or success and if Xanesha thinks he's more a liability than an asset, she'll set him up to fail or even kill him herself. Just keep that angle in mind... she's the big boss, not him.
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How can they sell something (Foxglove Manor) which by the deed itself reverts to another party (the Brotherhood of the Seven) in a few years' time?With great difficulty. I only let them get away with the townhouse (the adventure says that the legal papers for it are in there too).
Just something to keep in mind - Ironbriar isn't thinking 100% clearly right now because he's completely enraptured with Xanesha, and her priorities do not include his welfare beyond his value to her. As such, he might not always make the best decisions for his own survival or success and if Xanesha thinks he's more a liability than an asset, she'll set him up to fail or even kill him herself. Just keep that angle in mind... she's the big boss, not him.
Ideas or advice? Anything I missed?
While true, charm isn't dominate. He's enamored with her, but the spell can't make him forget all his own priorities, and he knows exactly what decoding that ledger means for him. That alone is enough to make him take some fairly substantial risks, because the alternative is certain downfall from his position at least and death at worst.
So my suggestion here depends MASSIVELY on how much set-up you did with Ironbriar before the Sawmill, because if run exactly by the book, that would be all of zero introduction for him.
Do the players know who he is? Are they aware he exists at all? Did they acquire any information from the Sawmill?
As for Ironbriar, I see him doing two things: 1. Accelerating his plans and moving the remaining guild somewhere new, and more hidden, and 2. Hitting the players hard and fast, likely framing them so they go down as criminals while hopefully being killed in the process.
He has resources, he has clout, and most importantly, Charmed or no, he's an intelligent guy. He's been dealing with the Red Mantis recently (connections to Crimson Throne), and using them to take out the party would be a solid choice for him.
My suggestion? He has 4 days, so the first thing he would do is consult Xanesha on how to proceed. Next, I think he'd know the players found the Ledger, and use that against them. Have the Ledger mention some other location, possibly a safehouse or hideout for the Cult that you know the players will head to. Knowing that lead is where they group will head next, Ironbriar could have some Red Mantis assassins and a few remaining Cultists ambush the players there, while himself retreating to stay with Xanesha and work on a new plan.
Bear in mind, you and I may think very differently, because my train of thought for how to run enemy NPCs is "What would these people realistically do in reaction to this situation", while you as a DM may be thinking "How can I get the party to fight and defeat Ironbriar ASAP".
But I say, always drag out a good story when you've got the opportunity.
He definitely knows the players found the ledger, but mentioning a safehouse would pale in comparison to mentioning that a high court justice is plotting to kill the mayor, which it explicitly does. He cannot afford to wait for them to decode it and hope that they go after his safehouses personally rather than going to the authorities. The adventure is quite explicit on that point too - that journal falling into Magnimar's official hands is certain death for him and he knows it. I'm not rushing for them to fight and defeat Ironbriar ASAP, but what he would realistically do does not include waiting around for them to turn him in to Grobaras.
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Sorry for the bump, but I'm running Runelords a second time with a new group. The second group has done the exact same thing as the first, except upon realizing that the stuff they stole is vulnerable to being traced, and knowing that unlike the first group they don't have anyone who can break the ledger's cypher, they plan to go to the Pathfinders at Heidmarch Manor and ask them to decode the ledger and see if they can hole up there. I have the map of the manor from Shattered Star, so I can work with this, but I don't know that the Skinsaw Cult would be brazen enough to directly attack the Pathfinders, and if they did, they'd likely be cut down without the PCs' intervention, the Society being what it is. So the operative question is whether or not Lady Heidmarch would be interested in some random adventurers showing up at her door with a coded book and a story about skinned faces in a sawmill.
Hmm.. well, I will point out something that I think people overlooked in your first scenario.. since the first party burned some of the evidence, it is *possible* that Ironbriar thinks the ledger was burned as well. He doesn't know *why* the mill was attacked and "robbed", so he may not be thinking about the ledger that way. But in the later case, if the PCs did not destroy the evidence, then he's quite sure he needs to find that ledger soon.
Anyway, as far as the Pathfinders go, the PCs could be seeking to join the organization (the Faction Guide presents the Pathfinders and several other organizations for non-PFS use .. though with a similar Prestige/Fame mechanic for benefits earned as members). The manor doesn't necessarily have a small army of Pathfinders on-hand at all times... likely, the local agents are on missions seeking "stuff" and the manor is mostly staffed with just "staff" (teams of Lackeys and such from Ultimate Campaign, for example). The Pathfinders would likely be VERY interested in, and VERY willing to trade decoding services for, information about the Thassilonian sites the PCs have visited. First-hand accounts of exploring the Catacombs of Wrath and Thistletop's hidden inner chambers (as well as possibly the Vault of Greed and the additional catacombs under Chopper's Isle if you're using the side adventures from Wayfinder #7) would be quite a good trade in their eyes, I think.
Also, as I mentioned in another thread, if you have the Undead Unleashed sourcebook, there's
If the Pathfinders don't pan out, if you're using the Contacts system from Ultimate Campaign, the PCs could always "have a friend" who can help with the deciphering. If that friend figures out what the ledger is, that could lead to the friend bolting to the PCs for protection.. or being killed by the cultists bent on recovering the ledger (that last may not sit well.. it could seem like punishing the PCs for using the Contacts, so I'd recommend a bonus of some sort for avenging the contact later).
Even if the Contacts idea doesn't pan out, seeking out a shady information broker to do the deciphering could lead to some of the same actions.. and killing the broker to recover the ledger could serve as a warning as to how much this is "played for keeps".
Then there's
The Magnimar supplement, as mentioned by Latrecis previously, is highly recommended as a resource for expanding this section of the AP.
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I have the Magnimar supplement and am heavily using it. My PCs do not need anyone to bail them out; if the entire cult comes down on them, they will kill them all. It's just a matter of how much other stuff the sorceress blows up while doing it. x_x My problem here is that they're trying to involve the Pathfinders specifically to keep themselves safe. You're right that the Pathfinders would be willing to trade Thassilonian secrets for decoding services, and I won't deny that to them if they offer that trade, but they'll have to think of it.
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If I'm Ironbriar, the most important thing is to get the ledger back. I think everyone is wrong to poo-poo the use of legitimate law enforcement to get it- once I have it back, I can make any claim I want as to what's in it. Ironbriar is a genius for having both legitimate and underworld means to exert his power. He's also genius in that he can use his legitimacy to shape the story of events (As he tells them to the rest of Magnimar)
In a highstakes game of he said, they said- Ironbriar has the upper hand of being an established authority figure in a profession tasked with doing what the party is doing. The party might have proof, but Ironbriar can manufacture proof. So if I were him:
I would open an investigation, lead by some lacky on the watch loyal to me, into the B&E/murders at the Seven's Sawmill. I'd make sure there was no way to connect me to the sawmill, even if it means the lacky is covering it up or overlooking it. I'd send another group of the watch to retrieve the ledger- it is, as they are claiming, evidence into the serial murders going on, and the watch should be investigating, not some vigilante group. This is perfectly reasonable action for the watch to take, even if Ironbriar weren't guilty. Turf wars are common in law enforcement (or so I hear). I would also, if I haven't been smart enough to do so already, maneuver myself into the position as being the Justiciar in charge of the serial murder investigation, so that when the ledger is retrieved, it makes it's way to me.
Before sending, the group to retrieve the ledger, I'd make sure there was an independent trail of (fake)evidence that I feed to this group that leads them to the Pathfinders having the ledger, to cover the Locate Object spell and not tip either the party or the Pathfinders off.
Separately, I'd have the cult do the gruntwork of trailing the party and finding out where they're staying, etc. The guard can do this as well, but the pretext has to be investigating the party's involvement with the B&E/murders at the sawmill, and is more likely, unless handled correctly, to tip his hand. Having both sides tailing the party seems like the all or nothing I would utilize to get that ledger back, if I were he.
I don't have the Magnimar Suppliment, so I don't know what else he could bring to bear on the party. My main point, is that using the watch to facilitate getting the ledger back is not an insane or unhinged thing for him to do. How many IRL politicians/etc., abuse their power and get away with it. Often the flashy all-too-visible villain is as untouchable as the hidden one, and it's their status that makes them so.
I think a lot depends then on how open the PCs are about how they obtained the ledger and what risks there may be. The Heidmarchs are likely to be more accepting of someone who honestly tells them what the risks are, and may turn hostile to a group that tries to use them without being up-front.
Bear in mind that it would take 30-40 castings of Locate Object to search the whole of Magnimar, plus a whole lot more if the PCs leave town. So he can only really do this with a 22Kgp wand and quite a bit of time, or a good idea where they are. And all it does is indicate the direction, so homing in on the thing will be hard.
As for the Pathfinders, I expect someone would be happy to look at it, if only for their own curiosity. Assuming they have nothing else to do, of course. What they then do with the information is up to their own ethics and motivations.
The book doesn't say whether magic (Comprehend Languages, Tongues, etc) helps in decoding the book. Which might make a difference about whether the PFs would want to be involved. This post has some ideas, but that's it.