Adamantine Doors


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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I was looking at an adventure module in which the dungeon featured one large set of adamantine double doors and six additional sets of adamantine doors.

A standard door is 36" wide and 80" tall. The Pathfinder rules list the width of an iron door as 2". Adamantine appears to weigh the same amount by volume as steel. A steel slab 36" x 80" x 2" would weigh 1,630 pounds.

If we estimate the large doors as 60" wide, 96" tall, and 2" thick, each of those doors would weigh 3,260 pounds.

Ultimate Equipment lists adamantine at 300gp per pound.

Therefore, each adamantine door would be worth 489,000gp and each large adamantine door would be worth 978,000gp.

Not a bad haul for 13th to 16th level characters. ;)

I think I'd edit those to "steel doors".

References:
http://www.dimensionsinfo.com/standard-door-dimensions/
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/environment.html#table-13-2-doors
http://www.onlinemetals.com/calculator.cfm
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/gear/entertainmentAndT radeGoods.html


Or they're magical, and rust outside of the dungeon?

Not sure what module you mean, so maybe they have a reference to that or something similar.


Yeah, we need something specific. Usually there's a reason you can't take that stuff.

You could have them be adamantine-plated steel. Let the PCs go to all the trouble hauling it out of the dungeon before telling them.

Sovereign Court

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The first book of Iron Gods dances around this issue quite neatly. Most of the walls are made of glaucite, an iron/adamantine alloy that's obnoxiously tough, but so hard to salvage and reforge that it's still not worth stealing the walls.

Dark Archive

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In the remake of the AD&D adventure, Tomb of Horrors, there were a set of huge double doors towards the end that were steel, but covered in a illusion to appear to be Mithril. It said in the notes to it that they were no longer actual Mithril because the demon's guarding the place got tired of the adventurer's stealing the doors.


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After many weeks (in and out of game) the characters had infiltrated the opposing Trader House and located their sapphire mine. The wealth within made them drool and they approached intent on getting into the mine to the vaults which stored the precious gems ... and found their way blocked by a very solid and enormous set of Iron doors. They promptly forgot all about the gems within as you see this was Athas and a Dark Sun campaign.


I ran across another adventure module with 35 doors made of cold iron (50gp/lb)and 72 prison cells built of adamantine bars (300gp/lb).

At least in this module though, the building eventually fell into the abyss. If the characters don't loot the building out in the course of the adventure, they have to travel to the abyss to get the treasure.

Of course, they travel to the abyss in the adventure anyway...


Will.Spencer wrote:

I ran across another adventure module with 35 doors made of cold iron (50gp/lb)and 72 prison cells built of adamantine bars (300gp/lb).

At least in this module though, the building eventually fell into the abyss. If the characters don't loot the building out in the course of the adventure, they have to travel to the abyss to get the treasure.

Of course, they travel to the abyss in the adventure anyway...

...What is the adventure? I wouldn't mind to get my hands on that.

Also... That's a lot to haul... especially if the adventure is "timed" around the building sinking into the abyss.

Grand Lodge

Just wait until you see the monsters that are attracted by the noise of players trying to bypass hardness...


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One mistake I made in 3.5 was using adamantine doors to discourage a rather aggressive group of players from bashing down the door that I didn't want them to go into.

Mage: So these are adamantine doors, right?

Me: Yeah.

Mage: Standard doors, nothing magical or mechanically wonky about them?

Me: No... (getting concerned)

Mage: Cool. Let's wait here a little bit so I can study and prepare the Shatter spell for the door hinges. We'll haul the doors off and be filthy rich.

Me: (mouth hanging open, dumbfounded)

*sad song for my oversight*

They took the doors. I learned two things from that. One, never use adamantine doors ever again. Two, never underestimate the versatility of a wizard's spellbook.

Sovereign Court

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Now I'm tempted to come up with an adventure built around load-bearing adamantine columns...

Also, if the party can get them out without burying themselves in a collapsing building, then they've earned their loot fair and square.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

We ran into an old adventure with a similar set of doors. I don't know that we cashed in quite so spectacularly, but we did craft a plethora of Adamantine weapons.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

DM could very well rule that object is only unattended if separate from cave, building or structure. If attached cannot be targeted as components. My thoughts are that the knock spell targets doors specifically and has strict operating parameters.... Therefore a more generic spell like shatter shouldn't be able to achieve same unless much higher level than knock...


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1) Break the walls around the hinges
2) Shrink Item or Treasure stitching
3) Profit.


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Note to self: Always carry a hammer and an adamantine chisel. No reason.


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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Adamantine wire-saw, 150gp.

Edit: Now with LINK !
(now how much would you pay ?)


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SlimGauge wrote:
Adamantine wire-saw, 150gp.

SOLD!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

If someone comes at a steel door with a steel wire saw... i think that person would be challenged in most situations. Even if we assume those hinges are visible from that person's approach, which makes no sense.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

The saw's not for opening, the saw is for stea ... er requisitioning afterwards.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

I think one could harvest about 150gp worth of adamantine before the adamantine saw fails. :)


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How many shops could afford to buy something that expensive anyway?


I'm running the Iron Gods campaign in my group right now, and at first level, when they discovered the adamantium carts at the top of the hill, the first thing they thought of was how they were going to get them off the hill and through the town to somewhere they could sell them.... (Of course, without the smelters or anyone in the town noticing.)


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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

1) Break the walls around the hinges

2) Shrink Item or Treasure stitching
3) Profit.

Stone shape away the rock around where the hinges or door frame are.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
DM could very well rule that object is only unattended if separate from cave, building or structure. If attached cannot be targeted as components. My thoughts are that the knock spell targets doors specifically and has strict operating parameters.... Therefore a more generic spell like shatter shouldn't be able to achieve same unless much higher level than knock...
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

1) Break the walls around the hinges

2) Shrink Item or Treasure stitching
3) Profit.

I thought of that too at the time and came to the same conclusion as TCG did. They were clever enough to outwit me, so I let them have their victory. Unfortunately they just ran into a string of bad luck when it came to loot for a few levels afterwards. ^_^


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Items made of adamantine costs somewhere around 300gp per pound of the finished item.

There is no price at all, as far as I am aware, listed for unworked adamantine or adamantine that will need to be reworked.

Sovereign Court

Dave Justus wrote:

Items made of adamantine costs somewhere around 300gp per pound of the finished item.

There is no price at all, as far as I am aware, listed for unworked adamantine or adamantine that will need to be reworked.

This. I always figured that much of the adamantine cost would be the difficulty of working with it. There's no way I'd give them anywhere near the 300gp/lb.


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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
I think one could harvest about 150gp worth of adamantine before the adamantine saw fails. :)

:P

When does normal wear and tear become subject to Mending (for an infinitely useful saw)


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Ascalaphus wrote:
The first book of Iron Gods dances around this issue quite neatly. Most of the walls are made of glaucite, an iron/adamantine alloy that's obnoxiously tough, but so hard to salvage and reforge that it's still not worth stealing the walls.

I was going to suggest pretty much exactly that only was going to call it "badamantine".


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This is why an adamantine heavy pick is my weapon of choice on most of my characters


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Dave Justus wrote:

Items made of adamantine costs somewhere around 300gp per pound of the finished item.

There is no price at all, as far as I am aware, listed for unworked adamantine or adamantine that will need to be reworked.

This. I always figured that much of the adamantine cost would be the difficulty of working with it. There's no way I'd give them anywhere near the 300gp/lb.

This is a legitimate observation that I have to admit I had not considered.

Such a huge adamantium door would probably only be worth "full value" if you could find a buyer who actually wanted a huge adamantium door (and had a doorframe the right size for it). If that person just wanted adamantium to use for other purposes, he's not going to buy it for the same amount he'll end up selling it.

Consider this:

From a few sites I looked at, gold ore has a value of between $0.156 to $0.047 per ounce (that's just counting the actual gold content value; at the commercial level, the value is even lower because of the costs associated with extracting the pure gold).

Refined gold in ingot form is currently a hair over $1200.00 per ounce.

However, when looking at finished gold jewelry, the prices are much higher than the gold content. When I did a search for gold jewelry, the first thing I found was a 2.2 ounce necklace retailing for $4800.00; the gold content alone is worth roughly $2600.00.

Sovereign Court

Saldiven wrote:
However, when looking at finished gold jewelry, the prices are much higher than the gold content. When I did a search for gold jewelry, the first thing I found was a 2.2 ounce necklace retailing for $4800.00; the gold content alone is worth roughly $2600.00.

And gold - being soft is rather easy to work with. (And I doubt the necklace was 24k) I can only imagine how difficult a material as durable as adantine would be to work with.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Saldiven wrote:
However, when looking at finished gold jewelry, the prices are much higher than the gold content. When I did a search for gold jewelry, the first thing I found was a 2.2 ounce necklace retailing for $4800.00; the gold content alone is worth roughly $2600.00.
And gold - being soft is rather easy to work with. (And I doubt the necklace was 24k) I can only imagine how difficult a material as durable as adantine would be to work with.

Again, a very legitimate concern.

All things considered, it would be well within reason for a GM to rule that such a massive amount of already formed adamantium would be worth 25% or less of the values presented by the OP.

Consider this, as well, to advance upon my previous post. Buyer's of "scrap gold," which is gold that is intended to be melted down and sold by the ingot, are paying roughly 75% of the commodity trading value for 24 karat purity scrap. They're paying less than 25% for 8 karat scrap.

And, as CLH pointed out, this is for a metal that is very easily processed (it's melting point is low enough that you can liquefy gold on your home's gas stove).

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Kayerloth wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
I think one could harvest about 150gp worth of adamantine before the adamantine saw fails. :)

:P

When does normal wear and tear become subject to Mending (for an infinitely useful saw)

Also I'm not sure you can "create precious metals" with mending... ;)

Scarab Sages

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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
DM could very well rule that object is only unattended if separate from cave, building or structure. If attached cannot be targeted as components. My thoughts are that the knock spell targets doors specifically and has strict operating parameters.... Therefore a more generic spell like shatter shouldn't be able to achieve same unless much higher level than knock...

That would be a really really weird ruling. What creature would be providing the will save for it?

Also Knock doesn't damage the items, so I see shatter as a totally different sort of effect, which may be used to achieve similar objectives. I wouldn't penalize the players for being creative.

The PRD wrote:
Saving Throws: Nonmagical, unattended items never make saving throws. They are considered to have failed their saving throws, so they are always fully affected by spells and other attacks that allow saving throws to resist or negate. An item attended by a character (being grasped, touched, or worn) makes saving throws as the character (that is, using the character's saving throw bonus).

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

well that's my whole point: I don't think a door hinge is an unattended item; a toothbrush lying on the floor or chair or table or piece of art would be, but targeting a hinge would be the same as targeting a door...

so maybe targeting a door is fine, but targeting the handle, hinge, metal reinforcements or individual wood fibres to create "just" a "4 inch square window" for instance would be stretching things a bit

i might detract from my argument for mentioning it, but to my knowledge there's very few things in the game that target "components" of an object, and the only thing that comes to my mind is the blast lock utility shot deed from gunslinger... (although unclear that it can only target a padlock or a lock built-in within a greater door or chest, I would allow this to be used with "built-in" locks...)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

...as an addendum, you could for instance cast shatter as much as you want on an individual 5-foot section of a masonry wall, a wood door, etc. as each of these is statted out at the beginning of most dungeons (failing that, in the CRB) but to cast shatter on an individual hinge, one would have to follow the CRB directive on hinges: (which means a DM could rule they're "away" from the players i.e. unavailable to mess with...)

PFSRD:

Common Features of Doors

Hinges: Most doors have hinges, but sliding doors do not. They usually have tracks or grooves instead, allowing them to slide easily to one side.

Standard Hinges: these hinges are metal, joining one edge of the door to the door frame or wall. Remember that the door swings open toward the side with the hinges. (So, if the hinges are on the PCs' side, the door opens toward them; otherwise it opens away from them.) Adventurers can take the hinges apart one at a time with successful Disable Device checks (assuming the hinges are on their side of the door, of course). Such a task has a DC of 20 because most hinges are rusted or stuck. Breaking a hinge is difficult. Most have hardness 10 and 30 hit points. The break dC for a hinge is the same as for breaking down the door.
Nested Hinges: these hinges are much more complex than ordinary hinges, and are found only in areas of excellent construction. These hinges are built into the wall and allow the door to swing open in either direction. PCs can't get at the hinges to fool with them unless they break through the door frame or wall. Nested hinges are typically found on stone doors but sometimes on wooden or iron doors as well.
Pivot Hinges: Pivots aren't really hinges at all, but simple knobs jutting from the top and bottom of the door that fit into holes in the door frame. allowing the door to spin. The advantages of pivots are that they can't be dismantled like hinges and they're simple to make. The disadvantage is that since the door pivots on its center of gravity (typically in the middle), nothing larger than half the door's width can fit through without squeezing. Doors with pivots are usually stone and often quite wide to overcome this disadvantage. Another solution is to place the pivot toward one side and have the door be thicker at that end and thinner toward the other end so that it opens more like a normal door. Secret doors in walls often turn on pivots, since the lack of hinges makes it easier to hide the door's presence. Pivots also allow objects such as bookcases to be used as secret doors.

Scarab Sages

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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
well that's my whole point: I don't think a door hinge is an unattended item

What I'm pointing out that if it is attended, you'll have to have some entity providing it a will save. Who is providing the hinge with a will save. You may have a point with the targeting option, I guess it would depend on the construction of the hinge and what you consider a solid object.

If we take "a solid object" to mean one contiguous object that is non-fluid at ambient temperatures, then most modern hinges are made up of at least 3 different solid objects (two plates and a hinge pin) plus additional screws that hold the hinge to the door and frame.

The really great spell to use in this case isn't shatter it's fabricate (shape the doors into a cart and wheel it out)


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The argument about the difficulty and time it takes to work adamantium, is somewhat lessened by the existence of the fabricate spell.


Caedwyr wrote:
The argument about the difficulty and time it takes to work adamantium, is somewhat lessened by the existence of the fabricate spell.

Because there are just so many 9th+ level wizards interested in becoming smiths.


Maybe that's why worked adamantium is so expensive, it requires high level magic manipulate.


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I would think an adamantine door would be fairly valuable even without reforging, though. Who wouldn't want an unbreakable entrance?


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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I would think an adamantine door would be fairly valuable even without reforging, though. Who wouldn't want an unbreakable entrance?

I most certainly wouldn't. It would draw adventures like flees.

Sovereign Court

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fictionfan wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I would think an adamantine door would be fairly valuable even without reforging, though. Who wouldn't want an unbreakable entrance?
I most certainly wouldn't. It would draw adventures like flees.

You'd need to surround the doors with big monsters to make the adventurers 'flee'. :P


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
fictionfan wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I would think an adamantine door would be fairly valuable even without reforging, though. Who wouldn't want an unbreakable entrance?
I most certainly wouldn't. It would draw adventures like flees.
You'd need to surround the doors with big monsters to make the adventurers 'flee'. :P

Then what are the point of the doors in the first place?


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This makes me want to see an adventure where the given motive for the PCs to enter the dungeon is to loot the furnishings.


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fictionfan wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
fictionfan wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I would think an adamantine door would be fairly valuable even without reforging, though. Who wouldn't want an unbreakable entrance?
I most certainly wouldn't. It would draw adventures like flees.
You'd need to surround the doors with big monsters to make the adventurers 'flee'. :P
Then what are the point of the doors in the first place?

To keep out the big monsters. Duh.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tsriel wrote:

One mistake I made in 3.5 was using adamantine doors to discourage a rather aggressive group of players from bashing down the door that I didn't want them to go into.

Mage: So these are adamantine doors, right?

Me: Yeah.

Mage: Standard doors, nothing magical or mechanically wonky about them?

Me: No... (getting concerned)

Mage: Cool. Let's wait here a little bit so I can study and prepare the Shatter spell for the door hinges. We'll haul the doors off and be filthy rich.

Me: (mouth hanging open, dumbfounded)

*sad song for my oversight*

They took the doors. I learned two things from that. One, never use adamantine doors ever again. Two, never underestimate the versatility of a wizard's spellbook.

Many DM's forget that door hinges CAN be embedded within the door frame, making them untargetable. Or the doors can be sliding, clockwork, or just plain magical.


Quick question...

Instead of relying on spells only, why don't adventurers just hack the door off the frame if the quick magic option doesn't work.

It's only hardness 20. A first level fighter with 18 str and a greatsword can power-attack through that with a high damage roll.

Sure, it will take a while, but seriously, if they have the time it will be totally worth it (higher level adventurers might not want to wait as long, but they can also hack through adamantine much quicker).


You don't need to target the hinges. The walls around the door aren't going to be adamantine. Just sunder / shatter / stone-shape the walls until the doors aren't attached to anything.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

I would expect the door frame to be reinforced if the door is adamantine. Plain stone is brittle and would break due to the weight and extreme hardness of the door.

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