touch attack question


Advice


Do touch attacks require a free hand? Can a guy with a weapon and shield pull off a touch spell?


yes touch spells require a free hand, or an unarmed attack should you choose to deliver them in such a manor, though note that using an unarmed attack is against normal AC not touch


If you go the two handed weapon route do you count as having an available free hand for touch purposes?


as long as the touch happens on your turn its a free action to ungrip, then you do the touch attack, then free action to re grip the weapon


Not if you're actively wielding the weapon, but you can wield and unwield as a free action - anytime you need to cast a spell, you unwield, cast the spell, deliver the touch spell (as part of the cast action), and rewield before your action ends. (Barring special circumstances like heavy encumbrance, you can usually hold a two-handed weapon in one hand without penalty.)


You also can hold (but not wield) a weapon with your shield hand when it's a light shield but not a heavy shield, so presumably if you have a light shield, you can move your weapon to your shield hand, cast your spell, touch the enemy, then re-grip your weapon with your weapon hand - though this is more problematic (letting go and regripping a 2H weapon are free actions, but switching hands might not be).


@ DM_Blake

Well, if he's using a light shield, he's probably not using a 2-hand weapon. Also,

3.5 D&D FAQ 6/30/09 page 11 wrote:

:

Q: My DM says that my cleric has to drop his morningstar to cast spells. Is he right?
A: Yes and no. To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, you must gesture freely with at least one hand. (PH 140) A cleric (or any caster, for that matter) who holds a weapon in one hand and wears a heavy shield on the other arm doesn’t have a hand free to cast a spell with a somatic component (which includes most spells in the game). To cast such a spell, the character must either drop or sheathe his weapon.

Another simple option is for the cleric to carry a buckler or light shield instead of a heavy shield. The buckler leaves one hand free for spellcasting, and you don’t even lose the buckler’s shield bonus to when casting with that hand. The light shield doesn’t give you a free hand for spellcasting, but since you can hold an item in the same hand that holds the light shield, you could switch your weapon to that hand to free up a hand for spellcasting. (You can’t use the weapon while it’s held in the same hand as your shield, of course.) The rules don’t state what type of action is required to switch hands on a weapon, but it seems reasonable to assume that it’s the equivalent of drawing a weapon (a move action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity)

I know it's 3.5 FAQ, but it should still be valid.


galahad2112 wrote:

@ DM_Blake

Well, if he's using a light shield, he's probably not using a 2-hand weapon.

I don't think the OP asked about 2H weapons.

Your FAQ is good, but 3.5 FAQs don't hold much water in the Pathfinder Rules Questions forum. However, it's always nice to know where current rules and their FAQs had their roots.

The main clarification in the Core Rulebook is the definitions of Heavy and Light shields in the Equipment chapter. Heavy shields say your shield hand cannot be used for anything else, light shields let you carry things but not wield weapons.

The only sticking point is whether or not it's a free action to switch hands with your weapon - if it is, then the OP's question is easily answered. If not, then he probably cannot do it. For me, the 2H FAQ (from Paizo) which says it's a free action to release/re-grip a 2H weapon is close enough, though not quite applicable, so I let it apply. Some GMs might not. Your 3.5 FAQ says it would be a move action, which means it's impossible to do it in a single round and cast anything other than a quickened spell and you'll be unarmed until your next round so no AoOs, either.

Maybe that's fair, maybe not. But I don't think there's a specific ruling (certainly not one that I know of) from Paizo on this.

As a little bit of cheese: Each round that I'm swinging my sword, I end the round by using a free action to grip it with my shield hand (now I'm holding it with two hands). On my next round, I release my shield hand as a free action, attack with the weapon, and grip it again with my shield hand and end my turn. Or I release my weapon hand as a free action, cast a spell, then grip my sword again as a free action.

This shenanigan is fully possible by the Paizo FAQ with a 2H weapon and, while the FAQ doesn't specify 1H weapons, there is no reason it would take LONGER to release/re-grip a 1H weapon so it should apply the same way. This lets me decide each round, at the start of my round, do I want to melee attack or cast as spell, without having to worry about what kind of action it is to switch my weapon to my shield hand.

Of course, during the rest of the round I am holding my sword with both hands but cannot wield it because of my shield, so I cannot make AoOs with the sword - but fortunately I can still make them with my (spiked) shield.

Me, I don't require my players to use this cheese; I just let them switch hands with the same action type that releasing/re-gripping requires.


Zolanoteph wrote:
Do touch attacks require a free hand? Can a guy with a weapon and shield pull off a touch spell?

See

LAY ON HANDS WITH SHIELD
And
SHIELDS AND SPELLCASTING

these should help


Ah, gotcha, you were just referencing the 2-hander because it has been clarified for action economy. Good deal.

Sovereign Court

You can always remove 1 hand from the 2handed weapon as a free action, cast a touch spell, and put your hand back on the weapon as a free action, and then deliver the touch spell via an attack with the 2handed weapon. The only difference is you'll have to meet their standard AC and not their touch AC but you'll get to add your weapon and strength damage.


Kysune wrote:
You can always remove 1 hand from the 2handed weapon as a free action, cast a touch spell, and put your hand back on the weapon as a free action, and then deliver the touch spell via an attack with the 2handed weapon. The only difference is you'll have to meet their standard AC and not their touch AC but you'll get to add your weapon and strength damage.

Yeah, you're right, you can always do that - if you're a Magus with the Spellstrike class ability. Maybe someone else out there has some other class ability for that, but right now I can't think of another one.

For everyone else, you cannot always do this. In fact, you cannot ever do this.

Sovereign Court

Sorry, I was a bit off. If you have Improved Unarmed Strike you can make a normal attack, deal damage + Str mod, and not provoke an AoO while delivering a spell charge.

CRB - Combat section wrote:


Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

So in short, you're right DM_Blake that someone can't deliver a spell normally through a manufactured weapon unless they are a Magus or have the Conductive? weapon enchantment, I believe, on their weapon to do so.

BUT, anyone can can a touch spell, deliver an unarmed strike targetting normal AC, and deal damage along with a touch spell instead of just aiming for touch AC and doing spell damage only.

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