Retraining Draconic Bloodline to Draconic Bloodline Cost


Pathfinder Society

Sovereign Court

So I recently started up a sorcerer in a Core PFS Emerald Spire group and wanted to go Dragon Disciple, picking up the Silver Dragon blood just because I like the flavor of cold dragons, only to find out that I'm running into next to no cold damage, so my resistance has been useless, and all of the spells with multiple dice are fire or electricity.

I understand that this could change in the future levels and I've already seen a few spells that will be effective, but I was curious to see how much it would cost to retrain my bloodline into itself.

According to Ultimate Campaign:

Sorcerer: Retrain your bloodline. Doing so replaces
your bonus spells, bloodline arcana, bloodline feats, and
bloodline powers. This training takes 5 days for every
bonus feat, bloodline arcana, and bloodline power you
lose from changing bloodlines. See also retraining feats
and retraining spells known.

It takes 5 days to retrain one class feature.

According to the PFS Guide:

When utilizing these
retraining rules, you must expend wealth as outlined in
the Retraining section of Ultimate Campaign, as well as
1 Prestige Point per day of retraining since time between
scenarios is undefined.

Lastly, according to Ultimate Campaign:

Unless stated otherwise, retraining costs gp equal to 10 ×
your level × the number of days required to retrain.

Ugh, now I know I'm being that guy by preaching "RAW" but it does say "...and bloodline power you lose from changing bloodlines." which you are not losing when you go Draconic to Draconic. Personally, I think paying 5 PP to retrain "losing" my silver bloodline and gaining a red bloodline would seem fair and prevent me from having to pay 20 PP at level 4. I can also understand that it's a pretty big change to go from one to the other and that it would in fact require the full cost.

Please, share your thoughts? Any circumstances where this has happened before and was ruled? It would really help me out.

Scarab Sages 5/5 Venture-Agent, Washington—Ballard

5 Prestige and 200 gold would seem to cover you from my reading. You are simply retraining your bloodline, the same way any Sorceror would. Bloodline retraining covers bonus spells, arcana, bonus feats, and powers. You aren't speaking of changing any other class features, so I'm not sure where you're getting the 20 PP cost.

5/5

WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:
5 Prestige and 200 gold would seem to cover you from my reading. You are simply retraining your bloodline, the same way any Sorceror would. Bloodline retraining covers bonus spells, arcana, bonus feats, and powers. You aren't speaking of changing any other class features, so I'm not sure where you're getting the 20 PP cost.

I think it's 15 rather than 20, but the bloodline retraining says it takes 5 days to retrain each bonus feat, arcana and power. He's 4th level it sounds like, so has the base arcana that changes, the 3rd level power, and technically the 1st level power as well (but I could see arguments that this is the same power). The arcana and 3rd level power both change function with the change in bloodline (different element affected), so they would both need to be changed at a minimum IMO.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Oy, that's rough. The sorcerer bloodlines are pretty front-loaded. Although, since there's no difference in the claws until level 9 when they gain energy damage, I'd be comfortable saying it's still the same class feature until then, and doesn't need to be paid for when retraining. That would make it only 10 PP.

Sovereign Court

Joseph Kellogg wrote:
Oy, that's rough. The sorcerer bloodlines are pretty front-loaded. Although, since there's no difference in the claws until level 9 when they gain energy damage, I'd be comfortable saying it's still the same class feature until then, and doesn't need to be paid for when retraining. That would make it only 10 PP.

Well I've got 11 PP, and would gladly spend the 10 to retrain and start getting some bonuses to my Burning Hands and Flaming Sphere.

But that makes sense, I agreed with Kevin on 15 PP because I realized that the bonus spell doesn't change, but the claws also don't change so 10 would make sense.

I'll get a few more votes/ideas in and let my GM know, I e-mailed him earlier and said I'd be posting here and he was interested to hear the responses before we make a decision.

Although, can someone debate that staying Silver/Cold won't be that bad in a few levels and convince me to not waste the 10 PP?

4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Agent, Minnesota—St. Louis Park

Adventure in the frozen north and you wouldn't mind the /Cold.

Of the scenarios I've gone through, I can only think of one where I took Cold damage from a spell. Fire is the most common, but that also means it is the most commonly protected against.

5/5

I agree with BretI that fire is definitely the most common, both in appearance and resistance to from what I've seen.

Cold is definitely there though. My very first death in PFS was to a near max damage cone of cold... I can't say to Emerald Spire though, as I haven't read it.

Unfortunately, for multiple dice damaging spells, you don't really get anything CORE until Ice Storm and Cone of Cold that comes to mind.

Sovereign Court

Since it's highly debatable, and I agree that even though I'll resist more fire, my spells will probably face more resistance as well, I might just hold on to the 10 PP and stay Silver/Cold.

Ice Storm and Cone of Cold were the ones I saw also, and I guess they're only a few levels away, even for a Dragon Disciple.

1/5

Core is going to be tough for a cold dragon disciple. But fire is just asking for trouble too. It seems like everything resists fire after a while.

Scarab Sages 5/5 Venture-Agent, Washington—Ballard

Maar, look at Snowball and Flurry of Snowballs as well. Snowball has SR: no.

Sovereign Court 2/5

Neither of those are core unfortunately.

Lightning might be a little more promising for you as would acid, but sacrificing your concept for functionality is kind of a bummer. It should get better by the time you get to higher levels anyway.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas

Consider not needing your resist energy as a bonus, since it also means that few opponents will have energy resistance against your energy type.

Also, remember, Resist Energy and Protection from Energy are both Core spells, and on the Sorcerer spell list... At some point, you will be using the Mass version of those spells, even if it is only to give your party resistance against your own spells.

Scarab Sages 5/5 Venture-Agent, Washington—Ballard

I completely skipped over core in my reading...whoops

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Trust me, you want fire, though lightning is very useful too.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Isn't retraining your bloodline like making 100% blood transfusion?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Also an effective hangover remedy!


Maar the Volcano Monk wrote:
Although, can someone debate that staying Silver/Cold won't be that bad in a few levels and convince me to not waste the 10 PP?

Resist Energy is a bonus spell from the bloodline anyway, with a better bonus than your natural resistance, and Elemental Spell:Ice feat from Advanced Player's Guide can make any spell deal cold damage, at a +1 level cost.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Pssst, this was about Core.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

If this is about core, then you can't retrain as far as I know.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
If this is about core, then you can't retrain as far as I know.

From the new guide:

Page 20 wrote:
Core Mode characters may retrain their characters as noted on page 22 but may only utilize the three documenst listed above with full access to earned core play mode Chronicle sheets.

Retraining's actually on page 23, so I assume that's a typo. Anyway, page 23 covers the 1st level rebuild as well as using Ultimate Campaign to retrain.

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