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Mr Brock, why is the warcat of Rull not allowed? Dino's are allowed mamoths are allowed but you' do not allow war cats. Anything that is cool the leadership either nerfs or bans. Why should we buy new books and give money to pazio if the best things in the books are not allows in PFS which is supposed to be the marketing arm for PAnzio. At least let them be tested for a season to see if they work or not before outright banning them. War cats are farless powerful than. Many eilodons that i have seen, both are class features.
AT least PFS gives out better treasue thn the AP's .
Less banning things from new material until they are proven to be broken.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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In cases like this it is pretty useful to cite the source of the rules item in question, this creature seems to come from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Belkzen, Hold of the Orc Hordes.
Since you are not arguing to allow the CR13 version in into the game lets compare
Cat, Big
Starting Statistics
Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10; Special Attacks rake (1d4); Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
7th-Level Advancement
Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d8), 2 claws (1d6); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4; Special Attacks grab, pounce, rake (1d6).
and
Source: Hold of the Orc Hordes
Starting Statistics
Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 5; Special Attacks rake (1d4); SQ low-light vision, scent.
7th-Level Advancement
Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d8), 2 claws (1d6); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4; Special Attacks grab, pounce, rake (1d6).
It is compairable to the CRB big cat, the different stat allocations really are not that relevant but the +4 natural armor bonus really kills the idea.
Big cats are already pretty awesome, and I would be hard pressed not to take the Warcat every time, even as a hunter where the animal companion's wisdom modifier is kinda relevant.And while d20pfsrd doesn't seem to mention a racial limit, I assume that these cats are supposed to be an Orc only option.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Hmm... Its interesting, the actual creature has rend, while the AC version has rake. Compared to big cat; +3 nat armor, +2 str, -2 dex, +1 con, -4 wis, -5 cha, special abilities/attacks are all the same. It'd do more damage and have more AC/HP than a tiger, but it'd have a harder time vs reflex & will saves. I can sort of see why they'd not allow it since overall it seems a more powerful choice than big cat, which is already a combat monster.
EDIT: I would like to thank you for pointing out a huge feline for me to suggest for my wife's "tiger shaman" in my Iron Gods campaign. :) It definitely looks like something you might find in Numeria's wastelands.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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Hunter animal companions can learn skirmisher ranger tricks in place of normal tricks in place of their normal tricks. There was an FAQ for them, which ruled that the tricks can be used a number of times equal to the animal's Wis mod + 1/2 it's hit dice (min. 1).
Is this FAQ up yet? Can't seem to find it.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Hunter animal companions can learn skirmisher ranger tricks in place of normal tricks in place of their normal tricks. There was an FAQ for them, which ruled that the tricks can be used a number of times equal to the animal's Wis mod + 1/2 it's hit dice (min. 1).Is this FAQ up yet? Can't seem to find it.
Sorry, but what we got was only a rules preview, the final wording and is still out. And the errata will come out once they start shipping the second printing... which might be a while.
Hunter animal companions can learn skirmisher ranger tricks in place of normal tricks in place of their normal tricks. There was an FAQ for them, which ruled that the tricks can be used a number of times equal to the animal's Wis mod + 1/2 it's hit dice (min. 1).Is this FAQ up yet? Can't seem to find it.
Not technically a FAQ, but a preview of the errata and wording may change, but should be official enough for anyone coming from the PDT
Developer
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Mr Brock, why is the warcat of Rull not allowed? Dino's are allowed mamoths are allowed but you' do not allow war cats. Anything that is cool the leadership either nerfs or bans. Why should we buy new books and give money to pazio if the best things in the books are not allows in PFS which is supposed to be the marketing arm for PAnzio. At least let them be tested for a season to see if they work or not before outright banning them. War cats are farless powerful than. Many eilodons that i have seen, both are class features.
AT least PFS gives out better treasue thn the AP's .
Less banning things from new material until they are proven to be broken.
As a general note, it is very difficult to remove something from the campaign once it has been made available. It is very easy to add something to the campaign a little later, whether that's as a boon or as a revisited Additional Resources entry. In fact, I absolutely agree with the part I have bolded above, though I would end the sentence with "before deciding to allow them into the campaign." I think it's also fair to wait less than a season before that re-evaluation.
Even with a slightly more cautious approach, there's still a lot from each new book that enters the campaign.
The thing that jumps out at me is that access to a Warcat is *exactly* the sort of thing that I could see on a boon.
PFS will often times disallow one or two things from a source for that reason, rather than for balance per se.
Yep, this is certainly an interesting candidate for a boon. It's as though you were in the room when Mike and I were discussing the Additional Resources material for that month.
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As a general note, it is very difficult to remove something from the campaign once it has been made available.
I agree with your whole post I just had to quote this part because when I read it, I immediately thought of the spinosaurus and laughed.
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Mike and John, could you stay away from boons for this. Have Mark Seifer make a feat to get a better pet or make an archetype that specializes in
Mega-fauna.
Boons are fine for those who can go to conventions but some of us can only afford to buy books and minis from Paizo but not go to conventions.
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Mike and John, could you stay away from boons for this. Have Mark Seifer make a feat to get a better pet or make an archetype that specializes in
Mega-fauna.Boons are fine for those who can go to conventions but some of us can only afford to buy books and minis from Paizo but not go to conventions.
They could also mean a boon from a scenario's chronicle sheet (or series of chronicles), it wouldn't be the first time.
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There are also at least two scenarios (I know of one in season 5 and one in season 6) with boons that open up otherwise illegal content not just for the character that played, but for all your other characters as well, which is nice because it avoids players feeling frustrated they used the "wrong" character for a scenario.
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Anything that is cool the leadership either nerfs or bans.
Patently untrue, unless by "cool" you mean "unbalanced, broken, and/or thematically inappropriate for an organized play campaign". I understand you like this warcat, but let's not make general accusations that are not true.
Animal companions can be especially unbalancing, since they add to the action economy and can do lots of damage in a single season. I love that Mike and John have decided to evaluate this option outside of PFS before just letting it run rampant. Thanks, guys!
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it is very difficult to remove something from the campaign once it has been made available.I just had to quote this part because when I read it, I immediately thought of the spinosaurus and laughed.
I thought the exact same thing.
To be fair, Spinosaurus was a rediculously strong Animal Companion.
Technically the strongest, as by level 7 it could get upwards of a 30+ Strength (without buffs).
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Mekkis, what do you consider broken or overpowered. IMO the Warcat of Rull is neither. The only things that I have seen that are broken are the Summoner and high level gunslingers with ricochet shot. I do not even think that ricochet shot is broken it is just annoying for the GM.
IMO most of what I see on the boards as what people think is over powered is not over powered at all is that those people just prefer a low or no magic game and think because they like their games that way we all should like are games that way. I my self am on the other end of the spectrum I prefer a high powered high magic game. You should never be able to over power the GM just out think him.
As to why I think the Warcat of Rull is cool has nothing to do with the numbers but just what it looks like in the artwork. It would be nice for a mounted character but me myself would not use it for one as the mounted rules for pathfinder suck greatly.
Gm Lamplighter by that same logic you stated above all 5th level or higher magic should be banned because it does too much damage. After all
Disintegrate does 22d6 at 11th level. You are trying to limit a third of at least three classes because you find them too powerful. There are other ways to limit powerful critters other than banning them make a palyer take an archetype that trades something else in his class for a better pet take a whole PRC that is pet based more so than the Hunter.
This ban has ticked me off to the point that I am going to write to Vic and James Jacobs about it because I am tired of buying books and having the things that I like banned so that I can not use the in Pazio's Marketing game PFS and I hate boons as I can not get them because I cnat afford to goto conventions and buy products too.
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As John mentioned, PFS players do not handle having their toys taken away after the fact. As a result it's far better to be overly strict that overly liberal with allowing content. The last thing anyone wants is another SLA update situation.
The big cat is already really strong. A bigger better version isn't necessary right away. If you're buying books with the belief that the content will be whole-cloth available in PFS you're going to be disappointed a lot.
If it's a flavor-thing for you, call your big cat a warcat. That's totally allowed within the reskinning rules. Imagine what the poor folks that want a large bear companion have been going through for years. =(
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Feral, I think you are missing my main point. PFS is a marketing tool for Paizo to get new players into the game and. To market its products to stablished gamers. If Mike and John piss off established gamers that sped $100 or more a month by banning good things from new material it will hurt the bottom line of Pazio's revenue stream. I do not want to see that happen as I like Pazio's high quality new material.
I do get miffed when I buy a product to use inPFS and things are banned before they are even tested. SLA's were banned for a good reason people were gaming the system with them to get into PRC's early.
Bears should start at medium and at 7th get a size advancement. No druid, ranger or hunter would take a cub adventuring AC's are not throw away meat shields and pc's who use them as such should be punished in game by their gods for doing so.
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PFS is a marketing tool but it's not only a marketing tool. Unlike other organized campaigns (which shall go unnamed), the PFS powers-that-be are making an effort to curb the more egregious unbalancing options as they are printed. It's by no means a perfect system but it's better than the nothing.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Feral, I think you are missing my main point. PFS is a marketing tool for Paizo to get new players into the game and. To market its products to stablished gamers. If Mike and John piss off established gamers that sped $100 or more a month by banning good things from new material it will hurt the bottom line of Pazio's revenue stream. I do not want to see that happen as I like Pazio's high quality new material.
I do get miffed when I buy a product to use inPFS and things are banned before they are even tested. SLA's were banned for a good reason people were gaming the system with them to get into PRC's early.
Bears should start at medium and at 7th get a size advancement. No druid, ranger or hunter would take a cub adventuring AC's are not throw away meat shields and pc's who use them as such should be punished in game by their gods for doing so.
Might I suggest not buying material before you know how much of it will be PFS legal?
Some books will have only a very little material for players, and considering that this books is mostly about orcs, it could have ended up as an orc only option. And not even half-orcs can take those IIRC.
To end this with a constructive note, I think it would be reasonable to add the warcat to the number of animal companions unlocked by this feat (and allow hunters to use it, but that is another issue):
You have learned how to tame and ride exotic beasts.
Prerequisite(s): Handle Animal 4 ranks; Ride 4 ranks; divine bond (mount), hunter's bond (animal companion), or mount class feature with an effective druid level of 4.
Benefit(s): You can select an exotic beast from the list of monstrous mounts to serve as your animal companion or special mount. You acquire and advance this creature in the same way as the mount or animal companion detailed in the class feature used as a prerequisite for this feat. You can also dismiss the creature as dictated by your class feature.
You must meet additional prerequisites to choose a creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher, as described in each creature's entry
The warcat is compairable to the
Prerequisite(s): Diplomacy, Intimidate, or Handle Animal 5 ranks; Ride 5 ranks.
Starting Statistics
Size Large; Speed 30 ft., fly 40 ft. (average; unable to carry a rider while flying); AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 16, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 13, Cha 8; Languages Common (cannot speak); Special Qualities darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent.
7th-Level Advancement
Speed 40 ft., fly 80 ft. (average; unable to carry a rider while flying); AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6), 2 talons (1d6); Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2; Special Attacks pounce, rake (1d6).
Actually I would not mind seeing adding a couple of other creatures to the feat, and it would be pretty easy. Just add
"The Warcat of Rull is only available to characters with the Monstrous Mount Feat"|
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Lou, you are extrapolating far beyond what I said. In my view, animal companions are something to be extra cautious about, because they are not a player at the table. PFS already has time-limited scenarios and 6 players, which makes spotlight time hard to come by for each player. Not having access to this one option doesn't ruin those classes. Besides, Mike and John said that this is something they looked at, and we are not (yet) privy to their plans. I trust their judgement.
Personally, I would love to see more options like this become available through play. The obvious way is on a Chronicle for a specific scenario, but maybe the upcoming Faction Cards could be a way as well. Maybe certain options could be unlocked by playing a number of scenarios in the area: "play through X scenarios in Belkzen to gain access to the Warcat of Rull" type of thing.
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You should never be able to over power the GM just out think him.
It would be nice for a mounted character but me myself would not use it for one as the mounted rules for pathfinder suck greatly.
This ban has ticked me off to the point that I am going to write to Vic and James Jacobs about it because I am tired of buying books and having the things that I like banned so that I can not use the in Pazio's Marketing game PFS and I hate boons as I can not get them because I cnat afford to goto conventions and buy products too.
While this is fairly true, more so in homegames, GMs in PFS are to run as written. This means that they have far less control of what creatures get to do that a home game GM, where the GM is able to control CR and abilities to a much greater extent.
I like the idea of the Warcat, which John has already stated they are looking at possibly allowing via boon. He did not clarify if this wil be a convention boon, which you immediately jumped upon. There are ways to go to conventions for just the cost of travel too, like volunteering to GM. I'm going to 3 cons in the next 3 weeks for the price of parking and gas. There are several scenarios that grant boons as well, you know. This could easily fit onto one of those. As Lamplighter said in the post before this one, they might even come out with new ways to get certain boons. When you buy content as soon as it's released, you have no idea what will be legalized for PFS. This is on you as a fan of the franchise, and is not the responsibility of the PFS team to sway to the demands of the few. They look at EVERY single thing that comes out for the Golarion universe, and decide what will be allowed. Could you do that?
In 3.5 they were a mess, but now Mounted Combat rules are quite clear once you familiarize yourself with them, just like the grappling rules. Fill out your Handle Animal and Ride skills, get the Combat training tricks, and get a Military Saddle. You now have a feasible mounted character to build feats into. I've got a flying mounted character, which had no issues at all since becoming level 5. The character is now retired and looking for Seeker tier adventures.
On your last point, what will contacting Vic or James do? They don't run PFS. They leave that to John, Mike, and their team.