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I am really just looking to get everyone's, or at least a few opinions, on what their hardest scenario, not including modules, has been in their PFS career. Mine probably would have been the Blakros Matrimony, We had decided to play up and that was with the APL being rounded up. We were asking for a challenge and that is what we got.
I am just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on tough scenario's and why they may have been tough for you.
Blakros Matrimony was tough for my group because we had great composition but very much lacked in damage. Had 4 clerics all channeling positive energy, a wizard, paladin and an oracle. I'll admit myself being the Paladin and he is probably the only one in the group that is "optimized". Even then I try very hard to never steal the show or step on anyone's toes.
More to the point or back to it, I just want to hear what was everyone's toughest scenario and maybe a little bit about why it was tough.
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The problem with these lists (besides the highly subjective part) is not everyone wants to be spoiled on how hard a scenario is, so be warned. Another thing is every time someone says they had a hard time in a scenario, there is another who breezed through it. For example, Blackros Matrimony was a breeze for us, no problems. (I know where you had trouble playing up though, but that is something about Season 4 you will learn).
But, here are some of the famously hard ones (reasons omitted for the sake of players who havent played them), in no particular order:
pre season 4
The Dalsine Affair
The Sarkorian Prophecy
Darkest Vengeance
Rebel's Ransom
Heresy of Man series (specifically pt2,3)
No Plunder, No Pay
The Mantis' Prey
The God's Market Gamble
Rats of Round Mountain P1-2
Storming the Diamond Gate
season 4
Almost all of them, but especially: In wrath's shadow, king of the storval stairs, refuge of time, feast of sigils
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The problem with these lists (besides the highly subjective part) is not everyone wants to be spoiled on how hard a scenario is, so be warned. Another thing is every time someone says they had a hard time in a scenario, there is another who breezed through it. For example, Blackros Matrimony was a breeze for us, no problems. (I know where you had trouble playing up though, but that is something about Season 4 you will learn).
But, here are some of the famously hard ones (reasons omitted for the sake of players who havent played them), in no particular order:
** spoiler omitted **
Your reasoning makes a lot of sense and I guess it wasn't something I had considered. I was hoping to get some outside thoughts, I only know how the people in my area have done.
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I'm not going to comment on season four, or even the 2nd half of season three as many of those are widely considered at least "hard" if not tpk-machines. So, I will list what I consider challenging ones from older seasons. Keep in mind that YMMV, especially now with all the extra player options. I am referring to these based on when they were released and the character abilities available at the time. The difficulty of some of these is largely based on my experience GM'ing them.
Season Zero
#3 Murder on the Silken Caravan...Harpies, enough said!
#16 To Scale the Dragon...ever get swallowed by a Remorhaz? Don't ;-)
Season One
#31 Sniper in the Deep...this is perhaps the most deadly scenario I encountered in the first few seasons, largely because (1) most of the tables I ran decided to play up, and (2) many of them did not have a good mix of party classes. Not to mention anytime you mix combat and underwater, the PC's are nearly always unprepared.
#39 Citadel of Flame...hide a blaster-mage somewhere he can not only light-up the PC's, but they can't see or even find him while he's doing it. Oh, and flying creatures with reach weapons?!? That was a learning experience for most players
#47 Darkest Vengeance...Our first real exposure to what happens when you combine magical darkness with the special ability see in darkness
Season Two
2-02 Rebel's Ransom...between the puzzle and the world's nastiest flame oracle, this one is a doosey
2-06/07/09 Heresy of Man...just nasty
Honorable Mention
First Steps I...run the ambush correctly and it can be a tpk. Course, most of the time it is being run for new players so shame on you if you kill their character :-)
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Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment
I keep seeing Storming the Diamond Gate show up in these conversations, and it just wasn't that tough for my groups, both when I played it and when I ran it. I guess with only a 4 player group, it could be tough, but I had 6-7 at the table both times, and the final fight was epic, but not ultra difficult.
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Tide of twilight
I agree the Citadel of Flame can be rough. That damage from the lava is crazy for low levels.
In wrath's shaows has some really rough areas as well.
Run = GM
Play = player experience
OP, do you mean as a GM or Player?
If you mean GM what do you mean by tough? Hard to prep for? Difficult NPC powers to run in game?
If you meant player what do you mean by tough? Challenging? One player died? One player almost died? The knowledge checks were too hard or too varied?
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I am really just looking to get everyone's, or at least a few opinions, on what their hardest scenario, not including modules, has been in their PFS career. Mine probably would have been the Blakros Matrimony, We had decided to play up and that was with the APL being rounded up. We were asking for a challenge and that is what we got.
I am just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on tough scenario's and why they may have been tough for you.
Blakros Matrimony was tough for my group because we had great composition but very much lacked in damage. Had 4 clerics all channeling positive energy, a wizard, paladin and an oracle. I'll admit myself being the Paladin and he is probably the only one in the group that is "optimized". Even then I try very hard to never steal the show or step on anyone's toes.
More to the point or back to it, I just want to hear what was everyone's toughest scenario and maybe a little bit about why it was tough.
A good way to get this information is to read the reviews posted by people of the various scenarios. That way we don't have to have a "spoilerific" thread. Thanks!
:)
Nathan Meyers
NYC PFS GM/Player
The two that left a bad taste in my mouth (mentioned already) were
I'm not a big fan of scenarios that "forget" to include unfavourable environmental effects into account when determining CRs.
There was another scenario with an erinyes that we had trouble with (our party happened to be weak on ranged attacks) that escapes my memory at the moment.
Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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I will second My Enemy's Enemy. It can be rather brutal, especially at high tier. I think that the most difficult scenario that I have ran has to be the Ghennet Manor Gauntlet. While the boss fight isn't much, everything else about that scenario certainly is. It also has great flavor, and I have to say, my group loved it. One surprisingly deadly scenario is The Jester's Fraud. Even though it's Season 1, it does provide a real challenge.
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Run = GM
Play = player experience
OP, do you mean as a GM or Player?
If you mean GM what do you mean by tough? Hard to prep for? Difficult NPC powers to run in game?
If you meant player what do you mean by tough? Challenging? One player died? One player almost died? The knowledge checks were too hard or too varied?
Sorry that is my fault for using poor wording, my days in MMO cause me to considering playing a dungeon as running through one or running a dungeon. The wording issue should have been obvious to me and in the future I'll be sure to use the correct usage of both. In this instance I had intended to hear people's player experience but I am also open to hearing a DM's difficulties as well.
A good way to get this information is to read the reviews posted by people of the various scenarios. That way we don't have to have a "spoilerific" thread. Thanks!
:)
Nathan Meyers
NYC PFS GM/Player
I confess this was the first place I looked but it seemed rather daunting going through every Season and scenario reading the reviews for them.
With the help given by this thread though I've identified a few key scenarios I'd like to look into deeper and for those I will most definitely peruse the reviews. People spend amazing amounts of time on their reviews and I think that indicates a worthiness of the scenario.
I will second My Enemy's Enemy. It can be rather brutal, especially at high tier. I think that the most difficult scenario that I have ran has to be the Ghennet Manor Gauntlet. While the boss fight isn't much, everything else about that scenario certainly is. It also has great flavor, and I have to say, my group loved it. One surprisingly deadly scenario is The Jester's Fraud. Even though it's Season 1, it does provide a real challenge.
After what everyone has said about My Enemy's Enemy it has me wanting to play it at least once. I'll have to take a look at The Jester's Fraud, playing a Season 1 would be a nice throwback.
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There's more I could talk about, but a lot of them were just due to unlucky rolls or poor party composition, or poor character builds on my part, so I won't list them here. Others that were incredibly tough were run by GMs who didn't follow listed tactics.
The ones I don't really agree with above are In Wrath's Shadow (low tier), My Enemy's Enemy (low tier), Storming the Diamond Gate (low tier); but we either had great/risky tactics or got a bit lucky in some other way with these.
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Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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The ones I don't really agree with above are In Wrath's Shadow (low tier), My Enemy's Enemy (low...
I'll agree that at low tier, My Enemy's Enemy can be pretty easy, based on party composition. However, the tier change turns the encounter into a potential one-shot kill.
Darkest Vengeance (low tier): ** spoiler omitted **
And don't forget...
so even if you win, you can still lose!
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No mention of King Xeros? Man, that one was brutal...Oh yeah, that one was pretty bad, especially when our cleric ** spoiler omitted **
It didn't help that the group had sought advice from a local sage who had described the Deep Ethereal as the space between planets, or people. Taorm unfortunately misunderstood that (8 in intelligence) and took it quite literally that there was this massive gulf of space between people. He then proceeded to cling to his team mates, being very careful not to let too much of the Space Between come in between them. The he was attacked by creatures from the Space Between....
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Murder on the Throaty Mermaid with about 10 minutes prep time.
Think I wove a pretty tangled weave of lies and suspicion since I had the group going back to multiple people multiple times to ask them overlapping questions. But by far the hardest scenario I've run mostly because of the lack of advanced prep time.