telekinesis violent thrust vs bullrush on creature


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Why is it that the violent thrust can be negated by a will save while using telekinesis for a combat maneuver to bullrush does not? They are functionally the same with the exception that the violent thrust presumably uses more force.


Combat Maneuvers are opposed by CMD. So a big strong fighter may easily oppose your sustained bull rush, but a Will Save? Forget about it. Also, violent thrust gets a lot more range (10 ft per level). Since Bull Rush only moves the target 5 ft +5 per point above CMD, you'd need 90+CMD to get the same result with a combat maneuver at minimum caster level.

If you are asking why a magic spell functions in the ontologic sense...seek a priest, maybe?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm more asking since the use combat maneuver section of the spell they are resisting via str and dex from cmd, but for the violent thrust it is all mind a.k.a. will to resist.

A bullrush is pushing in a direction and a violent thrust is also pushing in a direction much harder. With that in mind shouldn't they be resisted the same way? Like maybe having violent thrust give a large bonus to overcome cmd.

On another note the violent thrust has a weight limit so the fighter that has a high cmd could be immune to the violent thrust just for carrying their equipment. Then it is easier to push the wizard short distances rather than long because he is easier to push.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

fujisempai wrote:

I'm more asking since the use combat maneuver section of the spell they are resisting via str and dex from cmd, but for the violent thrust it is all mind a.k.a. will to resist.

A bullrush is pushing in a direction and a violent thrust is also pushing in a direction much harder. With that in mind shouldn't they be resisted the same way? Like maybe having violent thrust give a large bonus to overcome cmd.

On another note the violent thrust has a weight limit so the fighter that has a high cmd could be immune to the violent thrust just for carrying their equipment. Then it is easier to push the wizard short distances rather than long because he is easier to push.

Violent thrust can affect multiple creatures and objects (which means with particularly light creatures, you can hurl a whole pack of them), which makes it a little different than a bull rush. Conceptually, I imagine the target to be thrown is first levitated up off the ground before being hurtled through the air.

Bull Rush is single target, and I picture it as a more raw application of force. Rather than picking the target up, you just hammer on them. They don't get a Will save to resist the effect, but they can dig their toes in try to hold position.

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