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The player pointed out that the Guide says:
Before you level up a character for the first time, you may change any aspect of it except its Pathfinder Society Number.
The Guide also says:
Once per session, you can acquire any single item of this cost or less from your faction by spending the appropriate number of Prestige Points. Items purchased this way are worth 0 gp and cannot be sold.
Technically the player isn't actually 'selling' the item, merely 'changing any aspect' of it. So one 'could' make an argument that this falls within the guidelines put forth in the Guide.
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Negative, the rule you quoted applies only to the PC, not to equipment. You do not get the option to change equipment from one thing to another. Equipment is sold back at 100% value with level 1 retraining rules. Prestige purchased items cannot be sold as 0gp is still 0gp. The player can keep the wand or chuck it in the nearest wand recycling bin and maybe someone will buy it off a chronicle later.
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Before you level up a character for the first time, you may change any aspect of it except its Pathfinder Society Number. Changes may only be made between adventures and before playing as a character above 1st level. Any exceptions will be noted in the Pathfinder Society FAQ. You are able to keep all treasure, Prestige Points, special boons, and XP that you have earned and apply them to the character once you retrain as long as the character meets the criteria above. You are only able to retrain into a legal race.
Bolding mine for emphasis. Quoting the entire paragraph is a bit more inclusive. Note it specifically calls out that you retrain the character, changing any aspect of IT. Not gear. You keep all treasure, which the wand would fall under, and apply it to the character.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I think the problem is that the wand was purchased with PP (speak with animals .... why?)
A character’s Prestige Points reflect the goodwill, political
capital, and personal favors she has built up through
service to the organization. While a character’s Fame can
provide certain titles and privileges, most tangible benefits
of faction membership are acquired by spending Prestige
Points on boons, favors, aid, spellcasting, or other services.
In addition to the generic Prestige Awards available to
all Pathfinders regardless of faction (listed in Table 5–4),
each faction offers specific Prestige Awards available
only to members, which are listed with each full faction
description presented in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.
Regardless of a character’s Fame, the Prestige Point cost
for these boons and rewards remains the same—a member
of the Grand Lodge faction with a Fame score of 40 must
spend 1 PP to have a remove curse or dispel magic spell cast on
her behalf, just like a new initiate with a Fame score of 2.Once a Prestige Point is spent, it is spent permanently; it
is not recovered automatically like lost hit points or ability
score damage. The character may earn more Prestige
Points by completing additional faction missions.
Characters may not spend Prestige Points during
combat. For the sake of simplicity, many GMs might
consider limiting characters to spending Prestige Points
only once per gaming session.
Player characters may not pool Prestige Points to obtain
more expensive boons or services, even if they are members
of the same faction. As a general rule, Prestige Points are
designed to be spent by characters on themselves.A character’s ability to spend Prestige Points is
dependent on her being in contact with other members
of her faction, and unless noted otherwise, most
factions tend to have agents, contacts, or headquarters
in settlements that are at least the size of a large city.
To reflect the difficulty of contacting a faction agent in
a smaller settlement, Prestige Point costs increase by 5
in communities with fewer than 5 ,000 people. Note that
it’s possible for a player to spend her character’s Prestige
Points even if the PC is dead, petrified, or otherwise out
of commission. In essence, this represents the PC having
made prior arrangements with her faction to perform
certain actions on her behalf, such as recovering her dead
body and returning it to a specific location or having
it raised from the dead. In this event, the PC’s actual
location does not impact the Prestige Point cost
The part I bolded is pretty clear, once spend you generally can't regain PP (some chronicles have a wording of this nature for some boons, but generally nothing else). That alone could end the discussion.
You could also argue that the player is not selling back the same item, a wand with 50 charges is very different from a wand with 47 charges.
The whole reselling equipment prior to level 1 come from a very short FAQ entry, and it does not list an exception for prestige point expenditures (as in you still can't get those back).
I think, the can I resell something used topic was covered in a recent thread.
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I think the problem is that the wand was purchased with PP (speak with animals .... why?)
I've burned 30ish charges off of mine gathering information , telling my summoned friends to "go around the back", a few overly friendly forest inhabitants to "Spit the fighter out. Do iiiiiiiiit" , telling the cave bears to "eat the one with the skull on his head first" and having friendly chats afterwards over pots of honey.
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Note it specifically calls out that you retrain the character, changing any aspect of IT. Not gear. You keep all treasure, which the wand would fall under, and apply it to the character.*coughcough*
I'm not sure you read the entire thread Jiggy. We already mentioned selling gear at full price several posts up. We are talking about PP purchases at this point, which have a value of 0gp.
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Oh geez.The philosophy behind restructuring level 1 characters before they are 'locked in' to being level 2 has always been a 'complete' redo.
Let them have a different wand. It's not a big deal.
Its a little abusable. Blow all your charges on that wand of CLW, switch it out to a fully charged wand of infernal healing at level 2.
Mind you, its not THAT much worse than turning the pregens upside down and shaking them for pocket money.
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Its a little abusable. Blow all your charges on that wand of CLW, switch it out to a fully charged wand of infernal healing at level 2.
I agree - but such abuse is so petty and small that it is rendered innocuous. Most (all?) level 1 scenarios are simple enough that you'd actually have a hard time blowing all your charges.
At level 1 most new players are scrambling for something that they like and allowing such changes may make a difference for their long term enjoyment. We should error more in the direction of benefiting these new players rather than worrying about the couple rotten eggs that are trying to get free wand casts during their first level.
But that's just my humble opinion.
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I'd assume any such swap would leave you with the same number of charges.
Oh geez.The philosophy behind restructuring level 1 characters before they are 'locked in' to being level 2 has always been a 'complete' redo.
Let them have a different wand. It's not a big deal.
Its a little abusable. Blow all your charges on that wand of CLW, switch it out to a fully charged wand of infernal healing at level 2.
Mind you, its not THAT much worse than turning the pregens upside down and shaking them for pocket money.
That seems like a fair solution.
In my case, I'd have to consider if the player in question is new to PFS or not (like it's their -1 or -2). If yes, OK. No worries, we've all made some bad choices/decisions in the beginning. If not a newbie, well...they should know better. Although I say with a caveat that if the wand is still unusued, I really don't see a problem with changing it out at first level regardless of player experience.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I've burned 30ish charges off of mine gathering information , telling my summoned friends to "go around the back", a few overly friendly forest inhabitants to "Spit the fighter out. Do iiiiiiiiit" , telling the cave bears to "eat the one with the skull on his head first" and having friendly chats afterwards over pots of honey.I think the problem is that the wand was purchased with PP (speak with animals .... why?)
Yeah... but at level 1, as the first wand...oh well, my hunter had a lot of fun with wild empathy, so I really should not judge.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Its a little abusable. Blow all your charges on that wand of CLW, switch it out to a fully charged wand of infernal healing at level 2.
I agree - but such abuse is so petty and small that it is rendered innocuous. Most (all?) level 1 scenarios are simple enough that you'd actually have a hard time blowing all your charges.
At level 1 most new players are scrambling for something that they like and allowing such changes may make a difference for their long term enjoyment. We should error more in the direction of benefiting these new players rather than worrying about the couple rotten eggs that are trying to get free wand casts during their first level.
But that's just my humble opinion.
That would basically, effectively end up as "after you have earned 2 PP, you can use a full wand of CLW per scenario until you reach level 2".
I think that the level 1 retraining rule is a good rule, especially to speed up character generation with new players, but it is already quite ripe for abuse.
Writing exceptions for the rules regarding fame purchases, makes the game more complicated, with very little payoff.
To be honest, I see no terrible reason to prevent new players from using this trick, of course the issue becomes much more complicated one players buy scrolls with a number of castings on them.
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As was stated, you have rule confirmation. You can sell back 100% and 2pp wands are worth 0 gold. That is the BTB answer.
That being said, I agree with the others, it's reasonable to let them trade the wand for another wand with the same charges, especially if they're rerolling a class that can't use the wand.
If you smell abuse, then just lay the law down lol. It's usually pretty obvious when someone is trying to exploit your leniency, nip it in the bud.
Also as was stated, each PC should have his own CLW wand for someone to use on them. He'll get 2pp at the end of the next scenario too.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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That would basically, effectively end up as "after you have earned 2 PP, you can use a full wand of CLW per scenario until you reach level 2".
Its a little abusable. Blow all your charges on that wand of CLW, switch it out to a fully charged wand of infernal healing at level 2.
I agree - but such abuse is so petty and small that it is rendered innocuous. Most (all?) level 1 scenarios are simple enough that you'd actually have a hard time blowing all your charges.
At level 1 most new players are scrambling for something that they like and allowing such changes may make a difference for their long term enjoyment. We should error more in the direction of benefiting these new players rather than worrying about the couple rotten eggs that are trying to get free wand casts during their first level.
But that's just my humble opinion.
As I suggested, swapping for a different 2PP wand with the same charges makes sense.
Beyond that though, you'll have a lot of trouble blowing through a full wand per scenario at first level. Maybe if you're playing up and doing nothing but healing. Otherwise, there just aren't enough hit points around.
I don't mind the change, but even this rule can be slightly abused (exchanging your cure wand for something you don't use quite as often and buy a new cure wand prior to leveling your character).
Obviously not a huge advantage, but after using 24 charges of my wand of CLW in halls of the flesh eaters.. it doesn't seem quite as far fetched (my character was level 2 at the time, and the others didn't have their happy stick yet) to use the chance to exchange that partially used wand for a wand of bless weapon - a spell I would like to have handy, but never actually use until I need it.