Who is the "Witch Queen of the North" from "Carnival of Tears"?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


So in "Guide to Darkmoon Vale" and "Carnival of Tears", there are references to the Witch Queen of the North. My first instinct is to say that its Elvanna, but I want to make absolutely sure. From what I recall, Elvanna is a winter witch 10/winter witch 10, yet "Carnival of Tears" cites the Witch Queen as having Frosty Chislers in her castle (something not seen in Reign of Winter, though you don't go directly to her castle, I admit) and, most importantly, having the power to create new types of Fey (the Cold Riders), and having the ability to create artifacts. That sounds like mythic abilities to me, something Baba Yaga has, but Elvanna certainly does not.

I sense a lot of retconning going on, but I'd like some explanation on this. I mean there's "The Witch Queen's Revenge," but in that adventure, there isn't much revenge going on, at least from how I read it. It was more of a race between 2 or 3 groups of people after an artifact left behind by Baba Yaga. Baba Yaga isn't getting any revenge, Elvanna isn't getting any revenge, so its hard to really say who the Witch Queen is.

Silver Crusade Contributor

There were a bunch of modules written to be "world-neutral". Carnival of Tears is one of them, as I recall. They've since stopped doing that. :)

As for Guide to Darkmoon Vale, that's one of the few books I'm not familiar with. If I recall, though, it's old enough that a lot of the information has been retconned away. As I recall, the original Rise of the Runelords doesn't include the ancient Thassilonians' roots in Azlant - that was added later. Just an example.

It's likely that it was written long before they decided to write up Irrisen for an AP. When they did... things had to change. :)

Sovereign Court

Guide to Darkmoon Vale pre-dates the old campaign Setting, the one which was replaced by the Inner Sea World Guide.

It's super-early, when Paizo were throwing out ideas (the Slor?) they sometimes leave behind old ideas that were never developed.

That said, Baba Yaga is the most likely candidate. She can do all of those things if needs be. I'd go with Baba Yaga.


Well, they use Baba Yaga and Irrisen in "Guide to Darkmoon Vale" and even say that the dark Ice fey that were introduced in "Carnival of Tears" live in Irrisen (of course, there are no dark ice fey in Reign of Winter, they made up a new template for that campaign).

Although it seems as if Baba Yaga and the Witch Queen are two different entities, as Baba Yag is only mentioned in relation to being the grandmother of the local witch. However, the Witch Queen is said to be someone with frozen claws and lives in an ice palace in the north, much closer to being Elvanna

but I don't think that Elvanna was able to make artifacts, was she? Guess when they put a face and name to the character, they nerfed her powers a bit? That's a bit odd, considering "Carnival of Tears" has servents of the Witch Queen attacking Andoran

Which is also weird. Why is Irrisen doing a strike against Andoran? These are fun little things to think about, but really shows how much has changed. Back before we knew everyting about Irrisen, the witch queen seemed more powerful and far more scary than Elvanna


The Slor? What's that?

I guess Baba Yaga would work, but it doesn't really seem her M.O, considering the adventure takes place in 4707, while she doesn't return until 4713


Sloars (alternately spelled "Slor") are rather large beasts not from this world. Gozer was noted for taking the form of one by Vinz Clortho.

:)
Ghostbusters wiki

Edit: citing source


You might be familiar with D0 Hollow's Last Hope; the Baba Yaga/Witch Queen reference in which might have been the first in Pathfinder/GameMastery history. It's where Guide to Darkmoon Vale got its starting info.

The Falcon's Hollow material in GDV has since been superseded by its entry in Towns of the Inner Sea, but I'm not sure I want to use all of the updated version IMC.

Reading E1 Carnival of Tears, I figure someone in Irrisen might really be begging for a large scale war, but it's not clear whether it's against the (regular) Fey or with any or all of the southern nations. Or maybe they do have some unknown reason for harrassing Darkmoon Vale in particular.

I also think of Elvanna in practice as a Queen Regent, a Stewardess (of Gondor) if you willl, so whatever references in E1 to Witch Queens might target both/either her and/or B.Y. after your taste. Maybe B.Y. made arrangements for dark ice fey back in 4613. But I don't have Reign of Winter, so I don't know much else about that.

It's doubtful whether E1 and the other FH based material from that era should be viewed as canon anymore, on account of their many throwaway oddity references. Shame, because I really like GDV in many ways.


From what I recall of Reign of Winter, Baba Yaga's interest in Irrisen is merely as a garden to cultivate her daughters for the purpose that's described in part 6 and what she does with them after she leaves golarion. Everything else she does is more of a display of dominance to keep things working like clockwork while she runs off to do whatever else she does throughout the multiverse.

Elvanna, while not powerful enough to create artifacts on her own, has a much more "conquer" mentality, as freezing the planet was her idea.

so BY has the power, but not the interest

and Elvanna has the interest, but not necessarily the power

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