How does Liberty's blessing work?


Rules Questions


Hi, here is the ability description:

Liberty’s Blessing (Sp): You touch a willing creature as a standard action, granting it a boon. A creature with this boon can, as a swift action, make a saving throw against a single spell or effect it is suffering from that grants a save. The DC of the saving throw is equal to the original DC of the spell or effect. If the saving throw is successful, the effect ends. This boon lasts for 1 minute or until successfully used to remove a spell or effect, whichever duration is shorter. You can use this ability for a number of times equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

We have an arguing on this in our group, about if it’s effect apply before or after a save vs a condition on a character.

My interpretation of the use of this ability is that you need to cast the boon on the person PRIOR to the initial save to use the reroll as a swift action. Or before a subsequent save if it is an ongoing condition granting a new save. In short, pretty much like guidance is used.

The player having this ability says this can be used after any effect (spells, disease or poison ) that initially gave a save, including permament ones and allows as many reroll as he can use this ability ( which is pretty much 10+ per day).

I can’t see a lvl 1 domain ability countering all level of spells , poisons, disease and what not allowing a single saving throw in the game. I need some backup here.


I side with "the player" on this one


I'm with the player as well. And it's not countering all things. It's giving another saving throw. Presumably with the same chance at making it as before because you have the same modifiers against the same DC.


Can you elaborate please?

Because his position is essentially saying using this lvl 1 domain power on the subject of a temporal stasis ( lvl 8 spell, 5k gold components and permanent) would allow the subject a reroll for each use of the domain power even years after the event ( initial roll ) despite the spell not allowing further saves.

Grand Lodge

What's there to elaborate? They said they agree with your player. I do as well.

Also, it wouldn't work on Temporal Stasis. It doesn't grant a new save, it grants the target the ability to spend a swift action to get a new save. If the target can't take actions (such as in the case of Temporal Stasis), it won't do anything.


Specific trumps general.

Also, the character still has to succeed on the save. It's really not a big deal. It's powerful against long duration abilities that would normally screw a player hard, against everything else it's just a reroll.

Also, keep in mind that in the specific of temporal stasis the creature cannot use a swift action, so while it could benefit from receiving the Liberty's Blessing, it wouldn't actually ever be able to use it.

Edit: Ninja'd by Jeff on the ability to actually take the reroll.


Ok, let's say curse, blindness / deafness. Theses spells are permanent and do not allow further saves while not affecting the pc swift action. If there was a limitation for the ability to 1 single reroll per effect, maybe. But at 10 times per day, you get a cure disease, cure poison, remove curse, etc. all in one if we are the least honest about the odds of missing 10 rerolls in a row.

The point to elaborate is what is an ongoing effect, I did not find any definite answer on this. I can see spells like hold person, some poison and disease, qualifying for this as they specifically call for a new save.

Grand Lodge

Does it have a duration other than Instantaneous? If yes, Liberty's Blessing works on it.


And it also works for forced march and lack of sleep saves, etc. I'll roll with this but I really feel this is completely OP for a lvl 1 power.

Guess I'll throw away the campaign mode and go back to 4 encounters back to back modules.

Thanks guys.

Grand Lodge

That seems to be a rather extreme overreaction.

And neither forced march nor lack of sleep allow a saving throw, so it wouldn't work on them.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kletus Bob wrote:

Ok, let's say curse, blindness / deafness. Theses spells are permanent and do not allow further saves while not affecting the pc swift action. If there was a limitation for the ability to 1 single reroll per effect, maybe. But at 10 times per day, you get a cure disease, cure poison, remove curse, etc. all in one if we are the least honest about the odds of missing 10 rerolls in a row.

The point to elaborate is what is an ongoing effect, I did not find any definite answer on this. I can see spells like hold person, some poison and disease, qualifying for this as they specifically call for a new save.

An ongoing effect is any effect with a listed duration that has not yet ended. Something like "Fatigue" often has no save and isn't eligible anyway.

Yes, it's broad. And yes, it's meant to be. Unlike many heal/buff cleric domains, the effect is not guaranteed to work. The more likely it is to work, the less likely it is that you care.

Keep in mind that this is typically only given to a character who can *already* remove those things. All it does is save spell slots.

If you want to play a story-based campaign then you must acknowledge that this is that character's shtick. Having something they *can't* cure is the unusual case. Play off that, really let it hammer in how good they are at curing, then having the bad guy come up with a no-save curse that isn't too dangerous to high level folk but is brutal to your average joe.. and spreads. Now you have a story.


Those conditions are cured by a free costing spell. It says nothing about the condition needing new saves. If the spell or effect grants a save, and the PC is suffering from it, he can make a new save as a swift action. Might it be strong, yes, but it's not game breaking. by the time those conditions comes a cleric can cure them easily with some prep. But you are being liberated.


Forced march ask for constitution save every hour. And he uses it everytime to avoid fatigue.

For over reaction, StabidityDoom kind of touch my beef issue. If you play a campaign setting and there is a single ability to answer any effect, it kills the immersion. Be it weather, elements, ennemies pursuing you for long march, being poisoned in a social event, being starved, suffering from drug addiction, etc. That single abiity answer all circumstances that aren't instaneous with enough rerolls to make them irrelevant. Might as well skip that part.

Also not mentionning the other players feeling useless after seeing their cure blindness spell or abilities vs charm/mind effects not only being specific applications but higher level powers and yet not even close to this ability in power. In fact, this might be the bigger problem.

But I guess this is another discussion, and I am aware there is other cases like this in the game. It is also not an issue in combat, thanks to action economy. The intial question seems answered, thanks.

Grand Lodge

But it doesn't work against forced march. Your player needs to reread the forced march rules. Forced march doesn't cause fatigued. The damage gained from forced causes fatigue. Damage isn't "a single spell or effect it is being suffered from that grants a save."

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Constitution checks aren't a save.

Grand Lodge

Also that. See? It totally doesn't work on forced march.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Kletus Bob wrote:

Forced march ask for constitution save every hour. And he uses it everytime to avoid fatigue.

Constitution checks are ability checks not saving throws.

Grand Lodge

Have we ever gotten any clarification on this ability?

My Sacramental Alchemist would really like to be able to liberate people from diseases and curses. But the wording on this could have been a lot clearer.


How can it be any clearer? As a swift action, the recipient person/creature may make a save vs any effect that allows a save -thus ending the effect.
The Sacrament Alchemist has this ability for 10 minutes but is limited on the attempts they can make to 3+WIS mod during that 10 minutes.
I don't see why there's a debate, the wording says ANY effect that allows a save, whether it be one save or several. Too bad if it is a major effect that only allowed 1 save-if it allowed a save, then the ability can use it on that effect.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!


Yeah I agree with VoodooMonkey, if it allows a save it's fair game. This ability costs a standard action from the caster and a swift action from the touched ally (and another standard action to imbibe the cognatogen for a sacramental alchemist) and you STILL have to succeed at a saving throw to have any benefit. If you couldn't use this on ongoing effects it'd be pretty bad.

(One clarification, The Sacrimental Alchemist can use this 3+INT mod times during the effects of his/her sacrimental cognatogen).

Grand Lodge

Seems like there's consensus. It's a crazy effective way to clear Curses, Diseases, ongoing effects that don't prevent swift actions (and to a lesser extent poisons.)


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

This one does seem crazy powerful to me for a level 1 ability. Reading it strictly, the boon lasts for 1 minute or until *successfully* used to clear a condition. So an affected creature could do a swift action each round for up to 10 rounds, getting up to 10 new saves to clear almost *any* ongoing spell or effect?


It is extraordinarily powerful, yes. It'd be among the most powerful level 1 domain powers even if it only allowed one attempt per use of the domain ability.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / How does Liberty's blessing work? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions