Pathfinder Unchained Potential Errors


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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

8 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 13 people marked this as a favorite.
Credits page wrote:

Authors • Dennis Baker, Jesse Benner, Ross Beyers, Logan Bonner, Jason Bulmahn, Robert Emerson, Tim Hitchcock, Jason Nelson,

Tom Phillips, Stephen Radney-MacFarland, Thomas M. Reid, Robert Schwalb, Mark Seifter, and Russ Taylor

*Ahem*


If we are starting this thread already.

Page 17 of Unchained under the Ki Range power, the ability says that the far shot feat doubles range increments.

Page 9 and 12, accurate stance rage power seems to make reckless stance an actively bad option.

page 20 Unchained rogue lacks the ability to sneak attack targets with concealment mentioned in the recent precision damage FAQ

page 138 revised poison and disease rules imply that only wish and miracle can cure anyone who has died to a disease or poison.

page 76 flawless raw materials make crafting slower if you could make the normal dc.

page 23 debilitating injury, having two rogues in a party causes both to have issues, as debilitating injury from one source overwrites it from another source causing more than one rogue to be unable to get the full benefits of their class abilities.

Dark Archive

How are you getting your information Avadriel? The book isn't even out yet.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

JonathonWilder wrote:
How are you getting your information Avadriel? The book isn't even out yet.

Subscribers are getting PDFs as their physical copies ship.

Dark Archive

Ah, okay... well I just hope there isn't many errors, since I am really looking forward to Pathfinder Unchained being a success.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Ross Byers wrote:
Credits page wrote:

Authors • Dennis Baker, Jesse Benner, Ross Beyers, Logan Bonner, Jason Bulmahn, Robert Emerson, Tim Hitchcock, Jason Nelson,

Tom Phillips, Stephen Radney-MacFarland, Thomas M. Reid, Robert Schwalb, Mark Seifter, and Russ Taylor
*Ahem*

Creybaby.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Avadriel wrote:
page 20 Unchained rogue lacks the ability to sneak attack targets with concealment mentioned in the recent precision damage FAQ

Actually, it doesn't. Compare this

Standard rogue wrote:
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.

with this:

Unchained rogue wrote:
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with total concealment.


Yah, the unchained rogue functionally gets Shadowstrike for free, since explicitly only total concealment stops her sneak attack.

Also, Page 13, Unmodified Rage Powers Sidebar, lists Ultimate Campaign instead of Ultimate Combat, and is apparently missing spell sunder (which has been sort of rolled into the new Witchhunter (critting dispels buffs!), but is still a pre-req for Sunder Enchantment, which IS listed in the sidebar).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Page 13, sidebar Unmodified Rage Powers: intro mentions Ultimate Combat, but rage powers are listed under a heading for Ultimate Campaign (which I don't think had any rage powers at all).


Zaister wrote:
Avadriel wrote:
page 20 Unchained rogue lacks the ability to sneak attack targets with concealment mentioned in the recent precision damage FAQ

Actually, it doesn't. Compare this

Standard rogue wrote:
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.

with this:

Unchained rogue wrote:
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with total concealment.
Zhangar wrote:

Yah, the unchained rogue functionally gets Shadowstrike for free, since explicitly only total concealment stops her sneak attack.

Ah yes, the issue is that that wording does not fulfill the criteria set forth by the FAQ

FAQ wrote:


Yes, in general concealment does negate all kinds of precision damage, unless you have a special ability that particularly says otherwise like the Shadow Strike feat or the Unchained rogue’s sneak attack.

The FAQ clearly says that you need an ability that specifically says you can, not one that does not say you cannot. Otherwise, swashbuckler's precise strike which makes no mention of concealment at all would not be stopped by partial concealment, and according to Mark Seifter, it is.

Since the unchained rogue is called out as an example not as an exception, and it fails to exemplify the quality for which it was chosen as an example, it is a bad example, and its ability to sneak attack a target with 20% concealment is called into question.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Variant Multiclassing, p. 88
I may be missing something, but I am not seeing how to handle spell progression when the secondary class is a spellcaster (and the primary class is not).


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I'm not sure if this is an error or not, but the new barbarian rage damage bonus only applies to melee and thrown weapons.

Firstly, there's no X1.5 for 2 handed weapons, and ranged weapons get no bonus at all.

Spotted this because my barbarian pc uses a two handed weapon most of the time, and an adaptable CLB for flying targets.

That's gonna bring my damage output down some if it's deliberate.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Lord Fyre wrote:

Variant Multiclassing, p. 88

I may be missing something, but I am not seeing how to handle spell progression when the secondary class is a spellcaster (and the primary class is not).

I don't see where the variant multiclassing rules intersect with spell progression at all. The VMC rules don't give you spellcasting; they can give you a spell-like ability or two, but they specifically cover how to handle such things. Can you give an example of what you're asking?


Not sure if error or not, but Inquisitor VMC makes players take a code of conduct, where Inquisitors do NOT have to follow one.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Shisumo wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:

Variant Multiclassing, p. 88

I may be missing something, but I am not seeing how to handle spell progression when the secondary class is a spellcaster (and the primary class is not).
I don't see where the variant multiclassing rules intersect with spell progression at all. The VMC rules don't give you spellcasting; they can give you a spell-like ability or two, but they specifically cover how to handle such things. Can you give an example of what you're asking?

You're right.

The only one that is mushy is Magus
"Spellstrike: At 11th level, he gains the spellstrike class
feature, but he can use it only with spells that are on the
magus spell list, even though he can cast them using another
class’s spell slots."

Paizo Employee Designer

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Secret Wizard wrote:
Not sure if error or not, but Inquisitor VMC makes players take a code of conduct, where Inquisitors do NOT have to follow one.

It says she gains the inquisitor's code of conduct, which is, as per APG "an inquisitor must still hold such guidelines in high regard, despite the fact that she can go against them if it serves the greater good of the faith."


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Page 71, footnotes for Table 2-3: Cavalier is included with the classes that get 6+Int mod skill points per level instead of those that get 4+Int mod skill points per level.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
David knott 242 wrote:
Page 71, footnotes for Table 2-3: Cavalier is included with the classes that get 6+Int mod skill points per level instead of those that get 4+Int mod skill points per level.

That's not an error, it's a stealth errata ;) Cavalier just got a buff.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Avadriel wrote:

Page 9 and 12, accurate stance rage power seems to make reckless stance an actively bad option.

Reckless Stance is not limited by what weapons it can apply to. You could use Reckless Stance with a bow, but not with Accurate Stance, for example.

Accurate Stance = Melee weapons and thrown weapons only.
Reckless Stance = Anything at all.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Not sure if error or not, but Inquisitor VMC makes players take a code of conduct, where Inquisitors do NOT have to follow one.
It says she gains the inquisitor's code of conduct, which is, as per APG "an inquisitor must still hold such guidelines in high regard, despite the fact that she can go against them if it serves the greater good of the faith."

Thanks for the clarification!


Avadriel wrote:
Zaister wrote:
Avadriel wrote:
page 20 Unchained rogue lacks the ability to sneak attack targets with concealment mentioned in the recent precision damage FAQ

Actually, it doesn't. Compare this

Standard rogue wrote:
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.

with this:

Unchained rogue wrote:
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with total concealment.
Zhangar wrote:

Yah, the unchained rogue functionally gets Shadowstrike for free, since explicitly only total concealment stops her sneak attack.

Ah yes, the issue is that that wording does not fulfill the criteria set forth by the FAQ

FAQ wrote:


Yes, in general concealment does negate all kinds of precision damage, unless you have a special ability that particularly says otherwise like the Shadow Strike feat or the Unchained rogue’s sneak attack.

The FAQ clearly says that you need an ability that specifically says you can, not one that does not say you cannot. Otherwise, swashbuckler's precise strike which makes no mention of concealment at all would not be stopped by partial concealment, and according to Mark Seifter, it is.

Since the unchained rogue is called out as an example not as an exception, and it fails to exemplify the quality for which it was chosen as an example, it is a bad example, and its ability to sneak attack a target with 20% concealment is called into question.

I see what you mean in the RAW, but the RAI seem pretty clear here.


"Yes, in general" Means exactly what it states. The majority of precision dmg effects state concealment blocks them, so saying "in general X is true" is accurate.

Like how saying "in general veins carry deoxygenated blood, except for the Pulmonary Vein."


Ravingdork wrote:
Avadriel wrote:

Page 9 and 12, accurate stance rage power seems to make reckless stance an actively bad option.

Reckless Stance is not limited by what weapons it can apply to. You could use Reckless Stance with a bow, but not with Accurate Stance, for example.

Accurate Stance = Melee weapons and thrown weapons only.
Reckless Stance = Anything at all.

Useful for natural attacks tool. Also since Reckless Stance is an untyped bonus it stacks with the Bard's Inspire Courage where Accuracy stance being a competency bonus will not.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

While not actually an error, some eidolons subtypes swap out their claws for a slam attack (Angel, Archon, Elemental, Inevitable, and Psychopomp), but the "Biped" base form (from page 34 of Unchained) still presumes claws.

This could lead to confusion, and would benefit from clarification.


Skill Unlock, Heal, p. 84
The Heal description reads

Quote:
(...) the target recovers hit points and ability damage as if (...)

at ranks 5, 15, and 20.

However, at 10 ranks it states:

Quote:
(...) the target recovers hit points as if (...)

Not sure if it's intentional that you can't recover ability damage when you're between 10 and 15 ranks?

Combat Tricks, Slashing Grace, p. 131
Slashing Grace states:

Quote:
You can spend 2 stamina points to select another light or one-handed slashing weapon.

As it stands right now a light slashing weapon wouldn't qualify for Slashing Grace. Kind of hoping this is a preview of the Slashing Grace errata rather than a typo. :)


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Page 69, Witch entry: "The bonus from the Flight hex is a +4 racial bonus to Athletics checks to swim." Surely the bonus should be to Acrobatics checks to fly?


David knott 242 wrote:

Page 69, Witch entry: "The bonus from the Flight hex is a +4 racial bonus to Athletics checks to swim." Surely the bonus should be to Acrobatics checks to fly?

probably correct, the flight hex normally gives a +4 bonus to swim checks (because you are light per the fluff)


Kudaku wrote:

Skill Unlock, Heal, p. 84

The Heal description reads
Quote:
(...) the target recovers hit points and ability damage as if (...)

at ranks 5, 15, and 20.

However, at 10 ranks it states:

Quote:
(...) the target recovers hit points as if (...)
Not sure if it's intentional that you can't recover ability damage when you're between 10 and 15 ranks?

Don't have the book yet, does it mention an ability damage number?

It might be tiered, heal X amount of HP damage and ability damage at first tier. Next tier, heal more HP damage and same amount of ability damage. Last tier, heal an increased amount of HP damage and more ability damage than first tier.


I don't think so... 5 & 15 and 10 & 20 have essentially identical language, so if it's intentional to leave it out at 10 ranks then it should also have been left out at 20 ranks.

Heal Skill unlocks, please don't read if you want to keep the suspense:
It's "as if it had rested for a full day / full day with long-term care" for 5 and 10 ranks, and "as if it had rested for 3 days/3 days with long-term care" at 15 and 20 ranks.

Unrelated and incredibly nitpicky, but... At p. 39 Devolution is listed in the wrong place on the summoner spell list. It should come between Control Summoned Creature and Dispel Magic.

Silver Crusade

Probably not a mistake but I am still quite unhappy about this bit of unaltered text:

page 28 wrote:

Armor Bonus: The number noted here is the eidolon’s
base total armor bonus. This bonus can be split between an
armor bonus and a natural armor bonus, as decided by the
summoner.
This number is modif ied by the eidolon’s base
form and some options available through its evolution pool.
An eidolon cannot wear armor of any kind, as the armor
interferes with the summoner’s connection to the eidolon.

Unless I have been missing something since the APG came out, and so has everybody who has talked to me about this, the armor bonus is a trap. It is clearly the wrong choice, considering that the summoner class has access to Mage Armor.

Am I missing something ?


It has niche utility. If you have a Synthesist with access to his own natural armor, you'd go for the armor bonus (unless the Synthesist has its own rules in that regard; I forget).


Natural Armor stacks....


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Not sure if this is a mistake, but the Unchained Rogue has access to Ninja tricks (through the Ninja Trick talent), but can no longer take the Ki Pool Rogue talent so they won't be able to power many of those Ninja tricks. There are a few Ninja tricks which don't require the use of ki, but it does limit your options.

Silver Crusade

Somebody in the product thread said it looked like some spells on the summoner list were printed at multiple levels. I believe *ant haul* was one mentioned. Can somebody with the PDF confirm?


Insain Dragoon wrote:
Natural Armor stacks....

No it doesn't.


Joe M. wrote:
Somebody in the product thread said it looked like some spells on the summoner list were printed at multiple levels. I believe *ant haul* was one mentioned. Can somebody with the PDF confirm?

I believe the poster was mistaken. Ant Haul is listed at level 1, while Ant Haul (Communal) is listed at level 2.There is an unfortunate line break there that makes it easy to miss the (Communal) tag.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Insain Dragoon wrote:
Natural Armor stacks....

As Scavion said, natural armor does not stack. However, enhancement bonus to natural armor stacks with enhancement bonus to AC directly.

Silver Crusade

Ok fine, it may not be a total trap option for those Synthesist summoner dragons, if they take enough levels of summoner to get a at least a +6 bonus from the class, and have enough evolution points to increase the eidolon to their size.


Or if the Synethesist happens to be a Tiefling with Armor of the Pit, or if they happen to VMC into Sorcerer with a bloodline that grants natural armor...

There are ways. It's nichey, but it's far from a trap.

Silver Crusade

Repost from the product thread:

This is utterly nit picky, but I might as well just mention it:

Flurry of blows requires and unarmed strike or a monk weapon.

Unarmed strike lists the following options: fists, elbows, knees, and feet.

Style Strike, can be used when using flurry of blows, and the monk has to designate an unarmed strike to use as a style strike.

Most style strikes mention elbows, feet or kicks, but Head-Butt requires the use of a head-butt.... but a monk can't actually deal unarmed strike damage with his head. The Style strike description mentions "resolve the attack as normal" so this head-butt should do damage.

--

I know it is incredibly stupid, and I would not want monks to deliver their unarmed strikes exclusively through head butts... but on the same token, I just want to avoid debates with PFS GMs whether or not that attack only does 1d3 damage and provokes..


Page 86, skill unlocks, sleight of hand: rank 10 reward is a reduced the penalty from taking a sleight of hand check as a move action instead of a standard, including drawing a hidden weapon, but I cannot find the dc to draw a hidden weapon anywhere in the rules.

Paizo Employee Designer

Draw a hidden weapon is the first thing listed under Sleight of Hand in the CRB.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Draw a hidden weapon is the first thing listed under Sleight of Hand in the CRB.

But unless I missed it, there is no DC or even a roll required to do so.

Paizo Employee Designer

Which is a question for the CRB, not Unchained (incidentally, my take is that it's opposed to other people's Perception, which is why there isn't a set DC; you always get your weapon out). It wouldn't be under the skill if it didn't require a check.

The Exchange

Xethik wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
Natural Armor stacks....
As Scavion said, natural armor does not stack. However, enhancement bonus to natural armor stacks with enhancement bonus to AC directly.

Some very specific sources of natural armor do specifically say they stack. Either bark skin or the alchemist mutagen, i'm not totally sure.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

"Unchained Rogue has access to Ninja tricks (through the Ninja Trick talent), but can no longer take the Ki Pool Rogue talent"

Still waiting on the 29th for my PDF, can you elaborate on why Ki Pool is no longer available for the Unchained Rogue?


Mark Seifter wrote:
Which is a question for the CRB, not Unchained (incidentally, my take is that it's opposed to other people's Perception, which is why there isn't a set DC; you always get your weapon out). It wouldn't be under the skill if it didn't require a check.

Strangely, palming an item (weapon included, I suppose) already has a DC, with one able to substitute the DC with an opposed Perception if willing.

Could it be this carryover (and the skill trick) mean that Pathfinder originally intended to allow Sleight of Hand to draw out weapons quicker than normal?
A skill substitute to Quick Draw, in other words?

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