Any update on Errata / FAQ clarifications for Advanced Class Guide?


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@ Mark Seifter

It seems a relatively thankless job that you've got there. I for one really like the way that y'all are handling the FAQ process, and just wanted you to know that there are many of us, silent though we may often be, who do appreciate all that you and the PDT do to keep this game going as smoothly as possible. Thank you for doing what you do!

So, on the topic of "hot button" issues in the FAQueue, is there any way for the public to know which issues are at or near the top of the list?

Designer

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galahad2112 wrote:

@ Mark Seifter

It seems a relatively thankless job that you've got there. I for one really like the way that y'all are handling the FAQ process, and just wanted you to know that there are many of us, silent though we may often be, who do appreciate all that you and the PDT do to keep this game going as smoothly as possible. Thank you for doing what you do!

So, on the topic of "hot button" issues in the FAQueue, is there any way for the public to know which issues are at or near the top of the list?

Technically, it wasn't a requirement of my job description to handle the FAQs. But I'm passionate about making sure you guys get answers, so I sort of kept pushing for momentum and became the wrangler that way; it's definitely usually thankless, and I certainly appreciate the thanks!

As for the FAQ queue, it's impossible to fully predict it, but I often put teasers of some of the ones floating near the top in my Ask Mark Questions Here thread after announcing the latest FAQ there. For example, a FAQ on Light and Darkness, the final showdown, was #1 for a while, but that one is going to take special mechanisms to get an answer so won't show up too soon (nonetheless, we're a lot closer than we were a month ago, in that we have a plan of action and some preliminary stuff).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd just like to throw my support behind the current FAQ process. Sure, I'd love it if Ultimate Campaign (specifically that gosh-darned terrain improvement question that I gave my best-guess answer to three times in one week) was closer to the top, and I really can't wait to see what you guys come up with for light and darkness, but for a non-monetisable service, what's happening is top-notch stuff.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Rushley son of Halum wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:

The ACG errata previews had more FAQ requests than the shield champion, which is not even in the Top 75 most frequently asked questions. We are answering the questions people are asking. They just aren't asking about that one very much.

You are the one of the people who started a picket for us to FAQ the most requested issues. And we listened, and are now focusing on those issues. I am sorry that the issues you want to hear about most are not actually the most requested. It is what people are calling "irony" these days, but if you had not started a call for us to answer the most-requested FAQs, perhaps we would have instead previewed more ACG errata by now including the ones you wanted (I really can't predict how things would have turned out). Personally, I'm thrilled that we got that 566 FAQ damage dice thing done, so I'm not unhappy with our new focus.

And you know that I meant addressing the most urgent issues in the acg not just the most faqed issues in general. If you can't keep your regular faq schedule and also fix the acg then maybe you should consider not releasing that kind of poor quality in the future.

You know, it might not have been clear you mean highest ACG and not highest in general. To you it might have been, but what you said might not have been as clear as you thought it was.

Also again since you're not getting it. The designer team portion of the fix has been done for a bit now. So them working on other FAQs isn't slowing down the ACG at all.

They've publicly said that the ACG was an unacceptable quality of work and that they are going to avoid such mishaps in the future, that's also partly why the ACG is taking a while, they are making sure it's top quality work.

I personally wouldn't call a few almost unoticed posts in a now abandoned thread on the messageboard a real public addmission of low quality work.


Insain Dragoon wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Rushley son of Halum wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:

The ACG errata previews had more FAQ requests than the shield champion, which is not even in the Top 75 most frequently asked questions. We are answering the questions people are asking. They just aren't asking about that one very much.

You are the one of the people who started a picket for us to FAQ the most requested issues. And we listened, and are now focusing on those issues. I am sorry that the issues you want to hear about most are not actually the most requested. It is what people are calling "irony" these days, but if you had not started a call for us to answer the most-requested FAQs, perhaps we would have instead previewed more ACG errata by now including the ones you wanted (I really can't predict how things would have turned out). Personally, I'm thrilled that we got that 566 FAQ damage dice thing done, so I'm not unhappy with our new focus.

And you know that I meant addressing the most urgent issues in the acg not just the most faqed issues in general. If you can't keep your regular faq schedule and also fix the acg then maybe you should consider not releasing that kind of poor quality in the future.

You know, it might not have been clear you mean highest ACG and not highest in general. To you it might have been, but what you said might not have been as clear as you thought it was.

Also again since you're not getting it. The designer team portion of the fix has been done for a bit now. So them working on other FAQs isn't slowing down the ACG at all.

They've publicly said that the ACG was an unacceptable quality of work and that they are going to avoid such mishaps in the future, that's also partly why the ACG is taking a while, they are making sure it's top quality work.

I personally wouldn't call a few almost unoticed posts in a now abandoned thread on the messageboard a real public addmission of low quality work.

It's been mentioned in more than one thread. But I can see what you're getting at. It wasn't a large scale attention grabbing public admission, but it still was an admission that is out for the public to see.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Rycaut wrote:
I suspect many people like myself haven't started using the new book because of the confusions. I've been theory crafting some builds but have run into a lot of blockers even at very low levels where I just don't know what is intended - so until the errata is clear many people may just not be using the advanced class guide (so faq requests may be lower)

I would have to agree, the reason there aren't many FAQs is probably because people simply are avoiding the material, i know i am in some bits.

The Exchange

At the end of the day all im saying is that we're in a position where even in PFS games we're having to alter the rules from the source material to make them function. Since PFS is supposed to be so strict on rules that isn't a good position to put people in. But people are having to play their classes and ignore parts of the ACG rules that don't work. It's not good.


Rushley son of Halum wrote:
At the end of the day all im saying is that we're in a position where even in PFS games we're having to alter the rules from the source material to make them function. Since PFS is supposed to be so strict on rules that isn't a good position to put people in. But people are having to play their classes and ignore parts of the ACG rules that don't work. It's not good.

For the case of shield champion which you've encouraged players to ignore inconvenient rules in PFS here with ignoring the proficiencies issues, and here with with ignoring when TWF applies for Shield Slam.

The archetype still works, just inconvenient. For proficiencies, Shield-Trained trait or proficiency feats or multiclassing is a workaround. For the TWF/Shield Slam/Shield Master only working with flurrying, there's already a precedent with monks only benefiting from an improved effective BAB while flurrying for Power Attack/Combat Expertise and overal accuracy purposes. It's not ideal but shouldn't be simply ignored in PFS just because you don't like it or annoyed by it.
If the errata comes out and fixes issues, great. Until then classes and archetypes from the ACG are still mostly playable but with some annoying editing mistakes.

Liberty's Edge

Rushley son of Halum wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:

The ACG errata previews had more FAQ requests than the shield champion, which is not even in the Top 75 most frequently asked questions. We are answering the questions people are asking. They just aren't asking about that one very much.

You are the one of the people who started a picket for us to FAQ the most requested issues. And we listened, and are now focusing on those issues. I am sorry that the issues you want to hear about most are not actually the most requested. It is what people are calling "irony" these days, but if you had not started a call for us to answer the most-requested FAQs, perhaps we would have instead previewed more ACG errata by now including the ones you wanted (I really can't predict how things would have turned out). Personally, I'm thrilled that we got that 566 FAQ damage dice thing done, so I'm not unhappy with our new focus.

And you know that I meant addressing the most urgent issues in the acg not just the most faqed issues in general. If you can't keep your regular faq schedule and also fix the acg then maybe you should consider not releasing that kind of poor quality in the future.

Rushley, no one (including Paizo) is happy about the number and magnitude of errors in the ACG. We all get that, and Paizo is clearly working on fixing it. It may well be taking longer than many folks would like, but maybe you might consider dialing back the venom and vitriol a bit


I dislike the current faq process because it is sooo sloooooooow.

A lot of the questions seem to be either X or Y. It doesn't really change the game which one is true, but it needs to be clarified regardless.


well one a week is lots better than it was before. And if you get enough faqs on enough easy ones then maybe they'll do multiple in one week

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Is there a way for a regular forum account to look at posts ranked by FAQ? That might make it a lot easier for people to find there issue, see where it is in line, and potentially revitalize the thread it's in to get some more exposure to it. It would also be nice for people to see what's on the list, and add their FAQ vote to questions that they might not ever have seen on the messageboards, but think are worth of answers.

Now, there could very well be unintended consequences to this that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head, but it seems like a useful tool.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

yeah, i think being able to navigate too potential FAQ candidates would be great.

The Exchange

Protoman wrote:
Rushley son of Halum wrote:
At the end of the day all im saying is that we're in a position where even in PFS games we're having to alter the rules from the source material to make them function. Since PFS is supposed to be so strict on rules that isn't a good position to put people in. But people are having to play their classes and ignore parts of the ACG rules that don't work. It's not good.

For the case of shield champion which you've encouraged players to ignore inconvenient rules in PFS here with ignoring the proficiencies issues, and here with with ignoring when TWF applies for Shield Slam.

The archetype still works, just inconvenient. For proficiencies, Shield-Trained trait or proficiency feats or multiclassing is a workaround. For the TWF/Shield Slam/Shield Master only working with flurrying, there's already a precedent with monks only benefiting from an improved effective BAB while flurrying for Power Attack/Combat Expertise and overal accuracy purposes. It's not ideal but shouldn't be simply ignored in PFS just because you don't like it or annoyed by it.
If the errata comes out and fixes issues, great. Until then classes and archetypes from the ACG are still mostly playable but with some annoying editing mistakes.

The TWF flurry issue may very well be what is intended but there is no way the proficiency issues are what was intended and I will not follow a rule that makes no sense. The proficiency issue isn't just inconvenient. It's stupid and I won't follow it and neither should anyone else. Again, it only exists because paizo staff refused to proof read the book before release. If they have an issue with us forcing the rules to make sense in PS they shouldn't let that kind of thing happen.

You're all being way to accepting of their statements. But have we gotten any kind of explanation as to why this was allowed to happen? I don't recall one, nothing acceptable at least.

Have we gotten a time frame on when this errata will be out? Chess, you say that its already past the design team. So all the rules themselves are done right? I don't know about you but proof reading and layout work shouldn't take much more than 2 or 3 weeks, even that is a lot of time in my opinion. I just don't understand why the pdf version isn't already out. And I certainly don't understand why they would continue to sell a book as flawed as the current printing of the ACG at all.

Community Manager

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While we appreciate that many people are passionate about the Advanced Class Guide and are unhappy with the speed at which FAQs are released, please dial back the hostility. The Paizo Staff is aware of the issues, but there are a lot of moving parts to releasing a product (even if it's "just" a PDF), so please be patient. When an update happens, we will be shouting from the rooftops about its availability.


Bandw2 wrote:
yeah, i think being able to navigate too potential FAQ candidates would be great.

Or even if in the search function for this site it gave preference to FAQed issues in it's results. This way people would likely find those threads when they go searching for the answer to their question. Like if you did a search for "whip" have the scorpion whip thread show up first in the results. That way you can't just find all the highest FAQs and spam them, but you'd more likely find a FAQed topics when you go searching.

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