Is there any way to gain feats for your Familiar?


Advice


I'm looking for ways that a Familiar or an Improved Familiar can gain more feats.

Also is there a way an Improved Familiar can get more uses per day of his spell-like abilities? Is there a feat for this?

I've got a crazy idea for a character, but it revolves around getting more uses of SLA's and possibly more feats for a familiar.


Be an Eldritch Guardian Fighter. They share their combat feats with their familiar.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Be an Eldritch Guardian Fighter. They share their combat feats with their familiar.

Yep, that's going to be part of the build, but what I'm needing is non-combat feat choices for the Imp.Familiar.


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There's a witch archetype that can trade in feats to grant their familiar feats. You could also check with your GM about using Recharge Innate Msgic on your familiar. But no, there isn't really a way to give them more SLA uses per day.

There's also a wizard archetype that grants its familiar feats, along with a different BAB/save progression.

Scarab Sages

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There's a witch archetype that lets you grant the feats you would normally gain to your familiar. Ah, here it is: Beast Bonded.

Edit: Pseudo-ninja'd


Spirit Binder is the wizard archetype QuidEst referred to.

Share Spells with Paragon Surge could add a feat too, if temporarily.


Wow guys! Thanks! Now I've got way more options & ideas tearing me in different directions than I originally intended.

I'm looking at the Brownie for an Improved Familiar BTW, and was hoping I could get his Dimension Door ability 1/day increased in uses.

Grand Lodge

The Valet archetype will let them pick up your Teamwork feats.


Core Rulebook, p82 wrote:

Familiar Basics: Use the basic statistics for a creature

of the familiar’s kind as described in the Pathfinder RPG
Bestiary, but with the following changes.
Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of
Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s
normal HD total, whichever is higher.
Bestiary 1, p296 wrote:

Next, give the creature additional feats. Creatures gain

one feat at 1 Hit Die and one additional feat for every 2 Hit
Dice above 1.
Most additional feats should be focused on
increasing the creature’s combat abilities, but metamagic
feats and skill feats are also possible choices depending
on the creature’s role.

Basically, when you get a feat, so does your familiar.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No Familiars catagorically do not gain HD or feats when you level up, and that is clearly not what the material you quote says

Silver Crusade

Writer wrote:
Core Rulebook, p82 wrote:


Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of
Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s
normal HD total, whichever is higher.
Basically, when you get a feat, so does your familiar.

Unfortunately that is not the case. The section on familiars is referring to things like sleep spells etc. The familiar does NOT gain actual hit dice.


Hmm, I double-checked both the bestiary and core rulebook and can't find any grounds to your claim. I did notice the iconic witch familiar only has one feat, but then again society isn't know for proper RAW interpretations.

What do you have to support your claim?

Edit: I guess the question is now; is gaining a feat an effect related to HD?

Silver Crusade

Writer wrote:

What do you have to support your claim?

Look at the table for advancing the familiar. Note that they never gain hit dice. Compare this to the table for advancing an Animal Companion which DOES gain hit dice.


no, they don't get feats

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2oajv?Do-familiars-get-feats


The FIRST paragraph in the Familiar section has this:

PRD wrote:
A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar.

The familiar doesn't get extra animal skill points or improved base saves as the master levels up. It uses either its own (which NEVER improves on its own) or it uses the master's. Whichever is better.

The same is applied to feats. Except the familiar rules don't have anything to say about feats (except for those Familiar feats that can be swapped out with the familiar's base feats), so they don't get new ones as the master levels up.

The "effects related to number of Hit Dice" simply refer to effects being thrown at the familiar that are dependent on how many hit dice it has, such as sleep, color spray, detect alignment spells.

If you do a search on the forums for "Familars feats HD" you'd find a general consensus. the '+' sign doesn't seem to be working as of late.


Number of Feats is not an 'effect related to number of Hit Dice'; it is part of character progression. It is no more granted by this note than are HP, Saves or BAB (all of which are specifically called out as part of familiars).

Similarly, the familiar does not get the stat bump every 4 HD.


Thank you, Nicholas, for providing evidence of the mass consensus against no feats for familiars. While I find the lack of hard evidence depressing, arguing against the vast majority will not prove anything (for or against) this ruling.

@ Eigengrau: Every DM I have played with so far has allowed me to take feats for my familiar as I level, according to the above mentioned rules. Ask your GM what his opinion is, and go from there.

Take everything on these boards with a grain of salt. This is the internet, and people will go above and beyond to shove their opinion down your throat as fact.

@ everyone else: sorry for bringing up a dead horse. I'll let you rule your boards now


If you go Improved Familiar: Homunculus, you can give it feats by spending gold. Upgrade its native hit die (at 2,000 gp each), and for every 2 HD increase, get a feat.

/cevah


A half-elf can Share Spells Paragon Surge.

A few magic items give feats. When in a wayfinder, some deep red spheres give Improved Unarmed Strike and incandescent blue spheres give Blind-Fight.

The Exchange

Be sure to check out the shaman's Mammoth true spirit ability

Megafauna Companion (Su):

The shaman’s spirit animal transforms into a megafauna animal companion (Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook 51), using the shaman’s shaman level as her effective druid level. The shaman must choose an arsinoitheriumB2, a mastodon, a megalocerosB2, or another mammalian megafauna that has animal companion statistics. It retains its Intelligence score and the special abilities it gains from the spirit animal class feature, but it also has the statistics and abilities of an animal companion. If the animal companion is dismissed, lost, or dies, it can be replaced in the same way as a normal spirit animal.

Now its a familiar and an animal companion; albeit, it won't kick in until 16th level. Combined with the other suggestions mentioned (valet archetype, improved familiar, etc.) and you can max the number of feats it gets and get a dynamo-dino to boot.

Or if Valet isn't you flavor, you can save up for
a saddle. You'll have to go for the more exotic pricing than the base cost shown.

Horsemaster's Saddle (Ultimate Equipment pg. 304):

Aura faint transmutation; CL 5th Slot none; Price 12,000 gp; Weight 5 lbs.
This ornate military saddle, tooled with an elaborate equine motif, grants the mount a +5 competence bonus on Acrobatics checks and the mount’s rider a +5 competence bonus on Ride checks. In addition, the mount gains the benefits of any teamwork feats possessed by the rider.


So could i go eldritch guardian 2 lvls then wizard then eldritch knight ... I could use eld heritage to get be of familiar higher since eld knight doesnt increase familiar lvls.

This may be the best way of useing the shadow drake as a combat viable companion.


What feats would be most useful for a familiar? I was considering power attack dazing assault.


My original idea was to get a psuedo-humanoid type of improved familiar (arms/legs etc...) and grant him my Combat feats by way of 2 levels of Eldritch Guardian.

The Brownie was my first choice, and thought I'd try to find a way to increase his uses of Dimension Door 1/day and thought I could give him the Dimensional Agility style feats. However I can't find ways to increase his Dimension Door ability.

Next I thought well if he was smaller and could share my square, and if we both had that Dimensional Feat chain, and I could take him with me when I used Dimension Door, we'd be able to "BAMF" like Nightcrawler. However I really don't think that's allowed.

So then I thought about just using him with high critical threat weapon like a Rapier, grant him W.Finesse, W. Focus, and Fencing Grace, I'd need to get him W.Proficiency Rapier though. Also with picking up Combat Reflexes, Outflank and Paired Opportunists, two-weapon fighting etc... I'd really be increasing the number of attacks per round and thereby increasing the chances of extra Attacks of Opportunity from the team work feats.

Since he'd be humanoid in body stature, I thought about maybe getting him a Permanent Enlarge Person spell to make him Small, Halfling sized. Pass him off as a halfling or Gnome. Then even if I didn't increase his size, he'd still benefit from extra looted magic items we sell off, Rings/Cloak/Bracers etc... or just make him custom fit armor & weapons.

He'd be destroyed most likely in melee though. So then I thought about taking a Sprite and going Ranged Combat instead. The Sprite could stay in my Square and fire her bow, while I fired mine. With the archery themed Teamwork feats we'd both get an extra ranged attack each round. Throw in Paired Opportunists and Improved Snapshot and it'd be awesome.

However now that I think about all of this, I'd be either burning up feats or having to take certain classes just to get a familiar and the extra attacks. I think it'd be easier to just get the Leadership feat and a Cohort instead.


I like the shadow drake and it be cool to make it combat viable... Using spells and feats.

Sprite with ranged attacks could b powerful get a wand of gravity bow so on I'd prob go stait fighter for that for wp focus wp speciality use magic device for a few buffs

Lantern Lodge

Get a homuncolus, spend 38k to give it 19 HD, and Viola! You have a custom familiar with 9 feats you can choose :).

Now combine that with eldritch guardian...

Lantern Lodge

addendum: requires craft construct feat


FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Get a homuncolus, spend 38k to give it 19 HD, and Viola! You have a custom familiar with 9 feats you can choose :).

Now combine that with eldritch guardian...

Now with all those extra HD, does it gain in size? I'd not want it to be larger than a halfling if I could choose that.


Basic Modifications states: Because a construct’s size is limited, a Hit Dice modification cannot increase its size. Therefore Hit Dice modification can never increase the base construct’s Hit Dice beyond 50% of its total HD.

However, no rule states the base HD must be what is in the Bestiary. Especially the Homunculus, which gives rules for non-standard ones.

/cevah


I'm curious on some things if I Modified/Upgraded the HD on a Homunculus, normally your familiar uses your BAB & HD, and 1/2 your HP's, if the Homunculus's was better do you use that instead? Does it increase as you level w/out having to upgrade him with crafting again?

This is an intriguing idea now, making a little mini-me to flank with, give him a Voice to use wands/scrolls and a Valet archetype for teamwork feats & potential crafting minion.


SRD

Familiar Basics:
Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.

Hit Points: The familiar has half the master's total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice.

Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons. Damage equals that of a normal creature of the familiar's kind.

Saving Throws: For each saving throw, use either the familiar's base save bonus (Fortitude +2, Reflex +2, Will +0) or the master's (as calculated from all his classes), whichever is better. The familiar uses its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn't share any of the other bonuses that the master might have on saves.

Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.

BAB = Masters BAB, modify by own stats
HD = Best of Masters, Own
HP = 1/2 masters
Save = Best of Masters, Own, modified by own stats

/cevah


What kind of gear can u equip a familiar.. If there tiny..

Lantern Lodge

Magical gear adapts to the size of it's wielder?


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This is not in the rules, but I don't think it would unreasonable for the GM to allow you to use the Improved Familiar feat to give your regular familiar more hit dice.


Duncan888 wrote:
What kind of gear can u equip a familiar.. If there tiny..

There was a section somewhere either in the Familiar rules or in the Magic Items rules that told about what magic item slots can be used on your familiar.

The Exchange

Eldritch Guardian with Dervish Dance and a Fighting Familiar!
Half Elf
Improved Familiar lets me get a High-Dex familiar that is great for combat (Shadow Drake or Nuglub Gremlin) and equip them with a tiny weapon
Cavalier 4 (Emissary, Daring Champion) / Brawler 1 (Mutagenic Mauler) / Fighter 2 (Eldritch Guardian) / Barbarian 1 (Savage Technologist) / Ulfen Guard 3
This build has very good HP & BAB, which makes my fewer familiars better.
1—Weapon Finesse (actually swashbuckler version)
1 [race]—Skill Focus: Knowledge (any)
1 [class]—Mounted Combat
3—Dervish Dance
5—Boon Companion (Mount, then Familiar at level 7)
7—Improved Familiar: Shadow Drake
9—Eldritch Heritage: Arcane (gives me a second Shadow Drake familiar)
9 [class-Formal Training]— Horse Master
11—
11 [class-Deflect Arrows]— Deflect Arrows
Feat needed: Horse Master (hopefully at lvl7)
Feats wanted: Teamwork feats, Extra Rage (+6 rounds/day)
Start at lvl3, with a Scimitar, and a near-useless familiar (mauler goat, perhaps? finesse+poison?)
At level 7, switch mto a Shadow Drake with Dervish Dance (Figment or Protector Archetype?)

Sorcerer 4 [Serpentine] (Tattooed) / Fighter 3 (Eldritch Guardian)
This build has lower HP & BAB, but as many familiars as possible.
1: gain a familiar from Familiar Tattoo
3: gain a viper familiar at level-2 from Serpentfriend
5: Fighter class increases the Tattoo familiar. Boon Companion increases Serpentine
9: Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) gives me another familiar at level-2
1—Weapon Finesse
1 [class]—Varisian Tattoo
1 [race]—Skill Focus: Knowledge (any)
3—Dervish Dance
5—Boon Companion (Serpentfriend)
7—Improved Familiar (Shadow Drake)
9—Eldritch Heritage (Arcane)


Eigengrau wrote:
Duncan888 wrote:
What kind of gear can u equip a familiar.. If there tiny..
There was a section somewhere either in the Familiar rules or in the Magic Items rules that told about what magic item slots can be used on your familiar.

Magic Item Slots for Animals is a table on the SRD showing this information.

Extra Item Slot from the Animal Archive gets the animal a slot not normally there. The Animal Archive has lots of rules for you.

/cevah


Covert Operator wrote:

Sorcerer 4 [Serpentine] (Tattooed) / Fighter 3 (Eldritch Guardian)

This build has lower HP & BAB, but as many familiars as possible.
1: gain a familiar from Familiar Tattoo
3: gain a viper familiar at level-2 from Serpentfriend
5: Fighter class increases the Tattoo familiar. Boon Companion increases Serpentine
9: Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) gives me another familiar at level-2
1—Weapon Finesse
1 [class]—Varisian Tattoo
1 [race]—Skill Focus: Knowledge (any)
3—Dervish Dance
5—Boon Companion (Serpentfriend)
7—Improved Familiar (Shadow Drake)
9—Eldritch Heritage (Arcane)

I think the familiar rules make all familiar options into the same familiar. There may be a way to get a second one, but that is iffy.

I suggest you double check your rules on familiar stacking. :-)

Now, getting many pets, one a familiar, one an animal companion, etc, is doable.

/cevah


Is a shadow drake a avian?


Duncan888 wrote:
Is a shadow drake a[n] avian?

No

/cevah


Then what is it on the list of magic slots for animals list?


Fly speed and wings. It's clearly avian.


It can fly of course but its type is Dragon, I think. It has 4 claws/legs , wings and a tail. What is it you're asking exactly?


Shadow drake would most likely be saurian type

The Exchange

Cevah wrote:
Covert Operator wrote:

Sorcerer 4 [Serpentine] (Tattooed) / Fighter 3 (Eldritch Guardian)

This build has lower HP & BAB, but as many familiars as possible.
1: gain a familiar from Familiar Tattoo
3: gain a viper familiar at level-2 from Serpentfriend
5: Fighter class increases the Tattoo familiar. Boon Companion increases Serpentine
9: Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) gives me another familiar at level-2
1—Weapon Finesse
1 [class]—Varisian Tattoo
1 [race]—Skill Focus: Knowledge (any)
3—Dervish Dance
5—Boon Companion (Serpentfriend)
7—Improved Familiar (Shadow Drake)
9—Eldritch Heritage (Arcane)

I think the familiar rules make all familiar options into the same familiar. There may be a way to get a second one, but that is iffy.

I suggest you double check your rules on familiar stacking. :-)

Now, getting many pets, one a familiar, one an animal companion, etc, is doable.

/cevah

There was a clarification somewhere that said can only stack the levels of animal companions if you chose the same companion for both classes, because it is not encouraged to flood the game with a bunch of pseudo-players who all have to take their turn. The tone of this heavily assumed you weren't getting two full-leveled companions. I assumed the same logic of this clarification applied to familiars as well.

Also, a wizard with Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) gets two familiars, and it specifically says "For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer." That gets you two familiars, and one of them progresses regardless of class level.

As I was writing this I realized you probably mean stacking the Serpentfriend and Tattoo Familiars. Would you rather I made a sorcerer with a familiar of 2 * class level - 2?


Familiar Folio has a throwaway line on page 18 in the description of Familiar Bond feat: "You can never have more than one familiar."

I think the original idea was that a familiar was soulbound to the wizard, and it was not possible to bind your soul to more than one familiar. This is not a PF rule, mind you. Just something that has appeared in fiction.


Edritch Guardian wrote:
At 1st level, an eldritch guardian gains a familiar, treating his fighter level as his effective wizard level for the purpose of this ability.
Arcane Bloodline wrote:
Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object.

Your levels stacks, you don't get 2 of them. All classes that grants familiar counts as wizards levels, and all go to the same "pool", improving your familiar but nevel granting more than one.


Eigengrau wrote:
It can fly of course but its type is Dragon, I think. It has 4 claws/legs , wings and a tail. What is it you're asking exactly?

I'm asking what slots it has.. Which means I need to find out where it falls on the Magic slots for animals table.


Duncan888 wrote:
Eigengrau wrote:
It can fly of course but its type is Dragon, I think. It has 4 claws/legs , wings and a tail. What is it you're asking exactly?
I'm asking what slots it has.. Which means I need to find out where it falls on the Magic slots for animals table.

It is a dragon, not an avian. What slots it gets is a different question. It looks like the text of the SRD comes from the animal archives and only covers what that book has. Psuedodragon has been an option since day one in the CRB and its omission is significant by showing the table only handles its own book.

That said, it does say:

SRD wrote:

Specific animals may be able to wear different types of items as specified in their original monster entry.

If you are using animal companions or familiars from another source, you can use the information in this table as a guideline for those creatures.

I do agree that the avian category is the closest fitting. However, literature has had reference to dragons wearing crowns, so you might add the head slot. Clothing is foreign to dragons, so that takes away the body slot. Likewise footwear, so no feet slot. I don't see reference to hands in the bestiary, so no hands slot. Its wings take up the location needed for the shoulders slot. Dragons disdain shields, or lack the ability to wield them. Either way, that slot is gone. Slotless is left, and they do get that.

The description mentions using its tail as a hand, so wand use is OK.

/cevah


I'd give the dragon types rings,head slot, necklace and slotless.

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