Star Wars The Force Awakens Teaser #2

[Krensky]

Tels wrote:

The EU was accepted as canon up until Attack of the Clones. But even then the EU was accepted as canon unless GL made something that specifically said otherwise.

All of the games, the comics, cartoons etc. were considered canon by most everyone.

Then Disney makes the statement that explicitly states the entire EU is no longer canon, and established what is considered canon.

Lucas and Lucasfilm never did. What some fans considered canon is immaterial.

[Marc Radle]

I've never considered anything other than the 6 movies to be canon. That seems to be the prevailing attitude for most fans, from what I've heard, experienced, seen and read (fans of the various books, comics etc obviously don't agree).

As far as I know, the movies only are canon has pretty much been the official stance as well.

[Hama]

I've always considered the more high quality novels, and some high quality video games to be canon.

[Tels]

Up until this point, every person that I've ever interacted with has considered the EU canon. I mean, if nothing outside of the 6 movies were canon (and then Clone Wars and Rebels), why the hell would Lucasfilms keep signing off or producing games and novels and comics and cartoons building off of the EU canon?

In fact, the EU being considered canon is one of the huge complaints I've heard about the prequels, being bad; because it spits in the face of the EU and ignores several things. People were upset and furious about it, something that wouldn't make sense unless people considered the EU canon.

While I am sad that some parts of the universe are now, no longer, canon, I'm overall pleased the EU got wiped clean from canon. I've felt there was too much leeway given to many authors and writers when it came to various aspects of the Star Wars EU. Like Palapatin coming back in clone bodies, or the Force being turned into Magic with various different powers introduced.

[thejeff]

Tels wrote:

Up until this point, every person that I've ever interacted with has considered the EU canon. I mean, if nothing outside of the 6 movies were canon (and then Clone Wars and Rebels), why the hell would Lucasfilms keep signing off or producing games and novels and comics and cartoons building off of the EU canon?

In fact, the EU being considered canon is one of the huge complaints I've heard about the prequels, being bad; because it spits in the face of the EU and ignores several things. People were upset and furious about it, something that wouldn't make sense unless people considered the EU canon.

While I am sad that some parts of the universe are now, no longer, canon, I'm overall pleased the EU got wiped clean from canon. I've felt there was too much leeway given to many authors and writers when it came to various aspects of the Star Wars EU. Like Palapatin coming back in clone bodies, or the Force being turned into Magic with various different powers introduced.

Because people aren't logical. Because people liked parts that the prequels ignored. Because people build up their own unofficial canon in their heads - like Hama above who considers "the more high quality novels, and some high quality video games to be canon", whatever that means.

Furthermore, if the prequels established the EU as non-canon, by spitting in the face of the EU and ignoring several things, how can it now be a shock that the EU isn't treated as canon for the new sequels?

Basically I always assumed the EU was its own canon, that needed to be approved and kept internally consistent, but wouldn't be the basic for any future movies. They might take some stuff from it, but not adopt it wholesale. There's too much and it's too complicated.

[Lord Snow]

I don't get what the fuss about the canon. To me it seemed pretty clear that the EU is based on Star Wars, not an actual part of the story the movies tell.

It makes a lot of sense. It's not like whenever I see a story about Dracula I try to make it fit with every other movie, book, comic or art that I've ever seen of count Dracula. I don't see the problem with there being many different interpretation for the same source material.

There are roleplaying games, board games and computer games of Middle Earth. Will anybody expect to see the stories of any of those showing up in any potential future Lord of the Rings movies?

Comic books and the recent Marvel movie enterprise might be at fault for the confusion, as they got us used to thinking in continuities.

[137ben]

I follow Machete order. Hence, I consider the original trilogy, II, and III to be canon, but not Phantom Menace:D

In general, though, I try not to think too much about canon in fiction. If I'm reading a book, I just assume that the contents of the book are canon, as are other books in the series which are directly tied to the events in the book.

On another note, I sort of liked Revenge of the Sith. I disliked Hayden Christensen's acting, but aside from that I thought III was close to the original trilogy, and probably better than VI. Granted, that's a really big "aside from"--Hayden Christensen's crappy acting takes up a lot of the movie.

[Set]

As long as I'm not considering Midichlorians to be canon, then I'm going to go ahead and consider Admiral Thrawn to be canon.

What Lucas considers to be canon is irrelevant, because The Author is Dead.

My interpretation of a fictional work may not be in any way objectively 'better' than the authors, but it's sure as heck mine, and more subjectively 'better' *to me.*

[thejeff]

Set wrote:

As long as I'm not considering Midichlorians to be canon, then I'm going to go ahead and consider Admiral Thrawn to be canon.

What Lucas considers to be canon is irrelevant, because The Author is Dead.

My interpretation of a fictional work may not be in any way objectively 'better' than the authors, but it's sure as heck mine, and more subjectively 'better' *to me.*

As long as you aren't then upset when future works aren't constrained to a canon that only exists in your head.

[MMCJawa]

Lord Snow wrote:

I don't get what the fuss about the canon. To me it seemed pretty clear that the EU is based on Star Wars, not an actual part of the story the movies tell.

It makes a lot of sense. It's not like whenever I see a story about Dracula I try to make it fit with every other movie, book, comic or art that I've ever seen of count Dracula. I don't see the problem with there being many different interpretation for the same source material.

There are roleplaying games, board games and computer games of Middle Earth. Will anybody expect to see the stories of any of those showing up in any potential future Lord of the Rings movies?

Comic books and the recent Marvel movie enterprise might be at fault for the confusion, as they got us used to thinking in continuities.

I think the difference is, whereas numerous folks have produced Dracula movies over the years with no collaboration with one each. Prior to the ramp up for The Force Awakens however, all Star Wars media was set in the same timeline, from games to books. And that continuity was maintained over multiple decades.

So if you were a fan of the prior games/books...it might be disappointing to dismiss those. And if you are worried about the quality of the next movie, moreso.

I personally have no horse in the race so to speak...I haven't read a EU book in over a decade and a half, and I was never into the games.

I am just hoping that we get a solid new entry in the Star Wars, and not something that trades on nostalgia over plot to work (see Jurassic World, maybe Terminator Genisys?)

[Set]

thejeff wrote:

Set wrote:

My interpretation of a fictional work may not be in any way objectively 'better' than the authors, but it's sure as heck mine, and more subjectively 'better' *to me.*

As long as you aren't then upset when future works aren't constrained to a canon that only exists in your head.

Since that would require someone in Hollywood to be reading my mind directly, I'd be quite comforted that that *not* be the case. :)

[Grey Lensman]

thejeff wrote:

Set wrote:

As long as I'm not considering Midichlorians to be canon, then I'm going to go ahead and consider Admiral Thrawn to be canon.

What Lucas considers to be canon is irrelevant, because The Author is Dead.

My interpretation of a fictional work may not be in any way objectively 'better' than the authors, but it's sure as heck mine, and more subjectively 'better' *to me.*

As long as you aren't then upset when future works aren't constrained to a canon that only exists in your head.

Well, I'm slightly upset, but that's because the Zahn novels are really good (well, the two he released after the Thrawn trilogy aren't anywhere near as good, but he was stuck referencing other authors who weren't in his league). But it's more disappointment over not referencing something that I consider really, really good rather than rage over stuff being changed. I'm not going to launch post after post on multiple boards claiming that this means the new films are going to suck, or refuse to see the films (unless the people I know who insist on seeing these things on opening day come out claiming they were cheated of their cash, but that's a different matter). It's a matter of perspective.

["Devil's Advocate"]

MMCJawa wrote:

I think the difference is, whereas numerous folks have produced Dracula movies over the years with no collaboration with one each. Prior to the ramp up for The Force Awakens however, all Star Wars media was set in the same timeline, from games to books. And that continuity was maintained over multiple decades.

Not really. Actually, on of the more commonly held EU Canon has been the large amount of "The Old Republic" lore, set 4,000 years prior to, if I recall correctly, the Battle of Yavin. The Old Republic was also partially included in Star Wars 1-3 as Lucas did need to retroactively include certain aspects like Jedi not being able to marry, the Banite Sith Order/Rule of Two, (one Master and one Apprentice at a time), and to a point the miracle birth of Anakin.

Up until recently, and this probably has a lot to do with the current ownership of various licenses only, the Old Republic material was 100% approved Canon, and looking at the actual announcement, it looks like it's saying (outside of a few noted cases where it does specifically contradict the movies), they are not being removed from canon as much as future material will not include them, which probably wouldn't matter anyway.

[Freehold DM]

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:

MMCJawa wrote:

I think the difference is, whereas numerous folks have produced Dracula movies over the years with no collaboration with one each. Prior to the ramp up for The Force Awakens however, all Star Wars media was set in the same timeline, from games to books. And that continuity was maintained over multiple decades.

Not really. Actually, on of the more commonly held EU Canon has been the large amount of "The Old Republic" lore, set 4,000 years prior to, if I recall correctly, the Battle of Yavin. The Old Republic was also partially included in Star Wars 1-3 as Lucas did need to retroactively include certain aspects like Jedi not being able to marry, the Banite Sith Order/Rule of Two, (one Master and one Apprentice at a time), and to a point the miracle birth of Anakin.

Up until recently, and this probably has a lot to do with the current ownership of various licenses only, the Old Republic material was 100% approved Canon, and looking at the actual announcement, it looks like it's saying (outside of a few noted cases where it does specifically contradict the movies), they are not being removed from canon as much as future material will not include them, which probably wouldn't matter anyway.

FOR THE ONE SITH!

[GreyWolfLord]

Marc Radle wrote:

I've never considered anything other than the 6 movies to be canon. That seems to be the prevailing attitude for most fans, from what I've heard, experienced, seen and read (fans of the various books, comics etc obviously don't agree).

As far as I know, the movies only are canon has pretty much been the official stance as well.

I believe someone posted a link of what people had pieced together from the interviews and such.

The biggest thing that Abrahms MAY be ignoring is the second half of Return of the Jedi, at least the part where the Empire loses, the Rebels celebrate, and you see various scenes in the Special edition of the Empire being overthrown and people rejoicing that they are now free.

Didn't happen, which is why you have them still as a rebellion.

The second biggest thing...Han and Leia...that stopped at around the Empire Strikes back. Once again, that second portion of the Return of the Jedi you saw...didn't really happen exactly like that. Han was freed from carbonite, but went back to his old ways and never really was a team player that helped take down the shields of the Death star or was truly in love with Leia and all that.

That's the type of stuff that's being stated is going on with this movie that I think is going to upset a LOT of people.

Even in the previews, at least for section one, it does make me go...wait a second, why is there all this Imperial Power after the ending of Return of the Jedi?

It puts a new light on why they wiped the EU...it wasn't that it was bad (though in my opinion, 90% of it was), but they have to somehow write a TON of novels to make people be able to make sense out of the discrepancies of Abrahms new movie and what happened at the end of the original trilogy.

[thejeff]

GreyWolfLord wrote:

Marc Radle wrote:

I've never considered anything other than the 6 movies to be canon. That seems to be the prevailing attitude for most fans, from what I've heard, experienced, seen and read (fans of the various books, comics etc obviously don't agree).

As far as I know, the movies only are canon has pretty much been the official stance as well.

I believe someone posted a link of what people had pieced together from the interviews and such.

The biggest thing that Abrahms MAY be ignoring is the second half of Return of the Jedi, at least the part where the Empire loses, the Rebels celebrate, and you see various scenes in the Special edition of the Empire being overthrown and people rejoicing that they are now free.

Didn't happen, which is why you have them still as a rebellion.

The second biggest thing...Han and Leia...that stopped at around the Empire Strikes back. Once again, that second portion of the Return of the Jedi you saw...didn't really happen exactly like that. Han was freed from carbonite, but went back to his old ways and never really was a team player that helped take down the shields of the Death star or was truly in love with Leia and all that.

That's the type of stuff that's being stated is going on with this movie that I think is going to upset a LOT of people.

Even in the previews, at least for section one, it does make me go...wait a second, why is there all this Imperial Power after the ending of Return of the Jedi?

It puts a new light on why they wiped the EU...it wasn't that it was bad (though in my opinion, 90% of it was), but they have to somehow write a TON of novels to make people be able to make sense out of the discrepancies of Abrahms new movie and what happened at the end of the original trilogy.

I haven't been following the rumors and the interviews, but I'd be really shocked if they actually invalidated anything in the original trilogy. Maybe cast some of it in a new light, but that's not quite the same. Lots of people celebrating and thinking they're free, doesn't mean the Empire has completely vanished - isn't that a large part of the plot of the Thrawn books, after all? Maybe in this version the remnants managed to pull together and be even more successful?

Han not staying with Leia and going back to his old ways doesn't mean he didn't help take down the shields of the Death Star, just that he didn't stick around long after the victory party. Not a contradiction of anything we were shown, just of the assumptions we made.

[MMCJawa]

Yeah....I am pretty sure anything that has appeared in six episodes will not be ignored.

The rumors I heard was that the political situation is basically a cold war, with remnants of the Empire still present and in a tense stand off between the Alliance. Having the rebellion still be a rebellion 20 years on...is um...stupid.

[DM Beckett]

Not necessarily. Before the Empire, there was already a pretty massive division between the various systems, galaxcies, and guilds/federations one how to rule. It could make a lot of sense that there would still be a big split. The "rebels" could be trying to return to a form of democracy that had been lost when the Empire began, something likely few in this time would really even remember having.

There is also the fact that without the EU and particularly the Old Republic era, we really have no knowledge about the Republic/Rebels at all except that they had the Jedi as a semi-apolitical police force. They could honestly be worse than the Empire.

More I think about it, the more I'm wondering if this is going to be a political statement about the war on terror and gun control?

[Krensky]

The Empire was founded in 19 BBY and fell apart with Palpitine's death in 11 ABY. So it was thirty years, technically less since Palipitine didn't dispose of the pretense of democracy until just before Yavin, so just a bit more than a decade without a galactic democracy.

I think people will remember it.

[R_Chance]

Canon is the six movies, The Clone Wars and, now, Rebels according to Disney. Anything else is a maybe. Disney made that announcement in April 2014 iirc. Anything else is a maybe / alternate thing.

[Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun]

Krensky wrote:

Palpitine's death in 11 ABY.

That's EU, and of his clones' bodies. His canonical death is 4 ABY, as told in the Rebel low budget traitorous propoganda holo vid Return of the Jedi.

[baron arem heshvaun]

R_Chance wrote:

Canon is the six movies, The Clone Wars and, now, Rebels according to Disney. Anything else is a maybe. Disney made that announcement in April 2014 iirc. Anything else is a maybe / alternate thing.

The new novels are now considered as part of this umbrella.

[baron arem heshvaun]

I'll just selectively leave this here.

[Freehold DM]

baron arem heshvaun wrote:

I'll just selectively leave this here.

sexiest thing I have seen all day

[Hama]

Freehold DM wrote:

baron arem heshvaun wrote:

I'll just selectively leave this here.

sexiest thing I have seen all day

Bleh. You have to be a subscriber for that.

[Krensky]

Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun wrote:

Krensky wrote:

Palpitine's death in 11 ABY.

That's EU, and of his clones' bodies. His canonical death is 4 ABY, as told in the Rebel low budget traitorous propoganda holo vid Return of the Jedi.

What I get for checking stuff on my phone.

[Krensky]

Hama wrote:

Freehold DM wrote:

baron arem heshvaun wrote:

I'll just selectively leave this here.

sexiest thing I have seen all day

Bleh. You have to be a subscriber for that.

Cry me a river.

[Hama]

Krensky wrote:

Hama wrote:

Freehold DM wrote:

baron arem heshvaun wrote:

I'll just selectively leave this here.

sexiest thing I have seen all day

Bleh. You have to be a subscriber for that.

Cry me a river.

I'm not. I'm just never paying a monthly fee to play a game again.

[R_Chance]

baron arem heshvaun wrote:

R_Chance wrote:

Canon is the six movies, The Clone Wars and, now, Rebels according to Disney. Anything else is a maybe. Disney made that announcement in April 2014 iirc. Anything else is a maybe / alternate thing.

The new novels are now considered as part of this umbrella.

Yep, and every thing going forward from post Disney Lucas Arts and licensees (comic books, novels, etc.). Given the variable nature of games outcomes I think they will be the exception.

[Paizo Booth Babe]

Freehold DM wrote:

baron arem heshvaun wrote:

I'll just selectively leave this here.

sexiest thing I have seen all day

Did you skip looking at the mirror today my Nubian sweetbunns?

Raawwrrr

[Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun]

Hama wrote:

Bleh. You have to be a subscriber for that.

Join us Hama ... And we can Rule the Galaxy together as Noble Undead Attic Dweller and Wolf's Head.

[Hama]

Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun wrote:

Hama wrote:

Bleh. You have to be a subscriber for that.

Join us Hama ... And we can Rule the Galaxy together as Noble Undead Attic Dweller and Wolf's Head.

I might. I can't afford it, however.

[Aranna]

Yeah I am free play on SWTOR as well and I can't see that changing.

[Freehold DM]

Paizo Booth Babe wrote:

Freehold DM wrote:

baron arem heshvaun wrote:

I'll just selectively leave this here.

sexiest thing I have seen all day

Did you skip looking at the mirror today my Nubian sweetbunns?

Raawwrrr

I saw enough of myself in the mirror at the gym yesterday. Now that I've got that bad tooth out, I can concentrate on getting back in shape.