Whirlwind Blitz (Ex): At 20th level, a mobile fighter can make a full-attack action as a standard action. He may also use the Whirlwind Attack feat as a standard action. This ability replaces weapon mastery.
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1- is there a way to make a character do a whirlwind attack at the end of a move or a charge?
2- is there a way to combine 2 weapons fighting with whirlwind attack?
thx
The Great Cleave feat allows you to move and hit multiple opponents. No exactly whirlwind attack but has a similar effect.
No answer to the fighting with two-weapons with whirlwind attack.
Whirlwind Blitz (Ex): At 20th level, a mobile fighter can make a full-attack action as a standard action. He may also use the Whirlwind Attack feat as a standard action. This ability replaces weapon mastery.
a mobile fighter can actually do that from lvl 11 with -5 on the attack roll
a mobile fighter can actually do that from lvl 11 with -5 on the attack rollWhirlwind Blitz (Ex): At 20th level, a mobile fighter can make a full-attack action as a standard action. He may also use the Whirlwind Attack feat as a standard action. This ability replaces weapon mastery.
If you're referring to this...
Rapid Attack (Ex): At 11th level, a mobile fighter can combine a full attack action with a single move. He must forgo the attack at his highest bonus but may take the remaining attacks at any point during his movement. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. This ability replaces armor training 3.
No, he can't.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
Rapid Attack (Ex): At 11th level, a mobile fighter can combine a full attack action with a single move. He must forgo the attack at his highest bonus but may take the remaining attacks at any point during his movement. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. This ability replaces armor training 3.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.Rapid Attack (Ex): At 11th level, a mobile fighter can combine a full attack action with a single move. He must forgo the attack at his highest bonus but may take the remaining attacks at any point during his movement. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. This ability replaces armor training 3.
I don't see your point, the parts you've bolded actually aid my arguement
Whirlwind: give up your attacks, make one Attack at highest BAB
Rapid Attack: give up your highest BAB Attack
You now have no attacks.
Well no; there are two orders you can activate your skills
If you activate Whirlwind Attack first, you make the attack at your highest BAB and can't move, as you've already bartered you highest BAB attack, and all itteratives.
If you activate Rapid Attack first, you can choose to either move or attack, or attack then move, My itterative becomes my new highest BAB attack. I am still making a full attack; and I am still count as making making a full attack.
I don't see anywhere in the rules that this is not legal.
Whirlwind only bars me from making any additional attacks, not from using them for actions that are not attacks. (think Bodyguard, which expends an attack of opportunity, but is not an attack of opportunity)
Well no; there are two orders you can activate your skills
If you activate Whirlwind Attack first, you make the attack at your highest BAB and can't move, as you've already bartered you highest BAB attack, and all itteratives.
If you activate Rapid Attack first, you can choose to either move or attack, or attack then move, My itterative becomes my new highest BAB attack. I am still making a full attack; and I am still count as making making a full attack.
I don't see anywhere in the rules that this is not legal.
That's not how rules work but if it flies at your table then have fun.
claming my interpartaion of the rules don't work without any evidence to back up your claims does not mean you have disproved them.
but hey, if vetoing feat/class feature combos for no reason other than you don't like them flies at your table at your table then have fun.
claming my interpartaion of the rules don't work without any evidence to back up your claims does not mean you have disproved them.
No, my quoting of the actual rules disproved them.
No, my quoting of the actual rules disproved them.
again no, Whirlwind Attacks only disallows additional attacks, not alternate uses of them.
No, my quoting of the actual rules disproved them.again no, Whirlwind Attacks only disallows additional attacks, not alternate uses of them.
No but it requires you to use your highest BAB which you give up for rapid attack.
Edit: Also, I'm done. This has been enough of a derail.
and I'm using the highest BAB I have at the time.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.Rapid Attack (Ex): At 11th level, a mobile fighter can combine a full attack action with a single move. He must forgo the attack at his highest bonus but may take the remaining attacks at any point during his movement. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. This ability replaces armor training 3.
Emphasis mine on the italics, it removes the HIGHEST BAB attack from the chain, not all but one attack. So if you get three attacks at a BAB of +11/+6/+1, you'd sacrifice the +11 attack to make the +6/+1 attacks at any time during your single movement.
Edited, for some reason my searching brought up the feat of whirlwind attacks, rather than the ability you stated.
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Whirlwind need the highest attack bonus attack, mobile fighter takes that away. You can't Pounce as that takes a charge and whirlwind is just using one weapon. (If a monk could pounce, he would have two attacks, one for each fist.)
The level 20 ability mentioned would do it.
Other than that, no, there is no way to do it that I have figured out.
Some had tried to finagle Spring Attack with Whirlwind. Some very liberal rules reading right there.
BTW. I had a weapon master Power Attack, Lung and Whirlwind.
Doublestrike (Ex): At 9th level, a two-weapon warrior may, as a standard action, make one attack with both his primary and secondary weapons. The penalties for attacking with two weapons apply normally. This ability replaces weapon training 2.
Not a charge but you can move and attack with both weapons.
darn nothing to replace the 3.5 two weapons pounce :P ok thx anyway
There might be. I don't know everything that's available by a long shot. That was just the first thing I thought of.
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This might be more apropriate for the advice forum.
However, I belive that, if you find any ability that would allow you to move as a swift action then you could still whirlwind as a full-attack action. ((A quickened "bladed dash" works or 1/day Quick runners shirt.)) ((A Magus with 'Magical Lineage Trait+ Metamagic master trait' +Quickened spell (Bladed Dash)+Whirlwind feat chain, Can accomplish this at 10th level.))
'Greater Bladed Dash' allows this to work without a single feat or trait needed, but requires a lvl14 Magus.
Both builds acquire these tricks a little too late for PFS play.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bladed-dash
This might be more apropriate for the advice forum.
However, I belive that, if you find any ability that would allow you to move as a swift action then you could still whirlwind as a full-attack action. ((A quickened "bladed dash" works or 1/day Quick runners shirt.)) ((A Magus with 'Magical Lineage Trait+ Metamagic master trait' +Quickened spell (Bladed Dash)+Whirlwind feat chain, Can accomplish this at 10th level.))'Greater Bladed Dash' allows this to work without a single feat or trait needed, but requires a lvl14 Magus.
Both builds acquire these tricks a little too late for PFS play.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bladed-dash
If you're speaking of PFS play, the quick-runner's shirt isn't useable.
As far as Rapid Attack and Whirlwind, what Diminuendo proposes seems that it works to me. The cost of using Rapid attack at all is that it gives up your highest attack.. you then get to move and do a full attack action in th same turn. Before or after moving, when you choose to perform a whirlwind attack as your full attack action, (with Dim's character example) you give up your +1 attack and perform the whirlwind at +6, which is your highest attack-bonus attack available at that time (because you gave up the +11 to do the Rapid attack in the first place).
It seems very order of operationsish and straightforward to me.
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If you have three apples, and you may only chose and use the one, then you take it away. How are you now supposed to make a pie?
(If you happen to have studied economy; It is a liquidity issue and not an issue based on result.)
The Full-attack action will happen in this order:
+11 BAB=3 Iteratives. (+11, +6, +1)
Whirlwind allows you to spin around with the highest. (+11), all other are ignored.
Rapid Attack does alot of stuff but it removes the attack at highest BAB which is +11, that means you have (+??) =nothing to spin with.
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Rapid shot is like TWF. So the comparison towards Whirlwind from Rapid shot makes no sense since rapid shot uses separate subsequent attacks during the full-round action rather than one as a base. (rapid shot adds an attack rather than substitutes one.
Rapid Shot Example. 1+1=2, but 0+1 =1 would also work.)
If you'd wanted to compare Whirlwind to something else, then 'Manyshot' (still a far stretch) comes closer to the wording of Whirlwind Attack.
Manyshot:
"Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage bonuses, such as a ranger's favored enemy bonus. Damage reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow."
It makes it clearer on what losing the attack means (you lose the feat's benefit)
Manyshot and whirlwind works the same in regard to losing the added/specific attack effects if the attack (they depend on) is removed (assuming you've declared the use of the feat)
Source:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/manyshot-combat---final
If you have three apples, and you may only chose and use the one, then you take it away. How are you now supposed to make a pie?
(If you happen to have studied economy; It is a liquidity issue and not an issue based on result.)The Full-attack action will happen in this order:
+11 BAB=3 Iteratives. (+11, +6, +1)
Whirlwind allows you to spin around with the highest. (+11), all other are ignored.
Rapid Attack does alot of stuff but it removes the attack at highest BAB which is +11, that means you have (+??) =nothing to spin with.
Except that the decision to do Rapid Attack happens first, and this takes away the juiciest apple. (It has to be decided on and its price paid first since if you take a full attack and then decide that you're rapid-attacking to be able to move as well.. its too late, you've already spent all your attacks.) So now you only have a +6 and a +1 apple. You can spend them as two attacks in a full attack, or trade one or both of them for other effects in a full attack action. You could fight with a bow and rapid shot, and suddenly have three slightly smaller apples. Or in the case we're discussing, you could whirlwind attack, munching on that +6 apple and discarding the +1 apple.
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Except that the decision to do Rapid Attack happens first, and this takes away the juiciest apple. (It has to be decided on and its price paid first since if you take a full attack and then decide that you're rapid-attacking to be able to move as well.. its too late, you've already spent all your attacks.) So now you only have a +6 and a +1 apple. You can spend them as two attacks in a full attack, or trade one or both of them for other effects in a full attack action.If you have three apples, and you may only chose and use the one, then you take it away. How are you now supposed to make a pie?
(If you happen to have studied economy; It is a liquidity issue and not an issue based on result.)The Full-attack action will happen in this order:
+11 BAB=3 Iteratives. (+11, +6, +1)
Whirlwind allows you to spin around with the highest. (+11), all other are ignored.
Rapid Attack does alot of stuff but it removes the attack at highest BAB which is +11, that means you have (+??) =nothing to spin with.
I can't remember why I ruled out that you could use Rapid Attack first. With this approach...
Btw. Unlike TWF, Rapid shot, Manyshot (I said it was a bad example) Whirlwind is not modified by haste in the regard of obtaining additional hits.
Logic speaking, I have an issue seeing a 6 BAB whirlwinding when the +11 (now at +6) can't. But rulewise, I see too little support.
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Eitherway, should the character use TWF with rapid attack, the off-hand attacks will remain since they are 'additional' while the highest BAB main attack should be removed. I don't think it would be possible to remove an off-hand attack.
I am not fully convinced yet about whirlwind + rapid attack.
And I'll never be until a Developer or a representative makes a statement about it.
I know RAI can go either way depending on GM, though it should work (somehow) considering it's a 10th-level ability.
But will you lose the first attack or the possibility to attack at the highest BAB?
I read 'forego the attack at the highest bonus' as meaning its gone for the round, which leaves the +6 as the highest bonus to use for whirlwind.
However, you could argue another interpretation that 'forego' simply means that you aren't allowed to attack with that attack, in which case you still have it (you can't use it to attack among your iteratives in a full attack, but its there). In that case, when you decide to whirlwind instead of making a normal full attack, you follow the rules text for whirlwind: giving up the +6 and +1 and whirlwinding at +11, as you're not making the +11 iterative attack, but following the special feat text.
But since the above would effectively negate the cost of Rapid Attacking, I'm more inclined to agree with Byakko. His reading makes more sense that the other interpretations here (my own included).
Arcwin, I realised the wording could imply that too, but I think thats when the combination becomes broken in my opinin
That and it compleatly invadidates the 20th level ability
No you can't combine actions
You want to make the barbarian from diablo?
But anyway...whirlwind attack and Pounce, seems to work because whirlwind attack uses a full round action, so you need to find a way to gain pounce first and then use whatever with your pounce.
Yep. Best totem barbarian 12.
Also, Sohei Monk 1/Fighter 4. The most straightforward interpretation of Sohei lets you take Mounted skirmisher at level 1, so you can take a mounted move action, then full attack.
Choosing to use the spring attack's full attack action
qualifies me to use for Whrilwind Attaack.
Spring Attack does'nt have a "full attack option". It is a full round action, but it is not in any way a full attack action.
Work up a feat tree to get Whirlwind Attack and work up the Beast Totem rage powers until you get Greater Beast Totem at level 12. You can then make a Whirlwind Attack at the end of your charge.
You can't use twf with whirlwind attack.
Been a while since I've seen this thread.