Build Advice: Believer's Hands and Multiple Attacks


Silver Crusade

Hi all. I'm looking for a build that includes both Believer's Hands (ACG, allows one to use Paladin's Lay on Hands) and some version of Two Weapon Fighting (the feat itself, Monk's FoB, Brawler, hell...even Dervish Dance Bard's inherent haste class ability...i forgot what its called...Rain of Blows maybe).

My front runners so far are Ranger, Slayer, Monk, Brawler and aforementioned Dervish Dancing Bard. If you'd like to drop some suggestions, thanks!! I prefer to build using PFS rules, but whatever floats your boat.

What exactly are you going for here thematically? I'm asking as you don't really seem to care where you extra attacks are coming from just so long as you have them and I'm wondering why.

Have you considered just skipping Believer's Hands and going two weapon fighting Paladin? Sure Paladin lacks bonus feats, but more attacks means more Smite and Smite makes up for some of the downsides of two weapon fighting.

1. You get charisma to hit vs your Smite target, making up for the twf penalties as well as having slightly lower to hit from being slightly more MAD.

2. More attacks means more Smite damage and Smite damage isn't reduced on off hand attacks.

3. Smite bypasses all DR so you aren't put into the position of your two +2 weapons not being able to get around the DR types that normally require a specific material or +3 to bypass.

The lack of extra feats is problematic though as TWF is feat intensive, plus you would also need weapon finesse unless you wanted to be horribly MAD; TWF needs 15 dex to start and just goes up from there, which is bad if you are also depending on strength to hit and damage. That said, if you go dex based then you really want a dex to damage option like Agile weapons, but if you are starting at low level that will take a while. A dip into one of the classes you originally mentioned could make up for some of these downsides though.

Silver Crusade

chaoseffect wrote:
What exactly are you going for here thematically?

It is so awesome there's someone out there that still cares about theme. I thought I was the only one. That being said, for this dude I don't have one yet. Something will come up. Mostly...swift heal, then full attack...have lots of feats.

chaoseffect wrote:
Have you considered just skipping Believer's Hands and going two weapon fighting Paladin?

Yes, I've considered it. Hell, I've even played it.

chaoseffect wrote:
TWF needs 15 dex to start...

So you're suggesting Ranger or Slayer? I was leaning that way too...

What about a Bloodrager with the Arcane Bloodline and Primalist/Spell Eater archetypes? Arcane Bloodline can get you always under the effects of Haste while raging at level 8 (by comparison the Dervish Dancer bard you were considering would get a similar ability at 6). Spell Eater gives you Fast Healing instead of DR as well as a weak swift action self heal, but if you decided to take the Celestial Totem (sub-optimal as you lose out on Beast Totem for Pounce) it would increase the strength of the heal considerably; it would also boost your Believer's Hands if you still wanted to go that route and it would have a nice synergy with Blood Rager actually as the class actually uses charisma. Primalist of course gives you the option of Celestial Totem or just other awesome Rage Powers (they're like having a lot of feats, but often better!) in place of the iffier bloodline powers offered by Arcane.

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