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NobodysHome wrote:

So, as usual, there are multiple interlocking problems, none of which are easy to solve.

(1) Easiest. The cultural attitude of, "The police are our enemy," is a vast contributor to the issue, yet is never addressed.
Back in the 1980's, I was a punk rocker. I had a black friend. We both suffered the, "You look different so we're going to stop you and question you every time you go out at night" syndrome. One evening, we were together when we were stopped. As usual, I answered all of the officers' questions politely and truthfully. I let them search my bag when they asked. They let us go in under 3 minutes. My black friend called B.S. and said if he'd been alone, they'd NEVER have let him go that easy. I told him, "Behave EXACTLY as I did, and see what happens."
Sure enough, the next week he came back to me, swearing up a storm. I asked, "So, what happened?"
"I got stopped again, and I did what you said."
"And?"
"It worked perfectly! They let me go after like 2 minutes!"

The only times I've had trouble with officers (held at gunpoint, handcuffed, detained more than 10 minutes) has been when one of my 'brilliant' friends insisted on his 'rights', and that 'you can't do that!' As I posted in another thread, get the badge number, get the name, document the events, and get home safely. THEN file the complaint. Don't start a confrontation on the streets at night when it's your word vs. the cops.

This was true in the 1980's, so I didn't address current issues. However, last weekend I was chaperoning a bunch of 14-year-olds at Great America and one of them ended up with a counterfeit $10 bill.

Again, I saw the same old, same old. The kids took a confrontational attitude with security. Security returned the attitude and started taking a threatening stance. I intervened, talked with security, and asked, "OK, so I assume your protocol is to do x, y, and z. How can I help get that moving so we can get this poor guy back to the park?"
Suddenly, everything flowed smoothly.

Cops are human beings with...

and when they cover up their badges or otherwise make sure you can't see them?


Lou Diamond wrote:

Hi all, I was wondering what you all think of groups like the Tides Foundation and the George Soros foundation funding outside agitators to go into places like Baltimore and other places that are experiencing civil unrest/rioting often for good reasons and stiring up the locals

where the locals might wind down after blowing off some steam, instead keeping the locals at a fever pitch.

If we had a real DOJ they would investigate these groups just like they are investigating the Police in those cities. The DOJ also needs to investigate the local Pols in those cities as they are Responsible for setting the patterns and practices of the police departments in their cities.

never heard of these organizations.

Pretty sure a mayor that is my age does not have a time machine and went back in time to make sure baltimore pd are a rough, violent organization


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Ought to explain the George Soros Baltimore link


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Oops!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rynjin wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
If there's nowhere to go but up you don't lose anything by rioting.

You don't really gain anything either. And you do, in many cases, lose the sympathy vote if nothing else.

It solidifies that whole Us vs Them thing, except other people start to think of themselves as "Us" in relation to the people who aren't "Them" (you) instead of the opposite.

What sympathy vote? The ones from the whites buying up guns by the truckload, because a black President gained the Oval Office. Or the ones who quietly muttered behind their backs because of color of their skins?

The rioters know there is no such thing as a sympathy vote across color lines. No advance in civil rights was ever done by rolling over and saying please. Martin Luther King would not have accomplished a single thing without radicals like the Black Panthers and Malcom X. And at the time, he was considered no lesser a threat by the white authorities.


LazarX wrote:
The rioters know there is no such thing as a sympathy vote across color lines.

If that were true 12% of the population with a horrible turn out rate would never make any progress.


This discussion of the recent happenings in my hometown gives me hope, as the mandatory attempt to derail with whinging over intraracial crime was summarily ignored as the red herring it is.


TheAntiElite wrote:
This discussion of the recent happenings in my hometown gives me hope, as the mandatory attempt to derail with whinging over intraracial crime was summarily ignored as the red herring it is.

Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy. The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male.

Note that this is a cultural/"learned" behavior problem. It is NOT a problem that is any more inherent in the genetic/biological make up of black people than it is for any other group of people one could define. If the culture breaks down in certain ways then various things will happen.

The good news in all of this is that as one is dealing with a problem that results from learned behavior then it can potentially be fixed. At least in some of the broader aspects. But of course that can't possibly happen as long as the entire issue is dismissed as a "red herring". But hey, somebody got the chance to rag on a "conservative" point of view and that must be the only thing that counts.


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Ceaser Slaad wrote:
TheAntiElite wrote:
This discussion of the recent happenings in my hometown gives me hope, as the mandatory attempt to derail with whinging over intraracial crime was summarily ignored as the red herring it is.

Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy. The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male.

Note that this is a cultural/"learned" behavior problem. It is NOT a problem that is any more inherent in the genetic/biological make up of black people than it is for any other group of people one could define. If the culture breaks down in certain ways then various things will happen.

The good news in all of this is that as one is dealing with a problem that results from learned behavior then it can potentially be fixed. At least in some of the broader aspects. But of course that can't possibly happen as long as the entire issue is dismissed as a "red herring". But hey, somebody got the chance to rag on a "conservative" point of view and that must be the only thing that counts.

it's hard for me to post in this thread. I've been slashing the throats of fellow black men so readily it keeps me from posting in here on the regular- the blood keeps gunking up my keyboard.

Oops, there goes one now. maybe I can squeeze him in between knocking over liquor stores...gotta keep those armed robbery numbers up!


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Ceaser Slaad wrote:
TheAntiElite wrote:
This discussion of the recent happenings in my hometown gives me hope, as the mandatory attempt to derail with whinging over intraracial crime was summarily ignored as the red herring it is.

Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy. The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male.

Note that this is a cultural/"learned" behavior problem. It is NOT a problem that is any more inherent in the genetic/biological make up of black people than it is for any other group of people one could define. If the culture breaks down in certain ways then various things will happen.

The good news in all of this is that as one is dealing with a problem that results from learned behavior then it can potentially be fixed. At least in some of the broader aspects. But of course that can't possibly happen as long as the entire issue is dismissed as a "red herring". But hey, somebody got the chance to rag on a "conservative" point of view and that must be the only thing that counts.

IT IS a red herring in the context of a discussion about how white cops interact with black communities.

There is absolutely no value in the following conversation:

"There is a problem that is deep in the community; society is collectively treating black people like second-class citizens, and in particular cops seem to think that beating, or shooting black people is something they need to do at a far greater rate than other colors of people."

"Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy. The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male."

Do you understand how (even if it is true, which I don't accept) that the statement in that context ISNT HELPFUL, and is quite clearly a red herring being espoused to draw attention away from white people behaving poorly?


Ceaser Slaad wrote:
TheAntiElite wrote:
This discussion of the recent happenings in my hometown gives me hope, as the mandatory attempt to derail with whinging over intraracial crime was summarily ignored as the red herring it is.

Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy. The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male.

Note that this is a cultural/"learned" behavior problem. It is NOT a problem that is any more inherent in the genetic/biological make up of black people than it is for any other group of people one could define. If the culture breaks down in certain ways then various things will happen.

The good news in all of this is that as one is dealing with a problem that results from learned behavior then it can potentially be fixed. At least in some of the broader aspects. But of course that can't possibly happen as long as the entire issue is dismissed as a "red herring". But hey, somebody got the chance to rag on a "conservative" point of view and that must be the only thing that counts.

What?! This is the most offensive post I ever did read, black women are murderous psychos too! *Dumps a body off at Freehold's house*

I think we should eat this one Freehold, all this black male flesh is going to waste!


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Yuugasa wrote:
Ceaser Slaad wrote:
TheAntiElite wrote:
This discussion of the recent happenings in my hometown gives me hope, as the mandatory attempt to derail with whinging over intraracial crime was summarily ignored as the red herring it is.

Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy. The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male.

Note that this is a cultural/"learned" behavior problem. It is NOT a problem that is any more inherent in the genetic/biological make up of black people than it is for any other group of people one could define. If the culture breaks down in certain ways then various things will happen.

The good news in all of this is that as one is dealing with a problem that results from learned behavior then it can potentially be fixed. At least in some of the broader aspects. But of course that can't possibly happen as long as the entire issue is dismissed as a "red herring". But hey, somebody got the chance to rag on a "conservative" point of view and that must be the only thing that counts.

What?! This is the most offensive post I ever did read, black women are murderous psychos too! *Dumps a body off at Freehold's house*

I think we should eat this one Freehold, all this black male flesh is going to waste!

just put em in the deep freeze unit I keep in the basement. It's to the left of the naked women I keep chained down there making packets of heroin for ready distribution into predominately white, upper middle class neighborhoods.


BigDTBone wrote:
Replaced with, "did you directly witness a crime being committed and can that be verified with your body camera?" If no, then you are not permitted to chase or detain.

That standard literally legalizes every single rape and murder that the cop does not happen to come across.


Fergurg wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Replaced with, "did you directly witness a crime being committed and can that be verified with your body camera?" If no, then you are not permitted to chase or detain.
That standard literally legalizes every single rape and murder that the cop does not happen to come across.

no. It is still against the law. The cops can't simply execute whomever they wish on flimsy evidence as a result.


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BigDTBone wrote:
Ceaser Slaad wrote:
TheAntiElite wrote:
This discussion of the recent happenings in my hometown gives me hope, as the mandatory attempt to derail with whinging over intraracial crime was summarily ignored as the red herring it is.

Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy. The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male.

Note that this is a cultural/"learned" behavior problem. It is NOT a problem that is any more inherent in the genetic/biological make up of black people than it is for any other group of people one could define. If the culture breaks down in certain ways then various things will happen.

The good news in all of this is that as one is dealing with a problem that results from learned behavior then it can potentially be fixed. At least in some of the broader aspects. But of course that can't possibly happen as long as the entire issue is dismissed as a "red herring". But hey, somebody got the chance to rag on a "conservative" point of view and that must be the only thing that counts.

IT IS a red herring in the context of a discussion about how white cops interact with black communities.

There is absolutely no value in the following conversation:

"There is a problem that is deep in the community; society is collectively treating black people like second-class citizens, and in particular cops seem to think that beating, or shooting black people is something they need to do at a far greater rate than other colors of people."

"Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy. The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male."

Do you understand how (even if it is true, which I don't accept) that the statement in that context ISNT HELPFUL, and is quite...

You do know that of the 6 police officers who have been charged in Gray's death 3 of them, including the one charged with 2nd degree "depraved heart" murder, are black? It's not simply white police vs black citizens in a city where they have a black mayor, a black prosecutor, and a significant percentage of the city officials are black.

An analogy. A patient is brought into the emergency room. He is suffering from a skull fracture, has broken ribs and a collapsed lung, arterial bleeding, and a hang nail. The emergency room staff immediately goes to work on the hang nail.

I contend that if you actually wanted to help the patient you would attempt to work on the more serious problems first. But that doesn't fit the narrative certain people want to advance.

It's not that there are no problems with the police. It's not that improvements can't be made. It's just that in the greater scheme of things this is a minor problem by comparison. By the way, you should go through the FBI'S uniform crime reports to get it straight from whichever end of the horse you think you're dealing with as to just who, statistically, is killing who.


Seriously. A man's death is a HANGNAIL?

Wow.

Liberty's Edge

Freehold DM wrote:

Seriously. A man's death is a HANGNAIL?

Wow.

Freehold... Come on now, you know better.

A black male, not a man.

(Just to be obvious here, Poe's law and all, I'm sarcastically mocking that attitude, not advocating it)


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Freehold DM wrote:

Seriously. A man's death is a HANGNAIL?

Wow.

One man's death compared to thousands. But you can make political hay out of the one death and attempting to deal with the thousands will take you places you don't want to go. Much better to heap scorn on those who are trying to point out the big picture.

You imply that I am insensitive because I am less concerned about the one death than I am about the thousands. My point is that all life matters and that willfully blinding oneself to thousands of deaths so they can focus on just one they can use to advance an agenda is arguably depraved

Given that many of the recent posters have demonstrably departed rationality this will be my last post on this subject.


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Freehold DM wrote:

Seriously. A man's death is a HANGNAIL?

Wow.

Statistically speaking the death of one man is LESS than a hangnail if we're looking at the human body as the sum total of all of earth's population.

Fairly certain part of a fingernail is still a larger proportion of the human body than 1/7 billionth of the population.

That said, statistically speaking while one death is less than a hangnail, the sum total human cost of life from police brutality and/or negligence is closer to the broken rib in that analogy. Not immediately life threatening, but if left to fester potentially fatal either due to infection or later puncturing a lung.


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Ceaser Slaad wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Ceaser Slaad wrote:
TheAntiElite wrote:
This discussion of the recent happenings in my hometown gives me hope, as the mandatory attempt to derail with whinging over intraracial crime was summarily ignored as the red herring it is.

Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy. The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male.

Note that this is a cultural/"learned" behavior problem. It is NOT a problem that is any more inherent in the genetic/biological make up of black people than it is for any other group of people one could define. If the culture breaks down in certain ways then various things will happen.

The good news in all of this is that as one is dealing with a problem that results from learned behavior then it can potentially be fixed. At least in some of the broader aspects. But of course that can't possibly happen as long as the entire issue is dismissed as a "red herring". But hey, somebody got the chance to rag on a "conservative" point of view and that must be the only thing that counts.

IT IS a red herring in the context of a discussion about how white cops interact with black communities.

There is absolutely no value in the following conversation:

"There is a problem that is deep in the community; society is collectively treating black people like second-class citizens, and in particular cops seem to think that beating, or shooting black people is something they need to do at a far greater rate than other colors of people."

"Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy. The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male."

Do you understand how (even if it is true, which I don't accept) that the statement in that

...

So we shouldn't worry about police brutality as long as crime still exists?


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Ceaser Slaad wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

Seriously. A man's death is a HANGNAIL?

Wow.

One man's death compared to thousands. But you can make political hay out of the one death and attempting to deal with the thousands will take you places you don't want to go. Much better to heap scorn on those who are trying to point out the big picture.

You imply that I am insensitive because I am less concerned about the one death than I am about the thousands. My point is that all life matters and that willfully blinding oneself to thousands of deaths so they can focus on just one they can use to advance an agenda is arguably depraved

Given that many of the recent posters have demonstrably departed rationality this will be my last post on this subject.

We imply that you are insensitive because you are counter systemic issues with individual case retorts.

But the bigger picture stuff is what you are missing out on. There is a literal and real systemic bias against the trust, promotion, and peace of black persons in this country. This bias is present and prevalent in the citizenry, in business, and in the rank and file of the government. This is seen most demonstrably in police action, but make no mistake that it isn't the only place it exists in the government.

This systemic bias and active oppression is what creates the "environment for learned behaviors" you describe. That environment is the direct result of systemic bias. So, you are actually asking people to look at the symptom, not the cause. Despite how deadly the symptom is, it is ultimately folly to treat symptoms and hope for a cure. Problems are not solved this way.

To mirror your analogy; someone comes into the hospital with a gun shot wound and dies in the ER. You say that the cause of his death is from blood loss, he dies because he bled out. If we can just stop people from bleeding out we can fix this problem. No one will have to worry anymore! All we have to do is just tell people, don't bleed out and you'll be fine.

But you didn't address why it happened. He bled out BECAUSE a bullet severed his femoral artery. Similarly, black urban neighborhoods sometimes see high instances of violent crime BECAUSE of the environment created by systemic bias. Pointing at the cop who chokes out and kills an unarmed black man begging for breath and saying "this is the problem," is accurately identifying an actual source of bias, an actual source of what is creating the environment. Pointing at a street crime statistic and saying "this is the bigger problem," is inaccurately purporting the issue as separate, and inaccurately identifying the true issues in play (AKA, red herring)

Also, running away from a thread when you get called out for BS and blaming your cowardice on the "irrationality" of your detractors is one of the single most disgusting displays of white-privilege I can imagine. The next time you decide to walk away from a discussion about how people are treated unfairly, consider if walking away wasn't an option for you. Consider how you would handle the "irrational" person if they had a gun, and harassed you on your way to work every single day because they decided you didn't belong where you were. Consider how you would feel knowing that the same thing was happening to your children, your friends, and your neighbors. Consider how you would react if walking away from an "irrational" person in a conversation was grounds to arrest you, detain you, or question you forcibly. Consider if you "moved your hand" in a way that made the "irrational" person "think" you had a weapon. Consider the "irrational" person decided that was cause to throw you on the ground, put their knee in your back, press with their entire body weight against your spine and kidneys, lift you up off the ground by a handcuff chain straining your arms and hands under your own weight. Consider that this "irrational" person could decided to take you to jail if they chose. Consider if that meant losing your job, your means to support your family, or your means to start one, all hinged on the gut-check decision of an "irrational" person who just threw you on the ground. Consider if this person letting you go with just a torn shirt, a bloody face, and a bruised rib could be bought by apologizing and thanking that person for their kindness and understanding. Consider if this was your life every single day. Consider if you couldn't identify "irrational" people by their internet handles. Consider if you had absolutely no way of telling "irrational" people apart from rational people.

If you consider those things, you may glimpse at 1% or so of what its like to be a black person in America today.


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Ceaser Slaad wrote:


Say what you want. Believe what you want. Bury your head as far down in the sand as you feel comfy.

More argument, less insult please.

Quote:
The incredibly sad, stone cold, multiply documented truth is that the most dangerous thing a black male will ever encounter ... is another black male.

Yes and no.

Whites commit crime on whites at roughly the same levels that blacks commit crime on blacks. This isn't a matter of learned behavior, it simply drops out of the defacto segregation we have in this country which concentrates african americans in cities where ALL that's around them is other african americans. If you're a criminal you'd statistically have to commute a fair distance into unknown territory to commit crimes , and the vast majority of violent crime is a crime of opportunity.


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Freehold DM wrote:
Yuugasa wrote:


What?! This is the most offensive post I ever did read, black women are murderous psychos too! *Dumps a body off at Freehold's house*

I think we should eat this one Freehold, all this black male flesh is going to waste!

just put em in the deep freeze unit I keep in the basement. It's to the left of the naked women I keep chained down there making packets of heroin for ready distribution into predominately white, upper middle class neighborhoods.

Wait, all those women aren't pregnant with your babies already? I would have thought your strong, unsuppressible, wild, animal-like black male sexuality would have put a bun in each of their ovens by this point.

I'm not even making a racist joke anymore, I am genuinely surprised! ^_^


Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:


So we shouldn't worry about police brutality as long as crime still exists?

Even sillier, one of the most important factors in getting crime rates down is to get the community to work WITH the police. If the entire community is running the other way at just seeing the police in the street how on earth are the police supposed to question anyone to find criminals?

This is one of the .. not as monumentally difficult things to fix, which is why it should be a priority. Other fixes would be the economy education and social mobility, all of which are WELL over the police or even city's head.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:


So we shouldn't worry about police brutality as long as crime still exists?

Even sillier, one of the most important factors in getting crime rates down is to get the community to work WITH the police. If the entire community is running the other way at just seeing the police in the street how on earth are the police supposed to question anyone to find criminals?

This is one of the .. not as monumentally difficult things to fix, which is why it should be a priority. Other fixes would be the economy educationan and social mobility, all of which are WELL over the police or even city's head.

And all of which can be handwaved away and ignored since black people are so dangerous and culturally criminal.

Black people have to fix their own culture and then maybe white people will start looking at some of the things that created that culture. But racism has nothing to do with it.


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Yuugasa wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Yuugasa wrote:


What?! This is the most offensive post I ever did read, black women are murderous psychos too! *Dumps a body off at Freehold's house*

I think we should eat this one Freehold, all this black male flesh is going to waste!

just put em in the deep freeze unit I keep in the basement. It's to the left of the naked women I keep chained down there making packets of heroin for ready distribution into predominately white, upper middle class neighborhoods.

Wait, all those women aren't pregnant with your babies already? I would have thought your strong, unsuppressible, wild, animal-like black male sexuality would have put a bun in each of their ovens by this point.

I'm not even making a racist joke anymore, I am genuinely surprised! ^_^

opens the Hood Bible

And lo, in Scarface, chapter 4 verse 3, the badass book doth say "Never get high off your own supply." When we cross reference this with the words of Saint Kid Rock in that King Of The Hill episode I once saw, where he points out to novice pimp Hank Hill that marrying one of his women is a bad idea, we now see that it is a bad idea to have sex with ones employees unless she is at the very top or very bottom of the rankings, it is safe to assume that a good thug does not risk compromising his business with lusts best slaked upon the only the most innocent and naive of women outside of one's race, who have heard rumors of your epic carnal prowess and natural physical gifts, but are afraid to discover such pleasure for fear of what their father would say.

Closes Hood Bible


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*Chants* The Hood be with us.

I've never run b%#*%es like you Freehold OG, but I did marry a white woman, that's got to count for something.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Yes and no.

Whites commit crime on whites at roughly the same levels that blacks commit crime on blacks. This isn't a matter of learned behavior, it simply drops out of the defacto segregation we have in this country which concentrates african americans in cities where ALL that's around them is other african americans. If you're a criminal you'd statistically have to commute a fair distance into unknown territory to commit crimes , and the vast majority of violent crime is a crime of opportunity.

Was re-reading The New Jim Crow where she points out that, like everything else in America, drug crimes are rather segregated. Blacks sell to blacks and whites sell to whites. I know I usually get mine off of fellow ofays.

Anyway, commie article:

Break with the Democrats! For a Multiracial Workers Party!

Baltimore: Racist Cop Terror and Capitalist Decay


You're white Comrade? I thought you were an off purplish/grey color, who ever heard of a white goblin?

Edit: On another note the socialists I know have been very anti democrat for awhile now, seeing them as part of the problem not the solution. My wife has even considered stopping watching SNL cause they are so gentle with president Obama, rarely mocking him like they do most presidents even though he has made some f*+#ed up decisions here and there.


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On a more thread relevant note, as terrible as messes like the current Baltimore situation are, in some ways I am thankful for them.

Minorities being gunned down by the police are still a thing that happens, but at least it has widely hit the public consciousness that that is messed up.

I feel like widespread public awareness and revulsion of current police brutality might actually someday lead to a change (even if that change is at the hands of a swarm of goblins(?) and their socialist revolution.)


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Yuugasa wrote:

On a more thread relevant note, as terrible as messes like the current Baltimore situation are, in some ways I am thankful for them.

Minorities being gunned down by the police are still a thing that happens, but at least it has widely hit the public consciousness that that is messed up.

I feel like widespread public awareness and revulsion of current police brutality might actually someday lead to a change (even if that change is at the hands of a swarm of goblins(?) and their socialist revolution.)

The ubiquitous video cameras are going to change things. Makes it much harder for the cops to just lie about what happened. Makes the abuse obvious enough that even the American public finds it hard to swallow.


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Ceaser Slaad wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

Seriously. A man's death is a HANGNAIL?

Wow.

One man's death compared to thousands. But you can make political hay out of the one death and attempting to deal with the thousands will take you places you don't want to go. Much better to heap scorn on those who are trying to point out the big picture.

You imply that I am insensitive because I am less concerned about the one death than I am about the thousands. My point is that all life matters and that willfully blinding oneself to thousands of deaths so they can focus on just one they can use to advance an agenda is arguably depraved

Given that many of the recent posters have demonstrably departed rationality this will be my last post on this subject.

No, good sir or madam, you are departing because the true nature of character was revealed in the course of telling black people living their black lives on the Paizo boards how much of a threat their fellow blacks are and, by derivation of context less statistics, how we deserve what we get. Then, on top of that, you conflated race with role, somehow believing that the fact that three of the charged officers are black makes everything hunky-dory instead of maybe drawing the more logical conclusion that one has to assimilate into 'cop culture' to advance ones' career. The problem was police going against the part of their job that is "serve and protect"...except that the system was not set up to serve and protect people of color, as the origins of that 'noble profession' in part dealt with there darkness as property, not people.

Seeing as you missed out on the past few decades of race-blaming and cultural defamation, I'm pretty sure you missed the long-locked Ferguson thread that includes my supposition on how other former 'undesirables' were brought in to the good graces of "white enough" to give an edge over those loathsome mud folk who had no business being so uppity as to expect being deemed PEOPLE. Maybe some research into police origins, the substantial inflation of charges against black people, and the proclivity to inflate cases for padding of municipal pocketbooks will she'd some light on why your presented vantage point is being met with scorn, derision, and outright disdain.


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BigDTBone wrote:
To mirror your analogy; someone comes into the hospital with a gun shot wound and dies in the ER. You say that the cause of his death is from blood loss, he dies because he bled out. If we can just stop people from bleeding out we can fix this problem. No one will have to worry anymore! All we have to do is just tell people, don't bleed out and you'll...

The only change I would make is that the person is in the ER for having been shot, and the assumption is made that he was shot for criminal activity, so every other ER patient is seen and treated because presumed criminals are not terribly much of a worry...when the individual was shot by a cop because he freaked out over the victim holding a cell phone and "mistook" him for armed and dangerous. And the the police took their sweet potato time getting him to the hospital because he "looked dangerous" and wanted to run records and procedural BS while he was steadily losing blood. So by the time he's reached the hospital the victim is 3/4 dead, and the assumption that the arrival by police escort (after all, why call an ambulance? It's not like the victim is important or that he didn't bring the shooting on himself just for being) means criminality is involved, his deprioritization results in bleeding out.

The hospital bears some responsibility, but they would not have been behind the proverbial eight ball had the victim been brought in promptly and mistakes been admitted to; not that the police will care as a quick call to the prosecutor will make for easy dismissal of all charges, or prevention of indictment, and the families can be bought off, though now quotas will have to be upped to make up for the money paid out to the victims surviving relatives. That is, unless they can leak details about the victim to put them in a more negative light and see if they can turn public opinion on the deceased, and thus make it clear that they were 'doing society a favor by taking the individual out permanently'.

...yeah.


BigDTBone wrote:
Consider how you would feel knowing that the same thing was happening to your children, your friends, and your neighbors.

This may present a problem -- his idea of being "rational" is to have a fundamental lack of empathy.


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Kirth Gersen wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Consider how you would feel knowing that the same thing was happening to your children, your friends, and your neighbors.
This may present a problem -- his idea of being "rational" is to have a fundamental lack of empathy.

I choose to believe that the issue is relatability not cold-heartedness. I could be wrong, but that is what I choose to believe.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Here's a bit of perspective. We've just had 9 people killed in a biker shootout in Waco. (yes that Waco.) This is an eruption in an on going war between rival biker gangs in the area, and it's a certainty that this will not be the last such incident.

How did the cops treat the suspects in this case once the situation had gotten locked down?

While awaiting processing, they can be seen texting on cellphones, smoking,or otherwise relaxing, in other words treated with a great deal of deference, that has not been seen given to similar suspects of color.

Thing is.. America isn't repulsed by violence. The popularity of "Sons of Anarchy" and "Breaking Bad" shows this to a T. At least when it's violence committed by white folk. Because we have a culture that hallows violence as a preferred method of conflict resolution, at least as long as that violence has a Caucasian flavor to it.

Where the fear comes is when that violence is practiced by those we see as creatures before we see them as people, at least not "our kind of people".

This country still has a deeply rooted problem of systemic racism. From that poisoned well, violence will continue to erupt, especially in a culture that sees more violence as the only solution.


LazarX wrote:

Here's a bit of perspective. We've just had 9 people killed in a biker shootout in Waco. (yes that Waco.) This is an eruption in an on going war between rival biker gangs in the area, and it's a certainty that this will not be the last such incident.

How did the cops treat the suspects in this case once the situation had gotten locked down?

While awaiting processing, they can be seen texting on cellphones, smoking,or otherwise relaxing, in other words treated with a great deal of deference, that has not been seen given to similar suspects of color.

Thing is.. America isn't repulsed by violence. The popularity of "Sons of Anarchy" and "Breaking Bad" shows this to a T. At least when it's violence committed by white folk. Because we have a culture that hallows violence as a preferred method of conflict resolution, at least as long as that violence has a Caucasian flavor to it.

Where the fear comes is when that violence is practiced by those we see as creatures before we see them as people, at least not "our kind of people".

This country still has a deeply rooted problem of systemic racism. From that poisoned well, violence will continue to erupt, especially in a culture that sees more violence as the only solution.

what bothers me more is the comments across social media about how this is okay because they were good shots- "thugs" would have hit innocent bystanders.


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While being arrested after shooting guns at cops white folks get treated like this.

While being stopped for a broken tail light black folks get treated like this.


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Freehold DM wrote:
LazarX wrote:

Here's a bit of perspective. We've just had 9 people killed in a biker shootout in Waco. (yes that Waco.) This is an eruption in an on going war between rival biker gangs in the area, and it's a certainty that this will not be the last such incident.

How did the cops treat the suspects in this case once the situation had gotten locked down?

While awaiting processing, they can be seen texting on cellphones, smoking,or otherwise relaxing, in other words treated with a great deal of deference, that has not been seen given to similar suspects of color.

Thing is.. America isn't repulsed by violence. The popularity of "Sons of Anarchy" and "Breaking Bad" shows this to a T. At least when it's violence committed by white folk. Because we have a culture that hallows violence as a preferred method of conflict resolution, at least as long as that violence has a Caucasian flavor to it.

Where the fear comes is when that violence is practiced by those we see as creatures before we see them as people, at least not "our kind of people".

This country still has a deeply rooted problem of systemic racism. From that poisoned well, violence will continue to erupt, especially in a culture that sees more violence as the only solution.

what bothers me more is the comments across social media about how this is okay because they were good shots- "thugs" would have hit innocent bystanders.

Well, it IS quite a plus that the only people killed were the most useless dregs of humanity and my personal least favorite people.

And no, not gangs, bikers. I hate bikers with a passion. Anyone who rides a motorcycle. And bicycles to a lesser extent.

I'd need to grow a thousand extra hands to count the number of times I've seen some m*+%$#~+~!~$ on a motorcycle break the law in about 5 different ways just driving a mile down a stretch of road. Running stop lights, swapping lanes willy-nilly, driving on the center line, hopping up on the sidewalk to get around traffic, and yet we get laws and signs telling cars to "Please be considerate" and "Share the road" because they keep getting hit and dying.

GEE I WONDER WHY.

The fact that there are sponsored "Bike Weekends" all over the country astounds me. It's essentially "Bikes ONLY Weekend" since it's generally not safe to be on the road. Not because of injury, but fear of being prosecuted for hitting some idiot who thinks the rules of the road don't apply to him, who the law agrees with.

Sorry to anyone here who is a biker. I'm sure you're a nice person as long as your ass is seated firmly in a chair in front of your computer and not on a motorcycle out menacing the road.


Rynjin wrote:

I'd need to grow a thousand extra hands to count the number of times I've seen some m@~**!%+~#!# on a motorcycle break the law in about 5 different ways just driving a mile down a stretch of road. Running stop lights, swapping lanes willy-nilly, driving on the center line, hopping up on the sidewalk to get around traffic, and yet we get laws and signs telling cars to "Please be considerate" and "Share the road" because they keep getting hit and dying.

GEE I WONDER WHY.

The fact that there are sponsored "Bike Weekends" all over the country astounds me. It's essentially "Bikes ONLY Weekend" since it's generally not safe to be on the road. Not because of injury, but fear of being prosecuted for hitting some idiot who thinks the rules of the road don't apply to him, who the law agrees with.

Sorry to anyone here who is a biker. I'm sure you're a nice person as long as your ass is seated firmly in a chair in front of your computer and not on a motorcycle out menacing the road.

LOL. Both because I love derailing threads, and because I was a bike commuter for 26 years, I have to reply!

I'm even more vehement than you. Motorists should be allowed to run over any bicyclist who would cause them to hit the brakes.

The number of times I was honked at for stopping at stop signs (because cars didn't expect it), yelled at for walking my bike in a crosswalk (it's the law. Look it up), or run off the road because some driver had an issue with ALL bikers is pretty alarming.

I figure the solution to the U.S.'s traffic woes is to put cameras at every intersection, then tell everyone, "If you have the right of way, you don't have to brake for ANYTHING."

It would at least be a huge boom for the Reality TV industry. And it would get people interested in what "Right of Way" actually means...

EDIT: Fair disclosure: Living in the S.F. Bay Area and having to deal with pedestrians, especially in Berkeley and S.F., can make you very VERY bitter.

  • "Well, just because it's a red light doesn't mean that applies to ME! I'm a pedestrian! Red lights are for cars!"
  • "What do you mean you didn't expect me to cross the street in the middle of the block from between two double-parked trucks!?!?! I'm a pedestrian! I ALWAYS have the right of way!"
  • "We as a city have to do more to protect the poor pedestrians who are hit in our fair city every day. What do you mean, we should research whether or not they were crossing the street 'properly'? They're pedestrians! There's no 'properly' to discuss!"
  • Ad nauseum...


  • Rynjin wrote:
    Freehold DM wrote:
    LazarX wrote:

    Here's a bit of perspective. We've just had 9 people killed in a biker shootout in Waco. (yes that Waco.) This is an eruption in an on going war between rival biker gangs in the area, and it's a certainty that this will not be the last such incident.

    How did the cops treat the suspects in this case once the situation had gotten locked down?

    While awaiting processing, they can be seen texting on cellphones, smoking,or otherwise relaxing, in other words treated with a great deal of deference, that has not been seen given to similar suspects of color.

    Thing is.. America isn't repulsed by violence. The popularity of "Sons of Anarchy" and "Breaking Bad" shows this to a T. At least when it's violence committed by white folk. Because we have a culture that hallows violence as a preferred method of conflict resolution, at least as long as that violence has a Caucasian flavor to it.

    Where the fear comes is when that violence is practiced by those we see as creatures before we see them as people, at least not "our kind of people".

    This country still has a deeply rooted problem of systemic racism. From that poisoned well, violence will continue to erupt, especially in a culture that sees more violence as the only solution.

    what bothers me more is the comments across social media about how this is okay because they were good shots- "thugs" would have hit innocent bystanders.

    Well, it IS quite a plus that the only people killed were the most useless dregs of humanity and my personal least favorite people.

    And no, not gangs, bikers. I hate bikers with a passion. Anyone who rides a motorcycle. And bicycles to a lesser extent

    sheds single tear

    I thought we could be friends....


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    NobodysHome wrote:
    disclosure: Living in the S.F. Bay Area and having to deal with pedestrians, especially in Berkeley and S.F., can make you very VERY bitter.

    Fair warning: As an avid pedestrian, I've been struck and knocked down by speeding bicyclists who insisted on riding on the sidewalk instead of the street, and I finally swore to kill the next one who did so, and throw his bicycle into oncoming traffic.

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