Point Blank Arrow to the Eye


Advice


Okay, so our party catman decided to stick his head in an arrow hole and got an arrow to the eye.

Point Blank.
To the Eye.
From a composite longbow (str +2).

So...the rules state that he gets some...extremely minor penalties and such, but he took a g*~$&$ned arrow to the eye!

HEEEEEEELP!


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He takes damage. The end.

The rules cover it just fine.


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I would suggest this.

Called Shots

Otherwise your left with GM ruling.


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How exactly he get shot in the eye?

Anyways

A) There is no body part damage in standard PF, so He just get the damage and his eyes are just fine.

B) You use the called shot optional rule for it.


Flat-footed AC, no range penalties, Point-Blank Shot feat bonuses if applicable...

It still has a chance to miss, which could be attributed to knocking the arrow wrong and misfiring.


There are some 3pp that cover specific injuries for critical hits. You might consider referencing one of them.


ya the rules arnt into debilitating characters for long periods, its seens as not fun and i would agree. laugh at him, perhaps give him half the blind penalty for a time and move on

Sczarni

The amount of "damage" is often based of character's "hp". People often think that weapon hits cause direct damage. They might not. It depends solely how GM interprets it. Character with 50 hp, receiving 5 damage could be interpreted as being simply bruised or receiving minor cut.

If arrow did 10 damage, to 9 hp rogue, the attack was deadly disastrous hit. If it did 5 damage, to 50 hp rogue, it could be interpreted as hitting him in the ear or simply slicing his skin a bit, nearly hitting his eye.

Damage and hp can be re-fluffed if they don't make sense in specific situations.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I say make him blind for awhile or at least from the one eye at least until he finds a cleric or something to cast like restoration or remove blindness maybe. Now he has a new quest. I often have fun with spontaneity.


Unless you were using called shot rules he didn't get "hit in the eye". He just got hit.

Here is a snippet of the called shot rules:

Quote:

Eye

Eyes include whatever organs a creature uses to see. At the Gamemaster's discretion, a called shot to the eye can also target sensory organs such as antennae, potentially negating abilities like blindsense. Generally, a creature can’t be blinded until it has lost all vision in all of its eyes. Creatures with five or more eyes take no penalties from called shots to their eyes until they’re blinded in enough eyes to bring them down a single functional eye, but can still be blinded in that eye by a critical hit or debilitating blow. Called shots to the eye are challenging (–10 penalty).

Called Shot: A called shot to the eye gives all of the target’s foes concealment against its attacks for 1 round and gives it a –2 penalty on Perception checks. If the creature only has one functional eye prior to the called shot, it is blinded for 1 round instead.

Critical Called Shot: A critical hit to the eye costs the target sight in that eye for 1d4 minutes. The target also suffers the effects of a called shot to the eye for that duration.

Debilitating Blow: A debilitating blow to the eye destroys that eye, causes blindness until the condition is removed with a remove blindness/deafness spell or similar effect, and deals 1d6 points of bleed damage. A successful Reflex saving throw reduces this to 1d4 hours of loss of sight in that eye and eliminates the bleeding. The target also suffers the effects of a called shot to the eye for 2d6 minutes.

Sovereign Court

There's alot of advice stating that RAW trumps reasonableness.

They'd likely also say that someone who stabs himself in the forehead with a dagger only does 1d4 damage to oneself.

If someone is looking down the barrel of a gun or down an arrow hole or such, it's well within the GM's right to say the eye is destroyed or injured. Or that when you directly expose such a vulnerable body part to damage (dunk your head in lava and "only" suffer 2d6 damage for partial exposure? Shyeahhh, right..) the GM might treat it as a automatic crit. Or even a CdG... make a fort save against the resulting damage or instantly die.

Or coming up with something else entirely. That's the point of having a GM- to adjudicate things exactly like what's asked about in the OP. Maybe you don't WANT to inflict permanent crippling effects; then you can say the damage dealt represents the PC jerking just enough at just the right time to spare the eye and take it across the cheek or such.

Citing what is or is not RAW is not going to help answer the question; the answer is "whatever the GM wants" when RAW leaves resolution to the GM.


so basically, we're level 1. the ranger in question has 12 hp (10+2 constitution) and took 11 damage from said hit. it WAS a called shot, and I agree with Lunchbox's assessment. In my mind, if it can do a fair amount of damage to an EYE, then it gets blinded, unless the eye is like stone or something like that. the PF rules for eyes are SO lenient


I've taken several cuts to the forehead over the years, and let me tell you, even the worst of them wasn't 4 damage unless you count the subsequent bleeding. So dagger to the skull is a bad example.

Yes, it's up to the GM. OP is the GM, the answer is whatever you want. If OP is just another player, I dunno, why you want to cripple your party mate? GM's already made up his mind.

But the question is "rules don't cover this situation, what do I do?" the answer is "RAW totally covers the situation, you're just not happy with how it does". And then tells you to do whatever you want to do anyway.


There is a crit card called "eye patch for you" Max damage, 1d2 Con drain, -4 on all sight based Perception and Ranged combat rolls.


If you want micro-detail in what is injured how by who and in exact positions, play Dwarf Fortress.

HP is PURPOSEFULLY an abstract thing.


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deusvult wrote:
They'd likely also say that someone who stabs himself in the forehead with a dagger only does 1d4 damage to oneself.

Probably. The human forehead is quite sturdy and you're not automatically going to succeed in pushing a dagger through it, especially your own forehead where involuntary processes will work to reduce the force you exert. It's quite likely that the dagger would skitter along the bone rather than going through, leaving you with a nasty gash but no penetration.

( :p )


Wildfire Heart wrote:
the PF rules for eyes are SO lenient

PF may not be the game for you if you're looking for permanent blinding and lopped off limbs. Several systems, like warhammer and rolemaster have very comprehensive and gory critical damage systems.

That said did you ACTUALLY read the called shot section?

"Debilitating Blow: A called shot that deals half the creature's hit points of damage (minimum 50) or more (whether a critical hit or not) results in a debilitating blow that has extra effects."

"Debilitating Blow: A debilitating blow to the eye destroys that eye, causes blindness until the condition is removed with a remove blindness/deafness spell or similar effect, and deals 1d6 points of bleed damage. A successful Reflex saving throw reduces this to 1d4 hours of loss of sight in that eye and eliminates the bleeding. The target also suffers the effects of a called shot to the eye for 2d6 minutes."

"the ranger in question has 12 hp (10+2 constitution) and took 11 damage from said hit."

Last time I looked, 11 is 1/2 or more of 12...


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graystone wrote:

That said did you ACTUALLY read the called shot section?

"Debilitating Blow: A called shot that deals half the creature's hit points of damage (minimum 50) or more (whether a critical hit or not) results in a debilitating blow that has extra effects."


Malag wrote:

The amount of "damage" is often based of character's "hp". People often think that weapon hits cause direct damage. They might not. It depends solely how GM interprets it. Character with 50 hp, receiving 5 damage could be interpreted as being simply bruised or receiving minor cut.

If arrow did 10 damage, to 9 hp rogue, the attack was deadly disastrous hit. If it did 5 damage, to 50 hp rogue, it could be interpreted as hitting him in the ear or simply slicing his skin a bit, nearly hitting his eye.

Damage and hp can be re-fluffed if they don't make sense in specific situations.

There's a limit to the amount of re-fluffing you can do though; it's clear that hp damage does represent an actual amount of static physical harm.

For example, falling 50 feet does 5d6 damage. This is often instantly lethal for the vast majority of NPCs, and survivable without even going negative for PCs with a few levels under their belts. They take the same damage whether they fell beside a rocky cliff and you claim they broke their fall with lots of brush, or if they were dropped in a vacuum chamber. A CL 10 fireball does enough damage to slag half an inch of stone and convert almost anyone to ash, but a high level adventurer that's utterly helpless and entirely exposed to it can survive the blast with some scorch marks.

Characters do actually become more and more resistant to harm at higher levels, and are absolutely superhumans (supercatmans, whatever) after 5th level or so. Embrace this. :)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

You could treat it as a coup de grace:

Core Rulebook wrote:

Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace (pronounced “coo day grahs”) to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.

You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace.

Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents.

You can't deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits. You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to “find” the creature once you've determined what square it's in, and one to deliver the coup de grace).


Jaunt wrote:
graystone wrote:

That said did you ACTUALLY read the called shot section?

"Debilitating Blow: A called shot that deals half the creature's hit points of damage (minimum 50) or more (whether a critical hit or not) results in a debilitating blow that has extra effects."

Yep, I'm aware of that. If he's going to houserule extra effects, he might as well scratch out the "(minimum 50)". Why make something from scratch when removing two words does what he wants? It seems to do what he wants done after all.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hell, you could make the attack deal 50 damage if you wanted to represent a truly debilitating blow.

I think the idea is that even a dumb adventurer would - at the level that an arrow would deal trivial damage - have instinct and reflexes to turn that arrow into a damaging but not deadly blow.

RAW, the damage is somewhat minimal. You can say that instinct took over or that the arrow was in too small of a mechanism to fire an extremely powerful blow and still fly straight. Or you can say that it did 50 damage and blinded the character. That's fine. That's why we play with DMs and not with robots. That's why D&D isn't just a video game.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Skull and Shackles handles this too:

Skull & Shackles Player's Guide wrote:

PEG LEGS & EYE PATCHES

This optional rules system gives GMs a way to assign scars and major wounds to their PCs. Before implementing this system, consider these rules carefully. Major wounds can have major effects upon play, and some groups may not appreciate such debilitations, preferring the threat of death and an unscarred resurrection over a thematic crippling.
These rules are a variation on the optional massive damage rule found on page 189 of the Core Rulebook.
Whenever a character takes damage equivalent to massive damage, he must make a successful DC 15 Fortitude save or be reduced to –1 hit points and gain a permanent debilitating scar or handicap. These effects are randomly determined by rolling 1d20 on the table below. Effects are permanent and cumulative, though the GM should reroll results that seem too crippling or don’t make sense—such as a character losing a hand two or three times. The regenerate spell heals scars and restores lost limbs, removing both positive and negative effects.
Rules for eye patches, peg legs, and prostheses to cover injuries and replace lost limbs may be found in Pirates of the Inner Sea.
d20 Battle Scar or Amputation
1–5 Minor scar—interesting but otherwise cosmetic
6–8 Moderate scar—cut on face (+1 bonus on Charisma-based skill checks for first scar only, consider subsequent cuts as a major scar)
9–10 Major scar—severe cut on face (–1 penalty on
Charisma-based skill checks**)
11–14 Loss of finger (for every 3 fingers lost, –1 Dex)
15–16 Impressive wound (–1 Con)
17 Loss of eye (–4 penalty on all sight-based Perception checks)
18 Loss of leg (speed reduced to half, cannot charge)
19 Loss of hand (cannot use two-handed items*)
20 Loss of arm (–1 Str, cannot use two-handed items*)
* Losing a single hand or arm does not affect a spellcaster’s ability to cast spells with somatic components.
** At the GM’s discretion, characters with major scars may also be granted a +1 bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate checks against other pirates, as the scars of battle are much admired by pirates.

Community & Digital Content Manager

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Changed thread title.

Sczarni

Aratrok wrote:


There's a limit to the amount of re-fluffing you can do though; it's clear that hp damage does represent an actual amount of static physical harm.

For example, falling 50 feet does 5d6 damage. This is often instantly lethal for the vast majority of NPCs, and survivable without even going negative for PCs with a few levels under their belts. They take the same damage whether they fell beside a rocky cliff and you claim they broke their fall with lots of brush, or if they were dropped in a vacuum chamber. A CL 10 fireball does enough damage to slag half an inch of stone and convert almost anyone to ash, but a high level adventurer that's utterly helpless and entirely exposed to it can survive the blast with some scorch marks.

Characters do actually become more and more resistant to harm at higher levels, and are absolutely superhumans (supercatmans, whatever) after 5th level or so. Embrace this. :)

To be honest, I hate the concept of being a super-human. I know my players would also. They prefer realism over being super-hero's, but that's personal preferences, so I tend to re-fluff anything that happens in more realistic way. So far, everyone enjoyed it.


okay, thanks. I realized that I'd misread the called shot (didn't see the half hp thing). thanks for the input


Wildfire Heart wrote:
okay, thanks. I realized that I'd misread the called shot (didn't see the half hp thing). thanks for the input

You didn't actually misread as there is a 50hp minimum to Debilitating Blow but ignoring that minimum is by far the easiest way to deal with it and get the kind of result you're looking for.


Malag wrote:
To be honest, I hate the concept of being a super-human. I know my players would also. They prefer realism over being super-hero's, but that's personal preferences, so I tend to re-fluff anything that happens in more realistic way. So far, everyone enjoyed it.

If it's any consolation, players are in no way superheroes until seriously high levels.

A Rifle Soldier from Rasputin Must Die, for instance, is a CR5 monster (6 levels of Fighter).

It's reasonable to assume that Soldiers, then, would be typically around lv6 Fighters, even without guns.

A Company of Soldiers would be 64 men strong, then, utilizing the rules for Troops, a CR17 Encounter

1 Squad is 16 Soldiers, which corresponds to the size of a Troop Creature (and thus adopts the type) and is CR13 Enemy; 4 such Squads, or a Company, is therefore a CR17 Encounter. From there, by grouping units together and using the rules of increasing CR by increasing numbers, you come up with some fun numbers.

4-5 Party members easily taking down a group of 64 soldiers easily (meaning APL17), is pretty impressive to normal people, but consider that Superheroes like the Avengers (6 members) take down Regiments (around 1024 creatures, and CR25) or even Brigades (almost 4100 creatures, CR29), to say nothing of Armies (1.05 million enemies and CR45) - maybe not EASILY, but they are still capable of it, meaning that they're within 5 APL of those encounters.

By contrast, your average Pathfinder character takes one look at a Regiment and runs the other way - without using Mythic rules, there really isn't any chance that a party of 4-8 lv12-15 characters are going to survive an encounter with 1000 creatures, even if said creatures are all only lv5.

Your average Pathfinder hero corresponds roughly with your average hero in a blockbuster action/adventure movie.

Sczarni

chbgraphicarts wrote:


4-5 Party members easily taking down a group of 64 soldiers easily (meaning APL17), is pretty impressive to normal people, but consider that Superheroes like the Avengers (6 members) take down Regiments (around 1024 creatures, and CR25) or even Brigades (almost 4100 creatures, CR29), to say nothing of Armies (1.05 million enemies and CR45) - maybe not EASILY, but they are still capable of it, meaning that they're within 5 APL of those encounters.

You know, I never thought of it like that, but it's slightly harder to compare PCs with Avengers. Some superheros almost can't be compared, but Captain America might be good comparison. This is some good insight. Thanks!


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Aside from the called shots there's also the Laying Waste: critical hit system which you might enjoy.

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