Tabletop Giant - New PFS Character Creator


Pathfinder Society

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Dark Archive

I would love to try it. May I have a code, good and glorious sir?


Would you prefer the feedback option be reserved for actual issues encountered? Or do you want any and all constructive feedback that you can receive?

Grand Lodge

I would like to try it out.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

Count me in.


Heck if you still want more people, I'd give it a go.

I might try to break the poor thing with weird characters, mind you.

Silver Crusade 4/5

I'm interested. Some questions as I cannot see it in first post or on site.

Can we build 2-lvl characters and higher or is it only for 1 lvl?
Can we choose what additional materials to include before building?
How builder deal with special features with identical names (Aura, Smite Evil, Channel, etc.) that don't stack from different classes?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

vuvko wrote:

I'm interested. Some questions as I cannot see it in first post or on site.

Can we build 2-lvl characters and higher or is it only for 1 lvl?
Can we choose what additional materials to include before building?
How builder deal with special features with identical names (Aura, Smite Evil, Channel, etc.) that don't stack from different classes?

Right now, they are working on getting it up and running for 1st level PCs only. Once they get that done, they can look at allowing leveling up.

Doesn't look like it at this time. Might be one of the suggestions they have behind the scenes.

Probably won't be dealt with until they start allowing more than 1st level PCs, since it is not something that a 1st level PC has to worry about.


I'd be interested in trying this out as well


I'm interested in testing. If needed, I can also send suggestions.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Do you want feedback solely through the in-site feedback or is it ok to leave feedback here, as well?


I would be more than happy to help out!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

More codes sent! All who requested a code above this post have been sent a code - if you didn't, then drop me a PM and we'll get you one :)

Leveling: As already mentioned, Tabletop Giant only generates level 1 'starter' characters - it does not level at this time. This was decided very early on as a milestone in design. Pathfinder - as the volumes of posts in the Rules Questions forum here can testify - is a complicated game, and creating a web based application to generate legal PFS characters is not a small task.

One of the difficulties in a big software project is that it is too easy to put together code that just barely works and then rush off to the next task (this is extremely common in the industry). The problem is that is the 'barely works' code may have real problems and is almost always inefficient and slow in one or more ways. We want to use the level 1 mark as a forced 'break' to give time to go back through the UI and other elements and get things working better than 'barely'. The benefit of doing this is we will have a solid baseline in the future effort of making this a full character creator.

As a level 1 character creator, I think this application can have particular usefulness for new players. Creating a character is a lot of work, and the complexity and vast content of the game can be daunting and even off-putting to new players. Once we get this live, brand new PFS players can visit the site and create PFS legal characters in a guided and instructional way that is low on frustration and ideally will even be fun.

Feedback, here or there: Really, we're just happy to get feedback through any source! As a rule of thumb, I would think any feedback that would not benefit from public discussion - such as letting us know a particular feat or trait is buggy - is probably best in a ticket on the site. However, UI or workflow suggestions which would be good to discuss with a number of opinions might actually be best to talk about here. For example, the Cleric UI is likely to be revisited soon, and we're pretty interested in opinions (stick with domain sets? or re-style it to select deity/domain1/domain2 individually?).

Overall we're really happy with the positive and kind reaction to the site and very thankful that you all are so supportive.

Thanks!


Hello all,

I wanted to make a post to highlight Cloning a bit - I think this is a really neat feature that can be very useful.

I just made a new character and set it as public, so that it is added to the 'Character Factory'. This is a wizard based upon Treantmonk's popular guide, and is available to see here (whether you have an account or not): http://tabletopgiant.com/characterfactory/treantmonk-god-wizard

For those that have accounts and are logged in - note the 'Clone' button at the top of the Character Sheet. If you click this button, the application will make a copy of this Treantmonk style Wizard in your own sandbox. You may then click the 'Basics' tab (or other tabs) and rename the character, and from there can completely retool it as you may desire until it is your very own creation.

This has some cool implications. In creating characters, you may just grab a 'clone' from the Character Factory that is at least close to what you are looking for, and then adapt the sheet from there. This may be much faster than generating a character from scratch.

Give it a shot!

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Feedback

Clerics and domains
I think that selecting clerics and domains separately is preferable. There are ways to gain domains that are outside of a particular deity's sphere of influence. Also, even though this is designed primarily with PFS in mind, it would be nice if this could be used for home games as well.

Suggestion: If a domain is chosen that does not mesh with the chosen deity, have an error box that the user can override. "I know this domain is not a legal choice for [Deity]. It is ok."

Suggestion: Allow "Other" and "None" to be choices for deities. In PFS, "none" is not a valid option, but in some home games it is.

Thanks again for the opportunity to test this out! :)

Silver Crusade 4/5

kinevon wrote:
vuvko wrote:

I'm interested. Some questions as I cannot see it in first post or on site.

Can we build 2-lvl characters and higher or is it only for 1 lvl?
Can we choose what additional materials to include before building?
How builder deal with special features with identical names (Aura, Smite Evil, Channel, etc.) that don't stack from different classes?

Right now, they are working on getting it up and running for 1st level PCs only. Once they get that done, they can look at allowing leveling up.

Doesn't look like it at this time. Might be one of the suggestions they have behind the scenes.

Probably won't be dealt with until they start allowing more than 1st level PCs, since it is not something that a 1st level PC has to worry about.

Thanks for reply! It's really tough to make all Pathfinder books get together even on tables, so making software should be even harder.

Sovereign Court

It would be nice if it remembered how many you selected to be shown (ie the drop down for 10,20,50 or 100) rather than resetting each time you go to another section and come back.

Languages, it seems it sorted it by category then alphabetical order. It would be nice if you could have an option to go pure alphabetical without splitting it up by category. Also, having an option to load more than the 5 it currently shows per page would be nice, like the feats/spells pages.

The Character sheet page is nice at the end. However it seems confused as to whether it is to be used as a reference sheet or to be proactively used during a game. For a spellcaster at least the class section allows you to tick boxes as you cast spells etc and camp to refresh your uses. However the adjustment boxes for abilities, HP, etc are unselectable, meaning you cannot take damage etc into account.


Ellias Aubec wrote:
However the adjustment boxes for abilities, HP, etc are unselectable, meaning you cannot take damage etc into account.

That part is definitely work in progress. The PDF character sheet was designed first, and much of it was carved up and adjusted to make the online sheet. Those adjustment boxes are vestigial remnants of that migration, and effectively are place holders for an actual UI adjustment. They will be updated with something actually useful in the future.

In addition, another related task will be to create commonly used modifiers on the online character sheet, such as player size (for enlarge and reduce spells), bless, haste, etc, that a player can set or unset as needed, and of course the sheet will auto-update to reflect the adjustment in stats.

Shadow Lodge 2/5

Overall a lovely clean interface. I'll be curious to see how this all progresses (especially when archetypes come into the mix).


The skills selection page was visited this morning. No more complete page refreshes with each skill point - you can keep clicking and adjusting without waiting if you like.

I believe the Cleric page is going to get a revamp here soon.

Edit: since the skills page is new - if anyone discovers a way to spend more skill points than they're supposed to have, please do let us know :)

3/5

So I tried making my PFS Aasimar Inquisitor of Ragathiel, and here's what I found:

1. No Aasimar alternate heritages. Without those, a few of my characters' ability scores will be wrong.

2. No Archetypes. I can't make a few of my characters without them.

3. When choosing and equipping my character's weapon, even though the Bastard Sword is Ragathiel's favored weapon, and Inquisitors are proficient, the non proficiency penalty was applied.

3. No regional languages.

4. Inquisitors get Stern Gaze at level 1, but that was not reflected on the character sheet

5. Inquisitors do not get Detect Alignment until level 2, but that was reflected on the character sheet

6. When equipping my character with a sword in the main hand, and a shield in the off hand, the software assumes 2 weapon fighting and applied massive penalties to hit.

Hope that was helpful.


The Fourth Horseman wrote:


1. No Aasimar alternate heritages. Without those, a few of my characters' ability scores will be wrong.

2. No Archetypes. I can't make a few of my characters without them.

Alternate heritages for aasimars as well as tieflings (are there any other races that have something similar?) is on the to-do list.

The Fourth Horseman wrote:


3. When choosing and equipping my character's weapon, even though the Bastard Sword is Ragathiel's favored weapon, and Inquisitors are proficient, the non proficiency penalty was applied.

Fixed! At least for bastard swords it is. There may be other favored weapons that don't properly get proficiency for the appropriate classes - we'll have to keep an eye on this.

Note: we do still need to add code so that bastard swords can be wielded two-handed as a martial weapon :(

The Fourth Horseman wrote:


3. No regional languages.

This is an oversite and shouldn't be a difficult fix - added to the queue.

The Fourth Horseman wrote:


4. Inquisitors get Stern Gaze at level 1, but that was not reflected on the character sheet

5. Inquisitors do not get Detect Alignment until level 2, but that was reflected on the character sheet

Fixed - should be sorted out.

The Fourth Horseman wrote:


6. When equipping my character with a sword in the main hand, and a shield in the off hand, the software assumes 2 weapon fighting and applied massive penalties to hit.

For the online sheet, the application will give you your combat bonuses for both a single attack as well as a two-weapon attack. The single attack *is* shown at the top of the column. The application provides the two-weapon fighting variant just in case that is something you may want to do from time to time.

Here is a screenshot to show what I mean. The first row is the single attack, and then it goes on to other optional variants, including an (unwise) unarmed attack as well as the two-weapon fighting.

We will be adding elements on the character sheet in the future to suppress various elements if you are not interested in them. For the moment though, the two-weapon fighting stats do come up everytime, regardless of how likely it is you'll use it.

This feedback was great and very much appreciated. Thanks!

Lantern Lodge 3/5

Sorry only saw this today.

Looks really nice, with a good clean interface to view character info.

Very interested in trying it out.


Secane wrote:

Sorry only saw this today.

Looks really nice, with a good clean interface to view character info.

Very interested in trying it out.

Code sent in a PM :)


As requested, the Cleric UI has been updated :)

The workflow is now as follows:

If the user is a cleric, the 'Deity' tab in the dashboard is now suppressed. A cleric may select their deity in the 'Cleric' tab.

Once a deity is chosen, this unlocks the Domains tab. This tab contains a table of all domains and inquistions offered by the selected deity. The user may then select two of these things from this table. The table's behavior is like many of the spell selection tables - once two items are selected, then those will be the only two shown (and can be clicked to remove).

Removing or changing your deity will cause the domain/inquisition selections to be deleted.

Please give it a shot - more feedback is always welcome.

We will be updating other divine classes that must choose a god in a similar fashion - if the class *must* choose a god, then it will be within their 'class' page.

Thanks!

Dark Archive

I'm interested in this.
Having an alternative to Obsidian Portal is really what catches my eye.

Let me know if I can help.

Good luck in your endeavors.


Tabletop Giant wrote:


Alternate heritages for aasimars as well as tieflings (are there any other races that have something similar?) is on the to-do list.

Dhampirs and Skinwalkers come to mind as races that have alternate heritages.

Grand Lodge

Id like to give this a shot please.


Sure, I'll try it out. I'm interested in seeing if this could give Hero Labs a run for it's money.

Scarab Sages Venture-Agent, Washington—Ballard aka WiseWolfOfYoitsu

Tabletop Giant wrote:
The Fourth Horseman wrote:


1. No Aasimar alternate heritages. Without those, a few of my characters' ability scores will be wrong.
2. No Archetypes. I can't make a few of my characters without them.
Alternate heritages for aasimars as well as tieflings (are there any other races that have something similar?) is on the to-do list.

Half-Orcs and Half-Elves also have "heritages" from Bastards of Golarion. Gnomes, Dwarves, and Elves all have subraces as well.

5/5

*blink*


WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:
Tabletop Giant wrote:
The Fourth Horseman wrote:


1. No Aasimar alternate heritages. Without those, a few of my characters' ability scores will be wrong.
2. No Archetypes. I can't make a few of my characters without them.
Alternate heritages for aasimars as well as tieflings (are there any other races that have something similar?) is on the to-do list.
Half-Orcs and Half-Elves also have "heritages" from Bastards of Golarion. Gnomes, Dwarves, and Elves all have subraces as well.

I'm especially interested in any heritage type variants that change stats, but 'flavor' selections are important too.

We'll probably look at human ethnicities and languages this week, as that one should be pretty easy (a dangerous thing to say).

Alongside that we'll start compiling lists of alternate heritages and so try to get the sum of that particular task.

I'll send out some new codes tonight as well :)


From today's news, I'll also mention that we'll look at integrating the new Unchained classes as soon as we can. Our first priority is to fix existing issues, but the new classes do need to be brought in. Tentatively we will do this after the more immediate fixes, but likely before starting the archetypes effort.

Just ordered the book. Looking forward to giving it a good read!

Scarab Sages Venture-Agent, Washington—Ballard aka WiseWolfOfYoitsu

Tabletop Giant wrote:
WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:
Tabletop Giant wrote:
The Fourth Horseman wrote:


1. No Aasimar alternate heritages. Without those, a few of my characters' ability scores will be wrong.
2. No Archetypes. I can't make a few of my characters without them.
Alternate heritages for aasimars as well as tieflings (are there any other races that have something similar?) is on the to-do list.
Half-Orcs and Half-Elves also have "heritages" from Bastards of Golarion. Gnomes, Dwarves, and Elves all have subraces as well.

I'm especially interested in any heritage type variants that change stats, but 'flavor' selections are important too.

We'll probably look at human ethnicities and languages this week, as that one should be pretty easy (a dangerous thing to say).

Alongside that we'll start compiling lists of alternate heritages and so try to get the sum of that particular task.

I'll send out some new codes tonight as well :)

I know that at least that the orc ones actually change racial traits, like the Desert-kin half-orc loses the bonus to intimidate and gets a bonus to diplomacy. Another gives the half-orc gets to ignore difficult terrain, called the Crag-kin.


WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:


I know that at least that the orc ones actually change racial traits, like the Desert-kin half-orc loses the bonus to intimidate and gets a bonus to diplomacy. Another gives the half-orc gets to ignore difficult terrain, called the Crag-kin.

Confirmed - they sure do.

Structurally (and perhaps logically) it feels as if 'ethnicities' in humans is equivalent to 'racial heritages' in other races - this is the way I believe we're going to approach this. If that observation is wrong, please do correct me!


If you still need testers, please PM me a code. I'd love to help test! This seems like a wonderful service for the community.

Scarab Sages Venture-Agent, Washington—Ballard aka WiseWolfOfYoitsu

Tabletop Giant wrote:
WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:


I know that at least that the orc ones actually change racial traits, like the Desert-kin half-orc loses the bonus to intimidate and gets a bonus to diplomacy. Another gives the half-orc gets to ignore difficult terrain, called the Crag-kin.

Confirmed - they sure do.

Structurally (and perhaps logically) it feels as if 'ethnicities' in humans is equivalent to 'racial heritages' in other races - this is the way I believe we're going to approach this. If that observation is wrong, please do correct me!

Human Ethnicities simply give the ethnic language. A couple might grant access to special classes from those regions, but I can only think of the Ulfen Guard requiring a specific ethnicity. All in all, I'm liking this tool, Thanks!

Grand Lodge 2/5

WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:
Tabletop Giant wrote:
WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:


I know that at least that the orc ones actually change racial traits, like the Desert-kin half-orc loses the bonus to intimidate and gets a bonus to diplomacy. Another gives the half-orc gets to ignore difficult terrain, called the Crag-kin.

Confirmed - they sure do.

Structurally (and perhaps logically) it feels as if 'ethnicities' in humans is equivalent to 'racial heritages' in other races - this is the way I believe we're going to approach this. If that observation is wrong, please do correct me!

Human Ethnicities simply give the ethnic language. A couple might grant access to special classes from those regions, but I can only think of the Ulfen Guard requiring a specific ethnicity. All in all, I'm liking this tool, Thanks!

/agreed While technically similar, they're much more basic as they're just (almost all of them) are just an extra language for humans.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Tabletop Giant wrote:

Hello all,

I wanted to make a post to highlight Cloning a bit - I think this is a really neat feature that can be very useful.

I just made a new character and set it as public, so that it is added to the 'Character Factory'. This is a wizard based upon Treantmonk's popular guide, and is available to see here (whether you have an account or not): http://tabletopgiant.com/characterfactory/treantmonk-god-wizard

For those that have accounts and are logged in - note the 'Clone' button at the top of the Character Sheet. If you click this button, the application will make a copy of this Treantmonk style Wizard in your own sandbox. You may then click the 'Basics' tab (or other tabs) and rename the character, and from there can completely retool it as you may desire until it is your very own creation.

This has some cool implications. In creating characters, you may just grab a 'clone' from the Character Factory that is at least close to what you are looking for, and then adapt the sheet from there. This may be much faster than generating a character from scratch.

Give it a shot!

I like the picture you used. I'd also like a code.


If you'd still like testers, I'm willing to try it out. I use hero lab pretty extensively, so I'm curious about how this program compares.


Hi Giant.

I like your website a lot- I used it to roll up a gunslinger and I like the options but by the time it got down to feats it became too difficult to use for me - mainly the way they are all listed alphabetically and then you need to wait for them to load for each page. This feature would still work well if you know which feats you are trying to pick ahead of time but if you want to browse all the feats and pick and choose it was just too slow and painful.

I'll play with it some more but I think you have a great start of a great program.

Dark Archive

Ideas for the feat section:


  • Allow users to search by keywords in feat descriptions instead of just feat names
  • Have more results per page
  • Alternate sorting (e.g. by source book), as well as choosing ascending or descending order of results
  • Have a way to filter feat types (combat, teamwork, crafting, etc.)

Any additions, omissions, or thoughts, folks?


I also would like to try this out. As I am frugal I have been using PCGen and paper and pencil for everything in ACG.


New codes sent out! That should be everyone who asked for one - if I regrettably missed anyone, please let me know and I'll correct my error.

I like the suggestions on the feats. That table is absolutely not in acceptable condition and it is going to get better. We're currently more focused on the heritages (I hope to have more on that by the weekend), but feats is likely next in line for focused effort.

Adding keywords for descriptions in feats is easy - we can do that. We'll look at integrating a few little querying methods as well as figuring out something to speed up validation.

And it is validation that is making it terrible. Any feats table is only showing you what your character qualifies for - all else is suppressed. Due to the nature of the logic, it must validate *all* feats before showing you the table. After validation, the table is much better, but it does need to revalidate every time you change something with your character.

But - onto heritages for now. After the heritages are in and solid we'll get those feat tables better - I promise.


I just refreshed my memory of the feats page and I realized it already has querying toggles for some of these things - sources and feat types in particular.

BUT - they seem a little shaky.

We'll get it together!

Liberty's Edge

Tabletop Giant wrote:


As the site is in test mode, new users will need an access code in order to register.

I would very much like to test your site.


We've had a pretty big update that addresses some of the issues everyone has expressed, and it would be awesome if folks would try it out.

Feat Validation: Feat validation is better! Validation still takes a long time, but we've changed when and how it happens. In evaluating the old code, we found it was running the routine way too often and out of the control of the user, and we believe this was greatly adding to the frustration. It shouldn't run every time you buy a sunrod.

Now, validation only occurs when you tell it to. When you view the feats, it will show you *all* of them, including those you do not qualify for. This is an added benefit, because there are certainly times when a player may want to view all feats - not just those they can take.

Click the new 'Validate' button in the top button group, and validation will begin. The cool thing about this is that it is in the background; you are free to still use the table while it is validating (though, it is best if you do not close the page). Once validation is complete, it will automatically refresh the table with the results.

There is also a new 'Flush' button that gets rid of all feat validation. You may use this if you wish to view all feats again after validating.

Validation is *not* automatic. If you make changes to your characters stats - particularly big ones, such as class or ability score changes - then the feat list may lack feats that you actually qualify for. So, when you change something big - revalidate!

Searching/Filtering Feats: Alongside the Validate and Flush buttons are buttons that open up different query toggles. Feats can now be shown by type, by race, and by source.

In addition, searching feats through free text has been improved. It no longer only queries feat names - the description, benefit, and special fields are also scanned for any text search matches. This should make finding the right feat a little bit easier.

Human Ethnicity: In! You are now free to choose your ethnicity on the 'Racial Traits' tab if you are human. Doing so may unlock a free language.

Racial Heritages: In! You are now free to choose an alternate racial heritage in the case you are an Aasimar, Dhamphir, Skinwalker, or Tiefling, and this is also done on the 'Racial Traits' tab. These behave similarly to alternate racial traits - choosing one will remove other racial traits you have (and will render other alternate racial traits unselectable).

There was a lot of code with these changes, but so far everything looks like it works. Please do let me know here (or in a ticket on the site) if anyone notices any hiccups.

Thanks so much!


This morning we reviewed Oracles and improved how their curses are reflected on the character sheet. Oracles - give it a shot :)

I wanted to take a moment to sincerely thank everyone for their feedback. This has been IMMENSELY helpful. A significant issue is just identifying shortcomings, gaps, and outright bugs, and the help in flagging problems has saved a lot of time. Please do keep the feedback coming either in a ticket on the site, or in this thread.

Thanks!

2/5

I'm interested in checking this out if possible.

3/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka TechGnosis

Add me to the interested list!


Interested as well, look forward to testing this out!

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