paizo.com Recent Posts in The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildpaizo.com Recent Posts in The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal build2015-03-18T17:14:52Z2015-03-18T17:14:52ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildnoralhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#332018-12-23T15:03:37Z2018-12-23T14:59:01Z<p>Hello,
<br />
Ever thought about a dex based character with Dervish Dance? </p>
<p>Maybe even a bard level of Dawnflower Dervish to use the move action for battle dance? </p>
<p>That would also reduce the need for high strength and Sohei would gain his Wis to AC and CMD with a wand of mage armor?</p>
<p>Great build by the way. :-)</p>Hello,
Ever thought about a dex based character with Dervish Dance?
Maybe even a bard level of Dawnflower Dervish to use the move action for battle dance?
That would also reduce the need for high strength and Sohei would gain his Wis to AC and CMD with a wand of mage armor?
Great build by the way. :-)noral2018-12-23T14:59:01ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildclaudekennilolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#322017-08-04T21:01:46Z2017-08-04T21:01:46Z<p>As I already stated in what you quoted, I personally disagree with that. If you feel otherwise, then you can go with the already suggested alteration until it does work. </p>
<p>You really didn't need to necro such an old thread to make a point that was already made and alternatives already given for that point.</p>As I already stated in what you quoted, I personally disagree with that. If you feel otherwise, then you can go with the already suggested alteration until it does work.
You really didn't need to necro such an old thread to make a point that was already made and alternatives already given for that point.claudekennilol2017-08-04T21:01:46ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildSir Thugsalot (alias of Mike Schneider)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#312017-08-04T02:41:06Z2017-08-04T02:41:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">claudekennilol wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Secane wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">claudekennilol wrote:</div><blockquote>As you've guessed, his mount is a wolf, and this choice is because this Animal Companion is also on the Cavalier's mount list</blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Cavalier wrote:</div><blockquote>Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid’s animal companion, using the cavalier’s level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. <b>A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf</b>, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts.</blockquote><p>I'm only pointing this out, as PFS is very restrictive on animal companions. Options that are "Let the GM decided" don't work in PFS.
<p>So I noticed that wolf is mentioned to be on the Cavalier's mount list. However, that is only so for small-race characters.
<br />
If your going with a human, you won't be able to pick a wolf on cavalier levels, as a medium sized race like a human can only pick a camel or a horse.</p>
<p>The build still works if a small race, like a halfling or Wayang, as they do qualify for a wolf mount. </p>
<p>In any case, if your going to get a Worg, the build can still easily go with a horse till lv 4, then grab the Worg. Which don't care about races or race size. </blockquote>Undersized Mount should take care of that. It's obvious the restriction is in place due to size. If a wolf or pony is selectable by a small rider, then a wolf or pony should be able to be selected by a medium rider with the Undersized Mount feat. You're welcomed to disagree, but I feel that the wording of Undersized Mount together with the legal choices for Cavaliers overcome this restriction. Let's look at the pertinent bits.<div class="messageboard-quotee">Undersized Mount wrote:</div><blockquote>Benefit: <b>You can ride creatures of your size category</b>, although encumbrance or other factors might limit how you can use this ability.</blockquote></blockquote><p>(Necro'ing this because it showed up in a search while browsing for mounted options...)
<p>Being able to <i>ride</i> a creature, and having said creature rendered a kosher divine-bond/companion-type "mount"...are two entirely different things.</p>
<p>I'll have to agree with Secane here (and similar arguments in Rules have also come down this way): In PFS, you'd need to be a small race in order to pull the progrssion off as depicted in the build. (In your case, it's a moot point since you've already traded out for the worg.)</p>claudekennilol wrote:Secane wrote: claudekennilol wrote:As you've guessed, his mount is a wolf, and this choice is because this Animal Companion is also on the Cavalier's mount list
Cavalier wrote:Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid’s animal companion, using the cavalier’s level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium...Sir Thugsalot (alias of Mike Schneider)2017-08-04T02:41:06ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildclaudekennilolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#302015-11-20T16:32:05Z2015-11-20T16:32:05Z<p>In case anyone cares Pack Flanking is now a combat feat so it works with Brawler's Cunning.</p>In case anyone cares Pack Flanking is now a combat feat so it works with Brawler's Cunning.claudekennilol2015-11-20T16:32:05ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildclaudekennilolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#292015-10-14T19:12:44Z2015-10-14T19:12:44Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">666bender wrote:</div><blockquote><p> you will miss the lvl 8 animal extra foci and sone REALLY strong buffing spells.
</p>
how is the level 12 character that dipped 1-2 max VS the ping pong?
<br />
you gain a lot more feats but lose spells, special powers and animal foci.... i dont know...
<br />
</blockquote><p>For PFS, play stops at lvl 11—so that's not as big a worry. If I were to play this kind of character in a long lasting game, I would probably stick to straight hunter to get access to buffs. That being said, by the time those higher level buffs come into play, you can afford scrolls. A caster level check will be relatively simple to make. And because of how PFS handles scrolls, a second level scroll is an auto-pass for a level 3 hunter. (because it's a 2nd level druid scroll which is a third caster level spell) So even though the hunter isn't high enough to cast 2nd level spells at third level, as long as he has 12 wisdom he can use a scroll without rolling.
<p>So yes, I do give up access to higher level spells and to the second animal focus at level 8, but what I trade away for it is an incredible martial prowess that's hard to contend with. (and like I said, spell access can just be circumvented by buying scrolls for spells you know you'll want)</p>666bender wrote:you will miss the lvl 8 animal extra foci and sone REALLY strong buffing spells.
how is the level 12 character that dipped 1-2 max VS the ping pong?
you gain a lot more feats but lose spells, special powers and animal foci.... i dont know...
For PFS, play stops at lvl 11--so that's not as big a worry. If I were to play this kind of character in a long lasting game, I would probably stick to straight hunter to get access to buffs. That being said, by the time those higher...claudekennilol2015-10-14T19:12:44ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal build666benderhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#282015-10-14T18:31:24Z2015-10-14T18:31:24Z<p>you will miss the lvl 8 animal extra foci and sone REALLY strong buffing spells.
<br />
how is the level 12 character that dipped 1-2 max VS the ping pong?
<br />
you gain a lot more feats but lose spells, special powers and animal foci.... i dont know...</p>you will miss the lvl 8 animal extra foci and sone REALLY strong buffing spells.
how is the level 12 character that dipped 1-2 max VS the ping pong?
you gain a lot more feats but lose spells, special powers and animal foci.... i dont know...666bender2015-10-14T18:31:24ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildclaudekennilolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#272015-10-14T18:23:42Z2015-10-14T18:23:42Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">666bender wrote:</div><blockquote><p> great post!
</p>
how are you taking Sohei ? Worg force you to be NN - not lawful, so no monk.
<br />
</blockquote><p>You're right, but alignment isn't locked down to Monks like it is to Paladins. The classes would need to be rearranged so that Monk is taken earlier—or would have to retrain the worg each time he leveled into Monk. The only thing a monk loses when his alignment changes is the ability take more Monk levels—he keeps everything the class gives him.
<p>While shady, it's not against the rules to change your alignment so there's nothing actually keeping someone from changing alignments to take a level of monk then changing back (though specifically in this case I'd lose access to my worg mount until my alignment shifted back to true neutral).</p>
<p>That being said I did forget that little caveat when coming up with this. I do think it'd be pretty awesome to work into the character's backstory that he was LN until a worg came along and convinced him to be NN in return for a companion. Like I mentioned, all of the above is technically still legal for PFS as long as you don't mind retraining your worg's tricks. And it's even more legal if you just start off as LN and pick a more powerful companion without worrying about having a worg.</p>666bender wrote:great post!
how are you taking Sohei ? Worg force you to be NN - not lawful, so no monk.
You're right, but alignment isn't locked down to Monks like it is to Paladins. The classes would need to be rearranged so that Monk is taken earlier--or would have to retrain the worg each time he leveled into Monk. The only thing a monk loses when his alignment changes is the ability take more Monk levels--he keeps everything the class gives him. While shady, it's not against the rules...claudekennilol2015-10-14T18:23:42ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal build666benderhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#262015-10-14T18:01:23Z2015-10-14T18:01:23Z<p>great post!
<br />
how are you taking Sohei ? Worg force you to be NN - not lawful, so no monk.</p>great post!
how are you taking Sohei ? Worg force you to be NN - not lawful, so no monk.666bender2015-10-14T18:01:23ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildclaudekennilolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#252015-07-17T13:19:39Z2015-07-17T13:19:39Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sheriff Bart wrote:</div><blockquote> Sorry for the necro - looking at a similar build myself - but the trait applying to hunter can only be applied if hunter is your first level, right? I am not up on the latest rules but thought traits had to be 1st level and cannot be retrained in PFS. Also, can you take monk and be neutral? </blockquote><p>As Fruian pointed out, there is nothing that says this is the case. There are only a very few feats (and maybe traits, but I can't think of any) that specifically say "this can only be chosen at level 1". The only thing Magical Knack says is "Pick a class when you gain this trait". It doesn't have any extra wording to indicate that the class you pick has to be the class you started with (or one that you currently have if you pick the feat Additional Traits).Sheriff Bart wrote:Sorry for the necro - looking at a similar build myself - but the trait applying to hunter can only be applied if hunter is your first level, right? I am not up on the latest rules but thought traits had to be 1st level and cannot be retrained in PFS. Also, can you take monk and be neutral?
As Fruian pointed out, there is nothing that says this is the case. There are only a very few feats (and maybe traits, but I can't think of any) that specifically say "this can only be...claudekennilol2015-07-17T13:19:39ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildGwen Smithhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#242015-07-16T22:17:46Z2015-07-16T22:17:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">claudekennilol wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">xeradiant wrote:</div><blockquote> I wouldn't allow you to use Escape Route in that way. You are not moving through your allies space nor are you adjacent. Other than that, it seems like your BAB might be taking a serious hit, but I didn't really do the math, so maybe I'm wrong. </blockquote>I never thought of it that way and I guess it could be interpreted that way. I've gotten this guy to level 6 and this is the first time anyone has said it might not work that way. As for the BAB, I actually don't have any less BAB than if I were a full 3/4 BAB class, so the only thing multiclassing is hurting is class ability progression—which imo all of the feats and saves make up for. </blockquote><p>You will probably have table variation, but this has been discussed at length on the boards.
<p>Whether or not you are considered "adjacent" to your mount is tricky because since you and your mount are occupy the same square. (BTW, if a GM does rule that you're not adjacent, that means bad guys can't target you and your mount with things like the Cleave tree.)</p>
<p>Now, because you and your mount occupy the same square, you are certainly in your ally's square. So the only issue becomes whether or not you and you ally can be moving through the square at the same time. In our area, most GMs will allow it. It's only situationally useful, after all, because mounts usually have enough movement to avoid AoOs anyway.</p>claudekennilol wrote:xeradiant wrote: I wouldn't allow you to use Escape Route in that way. You are not moving through your allies space nor are you adjacent. Other than that, it seems like your BAB might be taking a serious hit, but I didn't really do the math, so maybe I'm wrong.
I never thought of it that way and I guess it could be interpreted that way. I've gotten this guy to level 6 and this is the first time anyone has said it might not work that way. As for the BAB, I actually don't...Gwen Smith2015-07-16T22:17:46ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildFruian Thistlefoot (alias of Frank Kyle)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#232015-07-16T21:23:02Z2015-07-16T21:23:02Z<p>No you can magical knack any class even if it isn't your level 1. At least I've never read anything against it.</p>
<p>There is also level 2 rework to take it as well.</p>No you can magical knack any class even if it isn't your level 1. At least I've never read anything against it.
There is also level 2 rework to take it as well.Fruian Thistlefoot (alias of Frank Kyle)2015-07-16T21:23:02ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildSheriff Barthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#222015-07-16T20:22:54Z2015-07-16T20:22:54Z<p>Sorry for the necro - looking at a similar build myself - but the trait applying to hunter can only be applied if hunter is your first level, right? I am not up on the latest rules but thought traits had to be 1st level and cannot be retrained in PFS. Also, can you take monk and be neutral?</p>Sorry for the necro - looking at a similar build myself - but the trait applying to hunter can only be applied if hunter is your first level, right? I am not up on the latest rules but thought traits had to be 1st level and cannot be retrained in PFS. Also, can you take monk and be neutral?Sheriff Bart2015-07-16T20:22:54ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildclaudekennilolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#212015-04-01T21:16:40Z2015-04-01T21:16:40Z<p>And something I forgot to put in my final edit after the internet ate my first two posts...</p>
<p>I forgot to mention this in the first post, but to qualify for worg as a companion you've got to be true neutral. Specifically to qualify for worg you've got to be within one step of neutral evil and for PFS true neutral is the only legal option within one step of NE.</p>And something I forgot to put in my final edit after the internet ate my first two posts...
I forgot to mention this in the first post, but to qualify for worg as a companion you've got to be true neutral. Specifically to qualify for worg you've got to be within one step of neutral evil and for PFS true neutral is the only legal option within one step of NE.claudekennilol2015-04-01T21:16:40ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildclaudekennilolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#202015-04-01T17:50:05Z2015-04-01T17:50:05Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Krunchyfrogg wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I can't say I understand most of this thread, but I do like it! </p>
<p>Can you get around that last problem with a different stat array? Perhaps race? I would guess getting that INT to 13 could negate the need for a level of Brawler (?).</p>
<p>BTW, I think it's awesome there's a build with a ton of classes in it. While I generally like single classes better, I think it's refreshing to see a cool build with a lot of classes like this one. </blockquote><p>Yeah, it can definitely be solved with a different stat array, as heyyon is nice enough to point out in his post.
<p>I'm not so much worried about str for damage as I wanted it for my to-hit, especially when first starting off as the first three levels are very hodge-podge and don't have much character identity yet. But the strength is also more beneficial for damage for this build because you're going to be critting quite often (which gives the str more value as it has a higher bonus).</p>
<p>Until the ACG gets an update/errata'd (I know lots of stuff is getting updated so there's a chance Pack Flanking could be a combat feat), I'd go with a stat array that looks like this (assuming I'd still be human).</p>
<p>Str 14 + 2
<br />
Dex 14
<br />
Con 14
<br />
Int 13
<br />
Wis 12
<br />
Cha 10</p>
<p>This also negates the need for a level of a Brawler-Wild Child, but Martial Flexibility is still dead sexy and works well with this build (especially if you don't pick up Mounted Skirmisher from Sohei).</p>
<p>Wow..internet just ate my edit twice.. So here's the even shorter version</p>
<p>Wayang stats:
<br />
str 16
<br />
dex 12 + 2
<br />
con 14
<br />
int 12 + 2
<br />
wis 14 - 2
<br />
cha 7</p>
<p>Wayangs have good flavor and the size bonus makes up for losing the str. More real int (instead of fake int via brawler) means more skill points and languages which are always good for pfs. No need for Ant Haul (and probably not lead blades) so that frees up two spell slots. Bonus to perception is always good. Darkvision to match worg. A shadow riding a worg is thematically pleasing.</p>
<p>You lose out on the human hunter favored class bonus so worg gets fewer skills, but there aren't that many actual hunter levels anyways so they can get put into health and worg doesn't lose that many skill points (though Animal Companions get so few so it's still a loss). Lower charisma means just a bit longer before Handle Animal auto-succeeds so some unlucky rolls may suck at first.</p>
<p>Overall, a wayang seems like a really good choice for this build and shores up the only issue that is just rule-breaking instead of rule-interpretation (see above for Escape Route, though I still say that works and would love to see more discussion on it in the rules forum).</p>Krunchyfrogg wrote:I can't say I understand most of this thread, but I do like it!
Can you get around that last problem with a different stat array? Perhaps race? I would guess getting that INT to 13 could negate the need for a level of Brawler (?).
BTW, I think it's awesome there's a build with a ton of classes in it. While I generally like single classes better, I think it's refreshing to see a cool build with a lot of classes like this one.
Yeah, it can definitely be solved with a...claudekennilol2015-04-01T17:50:05ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildheyyonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#192015-04-01T12:03:10Z2015-04-01T12:03:10Z<p>Two ways to get around that Int 13 problem:</p>
<p>1) Change race. Your blowing your Human feat on Undersized Mount anyway, so why bother? Small sized guys will do just fine. Raise your Str from 10 to 15 before racials. Wayang can save you some points here as they have no str modifier. You could roll in with a 14 cheaper than a Gnome or Halfling gets to 13.</p>
<p>2) Drop to 14+2 Str. This'll free up some points to help you get to 13 Int, as well as bumping up your Wis by a bit for later casting.</p>
<p>Either way, you should remember that high Str is more of a requirement for heavy armors than it is for damage. If I raise my Str to 18, I hit with a +6 damage modifier. But... my Power Attack mod is +3. When I reach +4 BAB, my Str is still 18 and the damage modifier for it is still +6... but my Power Attack modifier is +6 now. And, worse still, I'm getting other modifiers to pile on. If I trade out 4 pts of Str, it's only +3 damage and +2 attack. The attack bonus is more the concern, but with +4 from always-on flanking and +1 from attacking for higher ground (and maybe +4 for the target being prone), you're looking pretty dang'd sexy from an attack bonus standpoint.</p>Two ways to get around that Int 13 problem:
1) Change race. Your blowing your Human feat on Undersized Mount anyway, so why bother? Small sized guys will do just fine. Raise your Str from 10 to 15 before racials. Wayang can save you some points here as they have no str modifier. You could roll in with a 14 cheaper than a Gnome or Halfling gets to 13.
2) Drop to 14+2 Str. This'll free up some points to help you get to 13 Int, as well as bumping up your Wis by a bit for later casting.
Either...heyyon2015-04-01T12:03:10ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildKrunchyfrogghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#182015-04-01T06:27:54Z2015-04-01T06:27:54Z<p>I can't say I understand most of this thread, but I do like it! </p>
<p>Can you get around that last problem with a different stat array? Perhaps race? I would guess getting that INT to 13 could negate the need for a level of Brawler (?).</p>
<p>BTW, I think it's awesome there's a build with a ton of classes in it. While I generally like single classes better, I think it's refreshing to see a cool build with a lot of classes like this one.</p>I can't say I understand most of this thread, but I do like it!
Can you get around that last problem with a different stat array? Perhaps race? I would guess getting that INT to 13 could negate the need for a level of Brawler (?).
BTW, I think it's awesome there's a build with a ton of classes in it. While I generally like single classes better, I think it's refreshing to see a cool build with a lot of classes like this one.Krunchyfrogg2015-04-01T06:27:54ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildsupervillanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#172015-03-31T22:29:47Z2015-03-31T22:29:47Z<p>Sorry :( </p>
<p>I do hope the problem gets cleared up and that you're not prevented from playing your character. Maybe your local vc will let you use Gang Up for the time being?</p>
<p>Pack Flanking is so obviously intended for the hunter and wild child brawler yet until it is fixed it would require a character with a very diluted stat array or that ignores its own class feature.</p>Sorry :(
I do hope the problem gets cleared up and that you're not prevented from playing your character. Maybe your local vc will let you use Gang Up for the time being?
Pack Flanking is so obviously intended for the hunter and wild child brawler yet until it is fixed it would require a character with a very diluted stat array or that ignores its own class feature.supervillan2015-03-31T22:29:47ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildclaudekennilolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#162015-03-31T17:32:55Z2015-03-31T17:32:55Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">supervillan wrote:</div><blockquote><p> You have a problem with Pack Flanking, in that you don't qualify for it.</p>
<p>I suspect this is another ACG edit foul up but Pack Flanking is not a combat feat as written. It is only a teamwork feat. As such Brawlers Cunning does not circumvent the explicit requirement for 13 INT.</p>
<p>I've been thinking of playing an AoO hunter build but the Pack Flanking problem dissuaded me. As written, Gang Up serves your purpose (because you count as your own ally) but it seems contrary to the intent of the feat. I do wish we could have that ACG errata. </blockquote><p>You're right, it definitely seems an oversight as it's something a Wild Child should probably qualify for. But you're definitely right. :(supervillan wrote:You have a problem with Pack Flanking, in that you don't qualify for it.
I suspect this is another ACG edit foul up but Pack Flanking is not a combat feat as written. It is only a teamwork feat. As such Brawlers Cunning does not circumvent the explicit requirement for 13 INT.
I've been thinking of playing an AoO hunter build but the Pack Flanking problem dissuaded me. As written, Gang Up serves your purpose (because you count as your own ally) but it seems contrary to the...claudekennilol2015-03-31T17:32:55ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildsupervillanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#152015-03-30T21:26:11Z2015-03-30T21:26:11Z<p>You have a problem with Pack Flanking, in that you don't qualify for it.</p>
<p>I suspect this is another ACG edit foul up but Pack Flanking is not a combat feat as written. It is only a teamwork feat. As such Brawlers Cunning does not circumvent the explicit requirement for 13 INT.</p>
<p>I've been thinking of playing an AoO hunter build but the Pack Flanking problem dissuaded me. As written, Gang Up serves your purpose (because you count as your own ally) but it seems contrary to the intent of the feat. I do wish we could have that ACG errata.</p>You have a problem with Pack Flanking, in that you don't qualify for it.
I suspect this is another ACG edit foul up but Pack Flanking is not a combat feat as written. It is only a teamwork feat. As such Brawlers Cunning does not circumvent the explicit requirement for 13 INT.
I've been thinking of playing an AoO hunter build but the Pack Flanking problem dissuaded me. As written, Gang Up serves your purpose (because you count as your own ally) but it seems contrary to the intent of the...supervillan2015-03-30T21:26:11ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildclaudekennilolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#142015-03-30T13:36:13Z2015-03-30T13:36:13Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Secane wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">claudekennilol wrote:</div><blockquote>As you've guessed, his mount is a wolf, and this choice is because this Animal Companion is also on the Cavalier's mount list</blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Cavalier wrote:</div><blockquote>Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid’s animal companion, using the cavalier’s level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. <b>A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf</b>, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts.</blockquote><p>I'm only pointing this out, as PFS is very restrictive on animal companions. Options that are "Let the GM decided" don't work in PFS.
<p>So I noticed that wolf is mentioned to be on the Cavalier's mount list. However, that is only so for small-race characters.
<br />
If your going with a human, you won't be able to pick a wolf on cavalier levels, as a medium sized race like a human can only pick a camel or a horse.</p>
<p>The build still works if a small race, like a halfling or Wayang, as they do qualify for a wolf mount. </p>
<p>In any case, if your going to get a Worg, the build can still easily go with a horse till lv 4, then grab the Worg. Which don't care about races or race size. </blockquote><p>Undersized Mount should take care of that. It's obvious the restriction is in place due to size. If a wolf or pony is selectable by a small rider, then a wolf or pony should be able to be selected by a medium rider with the Undersized Mount feat. You're welcomed to disagree, but I feel that the wording of Undersized Mount together with the legal choices for Cavaliers overcome this restriction. Let's look at the pertinent bits.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Undersized Mount wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Benefit: <b>You can ride creatures of your size category</b>, although encumbrance or other factors might limit how you can use this ability.</blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Mount (Ex): wrote:</div><blockquote> A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the cavalier's level as his effective druid level. <b>The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount.</b> <i>A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf.</i></blockquote><p>The italicized list legal choices for a cavalier based by size. The bolded says it must be a suitable mount. Since it's both a legal choice for cavaliers and it's now one that I am capable of riding and is a suitable as a mount (due to Undersized Mount), it should be a legal choice. We're supposed to look at the overall intent of the rules and how they work together, not just look at both as if they were created in a void. Again, you're welcome to disagree, but I believe the feat Undersized Mount changes the rules for cavaliers in this case, especially since wolves are still legal choices for cavaliers. And I never actually rode wolf until he "leveled up" into worg and just treated him as my Animal Companion so it never came up.
<p>About the other comments regarding Risky Striker. I didn't consider that when planning out this character, but I don't really have any feats that I would want to switch out before about level 7. A halfling could work, but as others have pointed out, a Wayang would probably make a better choice. Though, this build isn't about hitting hard, but having a higher to-hit does help. (so more str is definitely a bonus) It's more about creating AoOs for the pair of you to benefit from.</p>Secane wrote:claudekennilol wrote:As you've guessed, his mount is a wolf, and this choice is because this Animal Companion is also on the Cavalier's mount list
Cavalier wrote:Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid’s animal companion, using the cavalier’s level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a...claudekennilol2015-03-30T13:36:13ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildZedorlandhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#132015-03-30T08:41:09Z2015-03-30T08:41:09Z<p>A halfling mounted character can do just fine, but he needs some help in the damage department. I've looked at doing cavalier and inquisitor, but without scaling damage from your class, you may find the damage isn't as large as you like.</p>
<p>Risky striker fixes that pretty fast though.</p>A halfling mounted character can do just fine, but he needs some help in the damage department. I've looked at doing cavalier and inquisitor, but without scaling damage from your class, you may find the damage isn't as large as you like.
Risky striker fixes that pretty fast though.Zedorland2015-03-30T08:41:09ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildSecanehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#122015-03-30T04:28:57Z2015-03-30T04:28:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">claudekennilol wrote:</div><blockquote>As you've guessed, his mount is a wolf, and this choice is because this Animal Companion is also on the Cavalier's mount list</blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Cavalier wrote:</div><blockquote>Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid’s animal companion, using the cavalier’s level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. <b>A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf</b>, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts.</blockquote><p>I'm only pointing this out, as PFS is very restrictive on animal companions. Options that are "Let the GM decided" don't work in PFS.
<p>So I noticed that wolf is mentioned to be on the Cavalier's mount list. However, that is only so for small-race characters.
<br />
If your going with a human, you won't be able to pick a wolf on cavalier levels, as a medium sized race like a human can only pick a camel or a horse.</p>
<p>The build still works if a small race, like a halfling or Wayang, as they do qualify for a wolf mount. </p>
<p>In any case, if your going to get a Worg, the build can still easily go with a horse till lv 4, then grab the Worg. Which don't care about races or race size.</p>claudekennilol wrote:As you've guessed, his mount is a wolf, and this choice is because this Animal Companion is also on the Cavalier's mount list
Cavalier wrote:Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid’s animal companion, using the cavalier’s level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse....Secane2015-03-30T04:28:57ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildheyyonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#112015-03-30T03:30:37Z2015-03-30T03:30:37Z<p>For your race, Wayang makes a great choice. They're small and so can mount medium sized wolves, but they do not get a Str penalty. You'll probably have to invest in the Weapon Finesse tricks or accept that 16 Str is all you get, but they're pretty solid.</p>
<p>As for trickeration... You leave off a pair of really cool options, both teamwork feats:
<br />
- Precise Strike. You already count as flanking, so why not get a +1d6 damage modifier for you and your pet? Om nom nom.
<br />
- Feigning in combat... Improved Feint means you can do this as a move action. Your mount moves, you get a move, too, so feign! Why? Feint Partner and Improved Feint Partner. The former denies your target's Dex to AC for your wolf as well. Improved, though, is your engine... When you feign, your wolf gets an AoO. With Paired Opportunists, you, too, get an AoO.</p>
<p>Your turn can look like this:
<br />
Wolf moves to your target.
<br />
You use a move action to feign.
<br />
Wolf triggers an AoO from IFP.
<br />
You get an AoO, too, from PO.
<br />
Wolf attacks normally.
<br />
You attack normally.</p>
<p>4 attacks while moving is pretty sexy. For added jollies, get a high crit weapon. When you get a crit, Outflank says your allies get an AoO... and that means PO says you get one more attack... Oh, and if they stand, you get 6 attacks in a round because, you know, standing up triggers for everyone!</p>For your race, Wayang makes a great choice. They're small and so can mount medium sized wolves, but they do not get a Str penalty. You'll probably have to invest in the Weapon Finesse tricks or accept that 16 Str is all you get, but they're pretty solid.
As for trickeration... You leave off a pair of really cool options, both teamwork feats:
- Precise Strike. You already count as flanking, so why not get a +1d6 damage modifier for you and your pet? Om nom nom.
- Feigning in combat......heyyon2015-03-30T03:30:37ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildFruian Thistlefoot (alias of Frank Kyle)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#102015-03-28T22:26:01Z2015-03-28T22:26:01Z<p>Halflimgs are good despite -2 str. Risky striker makes up for the str hit.</p>Halflimgs are good despite -2 str. Risky striker makes up for the str hit.Fruian Thistlefoot (alias of Frank Kyle)2015-03-28T22:26:01ZRe: Forums: Advice: The Lone Wolf Rider - pfs legal buildXethikhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s311?The-Lone-Wolf-Rider-pfs-legal-build#92015-03-28T22:05:02Z2015-03-28T22:05:02Z<p>I feel that this sort of build could find more success with a flying mount. I assume you wanted to do a Worg for the flavor/visual, plus the Worg is better in combat and would benefit more from having the extra teamwork feats. Still, I find having the versatility of the mount being able to fly is quite powerful. If you have a caster who doesn't mind casting Fly on your mount (and if you can have feather fall ready if you are dismounted), then the Worg is probably a strong pick, too.</p>
<p>EDIT: I missed that last bit at the end about swapping Worg out. I'll keep my comment for the sake of bringing up flight, though.</p>I feel that this sort of build could find more success with a flying mount. I assume you wanted to do a Worg for the flavor/visual, plus the Worg is better in combat and would benefit more from having the extra teamwork feats. Still, I find having the versatility of the mount being able to fly is quite powerful. If you have a caster who doesn't mind casting Fly on your mount (and if you can have feather fall ready if you are dismounted), then the Worg is probably a strong pick, too.
EDIT: I...Xethik2015-03-28T22:05:02Z